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Greetings all,

 

I'm restarting my ranger for a ranged rogue after getting tired of micromanaging a glass pet nonstop every battle.  I've heard that ranged rogues can be at least as effective as rangers at dishing out dps while remaining safe at a distance, but I've really no clue where to start.  I'm leaning towards the following:

 

Race: Island Aumaua

 

Stats: Might 21, Con 3, Dex 18, Perception 14, Intellect 13, Resolve 9

 

Background: The Living Lands

 

Abilities: Crippling Strike.

 

Will I be able to be effective with this is a starting build?  I plan to use a mix of guns and crossbows/bows, or perhaps multiple guns if I can switch fast enough to avoid having to reload.  Should I raise con, or will I be ok with a few con buffing enchants and careful positioning in the back?  Lastly will I be able to regularly achieve sneak attack from ranged, or will that be an issue?  I've been considering dropping intelligence to 3 as well but will I need it for duration of crippling/blinding strikes to make sneak attacks easier, or should I rely on my companions to apply those status effects?

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Stats are fine. I played through hard as a 21 might, 18 dex, 3 con, 18 perception, 3 int, 16 resolve with minor problems due to duration of blind (6 seconds). Should be fine sneak attacking from ranged exp if you add in a character that can debuff. My thoughts after doing this is that early on the wood elf racial +5 accuracy is fairly powerful and I would end up doing more damage overall as well.

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I don't see any reason to dump con that low, especially with pointless points in perception.  Keep the bonus int... don't rely on the idiot parade for anything.

 

But yes. Ranged rogues win. Bang, bang, dead.

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Even my 10 con sceptre priest goes squish easily with any agro on her. I dump the deflection stats first for squishies because they aren't going to have high enough deflection to avoid hits anyway, and I like to pump up might, dex, and int for AoE characters.

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I don't see any reason to dump con that low, especially with pointless points in perception.  Keep the bonus int... don't rely on the idiot parade for anything.

 

But yes. Ranged rogues win. Bang, bang, dead.

Perception isn't pointless, you get +interrupt chance, it's the superior choice over Resolve on a Ranged DPS that should never get hit.

It is very noticeable on a Ila's + Arquebus rogue as the target gets delayed a lot.

CON below 10 with anyone is a death wish.

Not really. Due to Con being % based, its effect on low hitdie characters is muted.

And if you play well, your ranged characters should never be in danger of taking hits anyway.

 

Even my 10 con sceptre priest goes squish easily with any agro on her. I dump the deflection stats first for squishies because they aren't going to have high enough deflection to avoid hits anyway, and I like to pump up might, dex, and int for AoE characters.

Trick is to not get aggro. :p  

A Fighter main-tank and a Priest/Paladin/Chanter offtank should be able to keep the baddies focused on them 24/7.  

Go double Fighter if you want to overkill it. 

 

I also suspect Dex is better for a ranged rogue, since it also affects reload afaik?

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Might as well ask in this topic since it already exists.

 

I'm also thinking of building a ranged Rogue, but I want a high resolve and perception for the dialogue options. Am I going to be able to do that without crippling my character into fairly useless status?

 

Also, backstabbing enemies with a blunderbuss sounds hilarious, but I keep hearing that backstab is a terrible horrible waste of a talent slot because it's so hard to use. Not worth the investment?

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Might as well ask in this topic since it already exists.

 

I'm also thinking of building a ranged Rogue, but I want a high resolve and perception for the dialogue options. Am I going to be able to do that without crippling my character into fairly useless status?

 

Also, backstabbing enemies with a blunderbuss sounds hilarious, but I keep hearing that backstab is a terrible horrible waste of a talent slot because it's so hard to use. Not worth the investment?

 

Depends on what you mean by "fairly useless". If you're playing on normal you could technically play a character with all 10 and still complete the game without any problem whatsoever. Perception and especially Resolve are mainly "tanking" stats right now so the only reason you would want them is if you're either expecting to play such a role or for RP reasons, that's it. Especially because deflection becomes better as you stack it while at low values it makes very little difference no matter what.

 

I'd choose either perception OR resolve to RP without lowering too much your main stats or maybe you could give a try to a suave tanking rogue using high deflection and abilities like adept evasion and riposte. Might be cool (or just terrible I have no idea really :) )

 

As for backstab... it needs positioning and micromanagement but it's not that horrible especially if you take the talent "Shadowying Beyond" which is an istant stealth 2x rest iirc. Backstabbing with a ranged rogue though kinda defeats the whole point of being ranged: having a glass cannon blowing up people from a safe position.

 

It makes sense to open with a gun if you have backstab even with a melee build just because of the huge base dmg they have, you would switch back to melee as soon as you blew the first enemy into chuncks (highly likely btw :) )

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Might as well ask in this topic since it already exists.

 

I'm also thinking of building a ranged Rogue, but I want a high resolve and perception for the dialogue options. Am I going to be able to do that without crippling my character into fairly useless status?

