Damage calculation bug

[kmbogd]

I've noticed that party  get unexpected high damage from sper spider during a fight. Upon cheking the calculations, I've observed some inconsistencies. Check the computation below. Other members of my party were affected as well. Other types of spiders (ivory spiner, spear spiderling) did not react like this.

[kmbogd]

Could a moderator please move this thread from the backer support thread to the released game support thread. Many thanks.

[kmbogd]

Another issue regarding damage calculation this time with graze

 

 

 

As you can see above, I've rolled 19 pierce damage in a graze (50% of a normal damage). This means that a normal hit could be: 2*19=38. This is not the case as my max damage is displayed as 29 (it's actually higher as you can see in the second bug but still not close to 38):

 

 

 

 

One other bug is that it seems that the min damage information is not computed correctly in the character sheet (maybe even during the fights?). It includes only the bonus received from strength.

 

I have a fine estoc which has a base damage range of 16-23. The character's 20 might provides another 30% increase, confident aim provide an extra 20% to the min dmg only. Taking into account all this, the min dmg should be 16*(1+0.3+0.2)=24. The max damage should be 23*(1+0.3)=29.9.

Edited April 2, 2015 by kmbogd

[kmbogd]

Patch 1.03 does not seem to have fixed any damage calculation bugs. Please see what happens with attacks against swamp slimes:

 

 

I should have grazed the creature for 4.1 slash dmg but I did  14.2 slash dmg. Also please check the difference in DR against slash of the creature: in the picture above it states 22 DR, while in the picture below we have 8 DR.

 

 

Did I say that for crush damage we have the same issue?!

 

 

I think I will stop again because it seems that these bug have a rely negative impact on the flow of the game. I have level 6 party and these 8th level poor creatures have fallen like flies...

 

And if I am talking about damage calculation, let's look at that other end of the stick. My PC has Saint's War Armor (DR 9) which also has a +3 pierce DR. However, I've also acquired blunting belt which provides another +5 DR against both slash and pierce. The +5 for slash adds correctly, but the +5 for pierce doesn't: as you can see below my overall DR against pierce dmg is 9+3 instead of 9+5:

 

Edited April 3, 2015 by kmbogd

[AstroCat]

Did you try a new game? Maybe it is not a retro fix but only works on new games?

[kmbogd]

These bugs were present also in the release version (1.02). So definitely there is no question of incompatibility...

[bobthe]

I've also seen some problems with the damage calculation. This is in the latest, 1.03.

 

I'm having trouble linking an image for some reason but the combat log entry for my Barbarian's attack looks like:

 

"Acc:61 - Fort:47 = 14. Roll:62 + 14 = 76 (Hit). 33.1 - (DR:0.0 - 5.0) = 0.0 Pierce. -5 All Defenses for 6.3 sec"

 

The weapon has DR Reduction 5, hence the DR 0 - 5 part. I'm wondering if a negative effective DR is causing a problem with the damage calculation.

 

[Xionanx]

This is why the combat log needs MORE information.  I want to see the ENTIRE damage calculation.

 

I want to know:

 

What I rolled for weapon damage

What bonus was/wasn't applied

What Accuracy bonus/penalty was applied

 

 

I personally dont think Rogues do correct damage at all. and I dont think backstab EVER triggers..

Edited April 5, 2015 by Xionanx

[bobthe]

I'd also like to see details on damage when you hit multiple enemies. Currently there is no tooltip with the damage breakdown when it aggregates AoE effects that hit 3+ enemies.

[Emptiness]

"Acc:61 - Fort:47 = 14. Roll:62 + 14 = 76 (Hit). 33.1 - (DR:0.0 - 5.0) = 0.0 Pierce. -5 All Defenses for 6.3 sec"

 

The weapon has DR Reduction 5, hence the DR 0 - 5 part. I'm wondering if a negative effective DR is causing a problem with the damage calculation.

 

The reason you did 0.0 damage to that Xaurip Skirmisher is that it is already dead.  Sometimes an attack will happen a split second after an enemy dies, before the game has time to fully process that death.  In those cases the attack will happen, and appear in the combat log, but no damage will be done.

