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Maydawn

Current status of Monks

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Monks in this game are only superificially Jackie Chan wanabees. This is a new setting with a slightly different take on numerous archetypes. Just adapt and appreciate what is there. There can be no innovation if people constantly whine about wanting the familiar.

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Monks in this game are only superificially Jackie Chan wanabees. This is a new setting with a slightly different take on numerous archetypes. Just adapt and appreciate what is there. There can be no innovation if people constantly whine about wanting the familiar.

 

Slightly different take on Monks or even Rogues?  Heh, yeah, sure. 

 

As for whinging? Wth man, you can apply that same logic to your own posts regarding xp. In that case just adapt and appreciate what is there. I'm guessing this is a min-maxer non-min-maxer outlook difference.

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Wth man, you can apply that same logic to your own posts regarding xp

I have. Theres a fine mod which reduces xp by 25%. Also, theres a fine difference between critiquing playability concerns where intended design does not match mechanical reality and making, as some in this thread do, cries against the intended design itself.

Edited by Shevek
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The Monk was always my favorite pnp and even BG style games type character. I had to pass on them for POE for all the reasons people mentioned but basically it boils down to the devs idea of a monk versus mine and seemingly every other rpg + the vast majority of fantasy fiction since the dawn of time.

 

Pretty sure the idea for unarmed monk fighters with powerful unarmed attacks comes a single source, Shaolin. All the other monks that fought, that I can think of off the top of my head, wore armor and used weapons. I've always found it strange that RPGs, ie dnd, took the concept of a Shaolin monk and mashed that into a western setting when Europe had its own fighting monks in history.

 

I've found that the PoE monk is less jarring then if they wore no armor at all and ran around like they had on full plate. I hope in upcoming sequels they keep the monks as is and don't turn them into Shaolin monks.

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The Monk was always my favorite pnp and even BG style games type character. I had to pass on them for POE for all the reasons people mentioned but basically it boils down to the devs idea of a monk versus mine and seemingly every other rpg + the vast majority of fantasy fiction since the dawn of time.

 

Not being a min/maxer, I just can't get around the whole martial artist hand to hand specialist that requires and desires taking damage and not avoiding it. This just seems a far more applicable approach to some kinda masochistic tank subclass.

 

It is all in how you think about it.   Many of the throws and other moves are a reaction to being attacked in martial arts.  Someone throws a punch or kick and they are now off  balance and overextended, and there are tons of moves that take advantage of that.   But you can't do those moves until you are attacked....    you don't have to take a hit, but you can think of the wound mechanic as avoiding the hit before exploiting the attack if you prefer ...  

 

as for the not taking damage thing...  the D&D monk never really worked that way... with an 18 dex maybe it did, but the tiny armor class bonus from leveling up was negated by enemy attackers having a higher thaco at higher levels... you were fighting naked and you got hit, a lot, until very high levels.

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Hello :)

 

I know that balance is still being worked on, devs are still getting a TON of feedback a day about pretty much anything, and this is still a work in progress. But there's one thing that's bothering me, and I posted on a couple of related topics about it, but no one seemed to pitch in, and I figured maybe it was just overlooked or something.

 

So even with the bugs, and balancing issues, I really love this game. My only real problem is the current state of monks, and I was wondering maybe I'm the only one feeling that way. Monks are my favorite RPG class. I always picture them in my mind as these awesome martial arts guys, in light / no armor, kicking and punching faces, dodging / soaking hits in a decent manner.

But in this game, they really didn't live up to my expectations. The wounds system sounds awesome on paper, but you have to get hit for it to work. Now, I can theoretically run a monk with full plate armor, but it doesn't feel like it fits the class theme, or the way I picture them in my mind, and running with light / no armor gets me killed too quickly. I can avoid getting hit, but then there's no interactive play to it without wounds.

 

I'd really love it if they had some innate per-level damage reduction, for example starting at 3 DR, and reaching 9 or 10 at max level, so they are roughly equal to a breastplate. [Only when not wearing armor of course]. Maybe a boost to endurance, so they can soak the same damage as an equal level fighter with medium / heavy armor.