 

Also, backstabbing enemies with a blunderbuss sounds hilarious, but I keep hearing that backstab is a terrible horrible waste of a talent slot because it's so hard to use. Not worth the investment?

Nope.  You're throwing points away for no reason.  

 

I don't believe backstab works on guns.  Melee only, last I checked.

But popping out of stealth with blinding strike and penetrating shots with a blunderbuss is hilariously effective on a lot of targets.

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Might as well ask in this topic since it already exists.

 

I'm also thinking of building a ranged Rogue, but I want a high resolve and perception for the dialogue options. Am I going to be able to do that without crippling my character into fairly useless status?

 

Also, backstabbing enemies with a blunderbuss sounds hilarious, but I keep hearing that backstab is a terrible horrible waste of a talent slot because it's so hard to use. Not worth the investment?

Nope.  You're throwing points away for no reason.  

 

I don't believe backstab works on guns.  Melee only, last I checked.

But popping out of stealth with blinding strike and penetrating shots with a blunderbuss is hilariously effective on a lot of targets.

 

 

It does work with guns (and ranged weapons in general).

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Might as well ask in this topic since it already exists.

 

I'm also thinking of building a ranged Rogue, but I want a high resolve and perception for the dialogue options. Am I going to be able to do that without crippling my character into fairly useless status?

 

Also, backstabbing enemies with a blunderbuss sounds hilarious, but I keep hearing that backstab is a terrible horrible waste of a talent slot because it's so hard to use. Not worth the investment?

Nope.  You're throwing points away for no reason.  

 

I don't believe backstab works on guns.  Melee only, last I checked.

But popping out of stealth with blinding strike and penetrating shots with a blunderbuss is hilariously effective on a lot of targets.

 

 

It does work with guns (and ranged weapons in general).

 

 

It works, but only within 2m.   I would assume this is the source of confusion but tooltips does explain this.  Also I think people are perhaps not fully accounting that stealth is time based.  So you should line up your backstab from far away and make a beeline directly for the target, not position close slowly and then do it.  You should be moving before you trigger the pie chart at your feet.

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I find it impossible to completely avoid aggro. I've had fights where my cipher got hit by 5 ranged attacks before I could even do anything. Instant death. Thing is, I could have had 10 more con and it wouldn't have saved me.

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Might as well ask in this topic since it already exists.

 

I'm also thinking of building a ranged Rogue, but I want a high resolve and perception for the dialogue options. Am I going to be able to do that without crippling my character into fairly useless status?

 

Also, backstabbing enemies with a blunderbuss sounds hilarious, but I keep hearing that backstab is a terrible horrible waste of a talent slot because it's so hard to use. Not worth the investment?

Nope.  You're throwing points away for no reason.  

 

I don't believe backstab works on guns.  Melee only, last I checked.

But popping out of stealth with blinding strike and penetrating shots with a blunderbuss is hilariously effective on a lot of targets.

 

 

It does work with guns (and ranged weapons in general).

 

 

It works, but only within 2m.   I would assume this is the source of confusion but tooltips does explain this.  Also I think people are perhaps not fully accounting that stealth is time based.  So you should line up your backstab from far away and make a beeline directly for the target, not position close slowly and then do it.  You should be moving before you trigger the pie chart at your feet.

 

 

 

Lotta good info here. Haven't played the game yet, so tell me if this sounds feasible: Rogue in stealth beelines for a close target, opens with a blunderbuss backstab. Immediately turns around and runs away while tank(s) come up to intercept enemies. After tanks grab the enemies, Rogue swings back around to lay on ranged DPS. Workable or ticket to dead-rogue town? Probably depends on how many ranged opponents there are.

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I find it impossible to completely avoid aggro. I've had fights where my cipher got hit by 5 ranged attacks before I could even do anything. Instant death. Thing is, I could have had 10 more con and it wouldn't have saved me.

Well, it definitely can happen, but generally if you are picking the fight your archers should be out of range. I know the guides say to kill wizards, then ranged, then tanks, but seriously, I normally only do the wizards/clerics, and then peel back letting the archers plink at the tanks while we support the tanks.

 

There is a war bow that stuns on crit, that's the one I use on my rogue, and she crits a lot.

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Ranged rogues are very feasible. I'm just using war bows on mine for speedy hits - 18 might, 9 con, 20 dex, 18 per, 6 int, 6 res.

 

Perception not really too important, even if I stick him on attacking a caster it doesn't interrupt much.

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I'm not a fan of the 3 con as I play on POTD. Dump resolve instead, its much less useful. And take the +1 dex background for faster hits.

 

I don't bother with sneak attacks, so far for feats I took blind shot, marksman, 2 feats for 20% passive bonus to crit, then the raw DoT. I should have kept the INT at 10 and dumped resolve more as duration affects the blind and dot.