[kmbogd]

Please find below damage calculation for a graze:

 

 

This equates to a damage roll of 18.8, however my character is not capable of this:

 

 

I've observed the same type of errors in the same fight for other members of my party as well. Durance grazed for 9.5 pierce dmg (dmg roll of 19) when he can do only slightly below 18 max dmg. Not sure if a save is helpful since this can be probably reproduced by anyone, but  here it is.

Edited April 8, 2015 by kmbogd

[kmbogd]

Another bug with DR bypass for estoc which is sometimes not taken into account. Please see the incorrect calculatoin below (no 5 DR bypass):

 

 

In the same fight, the damage was calculated fine (5 DR bypass is present) on other hits:

 

Edited April 8, 2015 by kmbogd

[AlphaMagnum]

Grazes Not Calculated Correctly

 

 

Are there any other damage bonuses at play?  Grazes (-50%) and Crits (+50%) just get added to all other modifiers.  For example:

 

10 Base Damage, 20 Might (+30%), Superb weapon (+45%)

Hit = 10 * (1 + 0.30 + 0.45) = 10 * 1.75 = 17.5 Damage

Crit = 10 * (1 + 0.30 + 0.45 + 0.50) = 10 * 2.25 = 22.5 Damage

Graze = 10 * (1 + 0.30 + 0.45 - 0.50) = 10 * 1.25 = 12.5 Damage

 

Assuming 8 - 12 damage range, your character sheet would show (8*1.75) to (12*1.75) = 14 to 21 damage

 

Thus, the expectation that a 12.5dmg graze originated from a 25dmg hit is not consistent with the way the game does calculations.  With the same damage roll, a hit would've been 17.5 damage as I illustrated here.

[Xionanx]

(PoTD) There is an Archer in the bandit camp in Blackfield that consistently does 70+ damage a shot using what looks like a hunting bow, which unless there is some broken math somewhere just should not be possible.

 

After being one shot about 5x by the same archer, I just ignored the camp.

[teranosouras]

I'd also like to see details on damage when you hit multiple enemies. Currently there is no tooltip with the damage breakdown when it aggregates AoE effects that hit 3+ enemies.

If you click the line in the combat log that says something along the lines of: Characters Ability: 2 hits, 4 grazes, 1 crit. It will expand to show the individual damage and hit, miss etc for each creature.

[Lychnidos]

Please find below damage calculation for a graze:

 

 

This equates to a damage roll of 18.8, however my character is not capable of this:

 

 

I've observed the same type of errors in the same fight for other members of my party as well. Durance grazed for 9.5 pierce dmg (dmg roll of 19) when he can do only slightly below 18 max dmg. Not sure if a save is helpful since this can be probably reproduced by anyone, but  here it is.

 

Are you sure you didn't have any buffs when that attack was made.

[kmbogd]

The graze bugs that I've mentioned above are indeed a mistake from my end. However, the others are still valid and pretty important. It would be nice if a developer would provide any feedback on this.

[ushas]

Perhaps it would be useful if you can provide summary what you think are really bugs in the damage formula/ranges of your party members? If you have any questions about damage calculation there are many knowledgeable people in the discussion part of the forum. Besides stuff with grazes, I'm not sure I follow some of your other assumptions. Thus the summary may help?

 

For example:

As you can see above, I've rolled 19 pierce damage in a graze (50% of a normal damage). This means that a normal hit could be: 2*19=38. This is not the case as my max damage is displayed as 29 (it's actually higher as you can see in the second bug but still not close to 38):

 

 

 

 

One other bug is that it seems that the min damage information is not computed correctly in the character sheet (maybe even during the fights?). It includes only the bonus received from strength.

 

I have a fine estoc which has a base damage range of 16-23. The character's 20 might provides another 30% increase, confident aim provide an extra 20% to the min dmg only. Taking into account all this, the min dmg should be 16*(1+0.3+0.2)=24. The max damage should be 23*(1+0.3)=29.9.

 

The base damage range of Estoc is 14-20. Maybe you accidentally used range from the fine item description? That already contains fine modifier, which has to be used additively with others as AlphaMagnum illustrated. The game doesn't communicate very well on this.