 

Anyone else feels the same way ? Or maybe I'm just picturing them differently than the devs ?

 

[i just want to note, I played with a monk on hard, got as far as Defiance Bay quests and gave up eventually, feeling very weak compared to other melee classes. Went with a balanced attributes, no min-maxing, trying to focus on RP as much as possible. Had 14 constitution]

 

I'm playing exactly the same as you - RP monk on hard, no stat below 10, fine robes and some bonus items for DR and deflection. No major problems at all, and great fun.

 

I suspect the rest of your party composition may be a problem? I built a couple of companions as soon as possible (1 x rogue, 1 x cipher) and it's a cakewalk. Apart from the Ogre Mage bounty quest which pwned me about 4 times over (is Swarm of Insects bugged? I got like 200+ damage off it on every char I'm sure). But I got through it.

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I think the class works fine, it's just not up to everyone's taste. It tanks reasonably well, does plenty of damage, has very strong disables, but yes, you have to get hit.

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Monks have high to very high in all 4 categories--health, endurance, accuracy, and deflection.  Wounds and the abilities they allow are just icing on top of that.

The problem is thinking of them as AD&D monks--like several classes here, they play very different from their AD&D classes of the same name.  Chanters, for example, do very well in full plate since it doesn't slow down their songs, whereas the stereotypical bard doesn't wear more than light armor.

You just have to get past your idea of what the class should be and play it for what it actually is.

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I have always played some boring crap in RPGs similar to myself in real life - tall slim brown haired weirdo dealing magical damage while sucking at dexterity and then I decided to try something different and this is how my 19 might honest crazy philosopher monk girl was born.

 

I have never had so much classical RPG fun with any character as with this one.

 

She is amazing. Currently I am halfway through the game and I (she? we!) have dealth 2 times more damage than second highest damaging character in my team (I have Eder, Hiravias, Aloth, Durance and GMother and please note I intentionally rushed to getting all of them super early). My gal jumps in the middle of the fight with nothing but her girly fists of justice and kills everything I encounter and I am playing on Hard difficulty level while being an idiot who constantly forgets to buff team before important fights. Eder is full super tank who barely gets hit, rest of team spams bullets and spells everywhere and my girl just runs across the entire battlefield with 145HP kicking drakes, undeads, mages and animats across the floor, punching stuff so hard it explodes.

 

I cannot say a single bad word about this wonderful class.

 

Also:

1) Lore is absurdly good skill for monk as it allows to use some very low range spells or spells more delicate traditional spellcasters have problems to position with. My personal favourite is Fan of Flames from low level spells (though my lore is high enough to use much stronger ones).

2) As for secondary weapon set I strongly recommend to arm monk with two one-hand weapons, each of them dealing cut/pierce damage, this is against enemies resistant on usual crush damage done by fists. The best choice is to wield hatchet and spear here because not only they provice cut+pierce dmg but also are included in Weapons: Peasant talent so you can get +6 Accuracy both to fists and to those weapons with this single talent.

3) ...yes, two-weapons talents work for bare fists. +6 accuracy and +20% attack speed rock.

 

As for attributes I went

Might - full throuttle

Very priority - Constitution, monk cannot have extremely high defenses because then he is not hit and doesn't get wounds, but in the same time he should be resistant sooo good defenses and very high HP are the best way to go

High priority - Resolve (for deflection, dialogue options, roleplay and concentration), Dexterity (for attack speed)

Further priority - Intellect (for spells and minor skill bonuses + roleplay, maybe that's my inferiority complex but I can't play a character with low intellect :p )

 

 

dump stat: perception, I have other characters with interrupt and other sources of defenses (...monk doesn't dramatically need them to begin with). It is also the least insulting weak point of a character: 

 

a guy with low resolve - weak-minded!

a guy with low intellect - stupid!

a guy with low might/constitution - weakling!

a guy with low dexterity - awkward!

 

a guy with low perception - oh, a hero struggling with his disability (sight of a mole, hearing of a stone) against all odds :D or at worst, source of comism.

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