Edited by Mungri
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First off: attributes in this game are like icing on the cake -- they are not the end all be all to a character build, nor will they somehow cripple your character. If you want to roleplay a willful, long-range, gun-totting, hyper-perceptive roguely assassin, then go for it. Losing a 9% damage bonus is not going to cripple your character.

 

Seriously. Think about this for a second. Let's say, hypothetically, you've got an arquebus that does 40 damage, consistently, every shot.. That's pretty generous. The difference between having Might 14 and Might 17 is less than 4 damage. Four damageFour!

 

If four damage is the difference between life and death, victory or defeat, you've done something very, very, wrong. 

 

Listen, this game wasn't built so that it had the rigidity of builds that the Infinity Engine has. The developers have very clearly stated that they wanted it to be hard to make a 'useless' character -- you'll just be different, if anything. And they've done a very good job of making good on that goal.

 

To answer your question in a tl;dr fashion: Yes, a long-range rogue is viable. Yes, you can take points in Resolve and Perception for the sake of roleplaying. No, you do not have to drop Constitution to 3 to have a working long range assassin. What talents and abilities do you pick? Whichever you want. Unless you're clicking random things and choosing exclusively defensive talents, you're not going to go wrong as long as your rogue is continuously attacking someone with his gun.

 

A few pieces of extended advice, though:

 

1. Guns are great for that first volley, but they take a day and a half to reload. Try sneaking forward with your rogue (and any other stealth-heavy allies who are equipped with range weapons) and fire off a sneak attack onto one of your enemies before falling back to your allies. Swap out to another ranged weapon -- either another gun, or a bow/crossbow for quicker, more sustained reloading. If you stick exclusively with guns, try to save your auto attacks for when you can get off a sneak attack.

 

2. Take Grieving Mother with you. She's a cipher and has a lot of abilities that trigger your sneak attacks.

 

3. If you're going with a slow weapon, try to go for active abilities that you can use to enhance your limited gunshots. If you're going with a fast weapon, try to go for passive abilities that increase the effectiveness of each shot you fire. Reckless Assault is really good as long as you can use your tanks to keep enemies off you. Dirty Fighting is pretty good, too. So is Bloody Slaughter.

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On POTD that 4 damage would matter a lot. Also its +4 damage per hit, so if you hit 10 times that's +40.

 

I could be wrong, but TC doesn't sound like he has any intention of playing PotD in the near future. 

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I'm thinking that since 3 or 10 CON is essentially the same thing in the sense that you get one-shot or something like the previous posters have mentioned, then I might as well go 3 CON. In a way, the best of both worlds are achieved since I can min/max and and with the same practical results from the low CON. Thoughts?

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On POTD that 4 damage would matter a lot. Also its +4 damage per hit, so if you hit 10 times that's +40.

 

I am playing PotD with a ranged rogue with suboptimal attributes (only 10 might), no min-maxed adventurers and no bug-inflated stats and so far doing really well, sometimes it is actually too easy :) But what is not with those super tanky fighters, OP spells and possibly overlevelled content. And those things which destroy me would destroy me regardless of my rogue's might.

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I'm thinking that since 3 or 10 CON is essentially the same thing in the sense that you get one-shot or something like the previous posters have mentioned, then I might as well go 3 CON. In a way, the best of both worlds are achieved since I can min/max and and with the same practical results from the low CON. Thoughts?

 

Alright, if we're going to talk pure min/max, let's get real:

 

Aumaua / Dwarf
 
MIG: 20
CON: 18 (19)
DEX: 18 (17)
PER: 10
INT: 3
RES: 9
 
Culture: Deadfire Archipelago or The Living Lands
 
Background: Any
 
There's absolutely no reason to take three constitution ever when playing a rogue. Intelligence is practically useless on them. Your debuff abilities decrease from 10 seconds to 6.5, which is a bit of a sore spot but not altogether a bad thing if you take the Grieving Mother with you and use the rest of your party to supply sneak attack opportunities. What's particularly great about a lack of intelligence on a rogue is that the negative duration theoretically effects Deep Wounds in a strange way -- it makes the raw damage affect the target faster. Meaning that you do x damage over 6.5 seconds rather than 20. So, ideally, you're going to be cycling pin point accurate shots to each enemy and whittling them down with the raw damage DoT effect.
 
Two-handed Style gives you a 15% increase in damage. Penetrating Shot helps with sturdy, DR-heavy enemies. You can take Marksman if you want the extra accuracy, and Gunslinger if you're dead set on using one of the slow reloading weapons all the time. Dirty Fighting & Vicious Fighting are also quite nice. Interrupting Blows is great for sniping out mages from afar. Bloody Slaughter will help you pick off low health enemies as well. Graceful Retreat isn't a poor investment, either.
 
I think that's about it. Sneak into fights and start them off with a deadly blunderbuss volley. Make sure your allies help set up sneaks. And go kill things mercilessly~
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