 

Without Confident Aim:

14*(1+0.3+0.15) = 20.3

20*(1+0.3+0.15) = 29.0

--> Rounded as (20-29) for showing on character sheet.

 

Now when one includes Confided Aim: (23.1-29.0) -> (23-29)

 

 

So I guess, if you agree on this, the conclusion is that character sheet damage range doesn't take into account some of the active modifiers.

 

[v1.0.3.0530]

 

Damage modifiers which are included in damage range on character sheet:
Might Bonus
Quality properties of weapons
Weapon Specializations (passive)
Two-Handed style (passive)
Savage Attack (modal)
Reckless Assault (modal)

 

Note: I think some of the modifiers are used only in combat (Reckless Assault).

 

Damage modifiers which aren't taken into account on character sheet:
Confident Aim (passive)
Dangerouse Implements (modal)
Soul Whip (passive when Focus<max)
Draining Whip (passive when Focus<max)
Blessing (spell)
Fighting Spirit (passive when endurance<50%)

 

I may be wrong on this and the lists don't contain all the modifiers, so feel free to add comments and corrections.

 

Expected behavior would probably be that it would be more consistent and useful if all active damage modifiers are taken into account on character sheet.

Edited April 9, 2015 by ushas

[kmbogd]

Hi ushas, I agree with what you said. One of the bugs is that the damage range displayed in the character sheet does not take into account all abilities. Like in the example I provided with confident aim. You provided some more information which I did not test. I am not sure if this bug affects also the in-battle damage range.

 

So to sum up, what I think that is still bugged:

• damage range not taking into account all abilities (at least in the character sheet)
• the 5 DR bypass for estoc is not always taken into consideration: I provided an example above
• min dmg (20% of the rolled dmg) that is applied to swamp slime is wrong (I still have to reach that location to see if this has been solved or not)

 

What seems to have been solved since my original notes(it might also be that the issues are intermittent and do not occur often):

• saint's war armor provides the correct piercing DR
• spear spider now displays the 15 DR bypass in the damage logs
• graze damage miscalculation (this was an error on my part)

Edited April 9, 2015 by kmbogd

[dunehunter]

And there is a problem to the addition damage of Flame of Devotion. This pic is taken when I am doing FOD.

 

 

We can see that the Burning damage is not:

31.4 / 2 = 15.7 (before DR) or

27.4 / 2 = 13.7 (After DR), 

It's (31.5 - (10 / 2) ) / 2 = 13.2 (Minus DR/2 and ignore dr bypass),

I have already tested several times and I think the current fomula is Burning Dmage = (Raw damage - DR / 2) / 2, I think there are some bug in the caculation.

So FOD is now totally useless on Blunderbusses, cause if your enemy have like 20 DR, your addition Burning Damage from each shot of Blunderbuss will be around 0, which makes it totally useless on high DR enemies.

Edited April 9, 2015 by dunehunter

[ushas]

Thanks for the summary.

 

 

Hi ushas, I agree with what you said. One of the bugs is that the damage range displayed in the character sheet does not take into account all abilities. Like in the example I provided with confident aim. You provided some more information which I did not test. I am not sure if this bug affects also the in-battle damage range.

 

Items on lists I posted were checked on character sheet during the combat mode.

 

However, if you have any suspicion that some damage ranges aren't used properly, the combat log is probably the best to look at (what you're obviously already doing). I think the game can have separate calculation with rounding for UI descriptions. In past, there were wrong numbers on character sheet even when the game itself worked all right under the hood...

 

Edit: The char. sheet damage issue was added to unofficial bug tracker for better visibility:

https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-bugtracker/issues/10

Edited April 13, 2015 by ushas

[Abel]

I opened this topic with google because of confident aim. While the warrior's weapon spec increased damages by 1.15 is displayed correctly on the character sheet, i can't say if the min damage bonus of confident aim is mplemented correctly, because there is no feecback in the same character sheet. The rules are complicated and still well explained (2 good things), but i guess that some more details, explanations, tooltips,... to help the player would be great. The lack of feedback was already pointed out during the beta. One example of that is i just don't understand the "XX damage over 13 sec (10 base)". Can't figure out if having high int is a drawback here because the damage are dealt more slowly, or if the "xx damage" is dealt on a "x seconds" basis, with the increased duration allowing an undertermined amount of increased damages. Very unclear to me. Don't know if i explain it well, since i use to struggle with english.

 

Still, i agree that there are stange things sometimes. last time, i roll a 98-7=91= miss with my wizard, in the Eothas temple, while casting "iconic projection" on a shadow.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Abel

[kmbogd]

In version 1.04Beta4 please look at the pictures below regarding the damage done by my barbarian PC:

 

 

His damage range and active effects:

 

 

There are 3 bugs in here:

 

 1. The dmg range is not correct at all. I have Gaun's share equipped which is a fine flail: 10-15 base dmg, +15% dmg from fine. The PC has 22 Might, hence another +36% dmg. As you can see, there are no dmg increasing effects active on him. Thus, the dmg range should be 10-15 * (1+0.15+0.36)= 15.1-22.65 which should be rounded to 15-23 on the character sheet. 

 2. There is no way that on a hit this PC rolls 45.4 dmg. Even a crit is much lower than this 15*(1+0.15+0.36+0.5)=30.15

 3. Immediately  follows a "2 miss, 2 graze" information that I assume is from carnage. But there is no display on the precise graze damage and "carnage" indicator like you can see on the next, off-hand, weapon attack.

Edited April 16, 2015 by kmbogd

[AlphaMagnum]

Your Barbarian is using the currently bugged "One Stands Alone" passive, which, instead of adding 20% damage as described in the tooltip, instead adds a flat +20 damage.  This is a fairly well-known bug over in the "Character Builds" forum where people complain religiously about overpowered Barbarians trivializing the game difficulty.

 

This is responsible for 20 of the 45 base damage you see.  I cannot say where the rest came from, however, since your character sheet does list a max damage of 20.  It could be that you had Frenzy active at that time but not when you screenied the character sheet, or there might have been some sort of debuff placed by one of your other characters causing increased damage.  I believe a Wizard spell ("Combusting Wounds") can do this, but there may be other effects which do the same.

Edited April 16, 2015 by AlphaMagnum

[kmbogd]

Thanks AlphaMagnum for pointing out the "One Stands Alone" bug that affects damage calculations. Regarding Frenzy, as you can see from the above pictures, my barbarian did not learn this ability. I can also confirm that "Combusting Wounds" was not used (actually my wizard and priest are staying idle at the time of the initial engagement, as can be seen above).

 

So bug 2 from post #23 has a very probable cause in "One stands alone". The other 2, however, are yet to be understood.

[kmbogd]

Ok, so flames of devotion is also bugged. The (tested) formula is:

• w/o intense flames: 0.5*rolled dmg - 0.25*fireDR 
• w intense flames (another +25 burn dmg): 0.75 * rolled dmg - 0.5* fireDR

 

Even the formulas themselves are wrong because the base flames of devotion does not take into account 0.5 of the fire DR but only 0.25 of the fire DR. This makes no sense whatsoever. The intense flames adds another 0.25 dmg and another 0.25 fire DR but to the wrong base.

 

However, even the above formulas don't work 100% of time. I found few occasions where the result is not the expected one:

 

 

Pallegina has intense flames talent and Eder has 14 fire DR. Applying the formula from above we should have an extra fire dmg of: 11*0.75 - 14*0.5=1.25. Which is not what happens in the game.

 

A supposition: even if we consider that fire dmg from the ability is also subject to the minimal of 20% dmg rule, which I don't think is the case, we should have: (11*0.75)*0.2=1.65. 

 

As you can see from the picture above, I've made quite a few tests with both Pallegina and Asda. All the other calculations followed the formulas that I've mentioned above but this one. 

 

later edit: I've made some more tests and again I found one occasion when wrong calculation happened. I believe that it happens only with very low rolled dmg (min dmg with standard attack) and it might be that intenese flames have something to do with it as well since Asda paladin (which doesn't have intense flames) did not react like this no matter how low the rolled dmg was.

Edited April 20, 2015 by kmbogd