Walking Toggle Please

[Lythe Vodaine]

Running causes all kinds of problems, in my opinion. It is too late for it all but here's my opinions and thoughts on what would've been better:

 

A) You already have Fast-Mode, you don't need Running. In fact, I barely did anything without Fast-Mode, why wouldn't I? It is there, and it speeds up the game greatly. Combat slows down to Normal Speed anyways. Fast-Mode solves all "perceived problems" that Walking would've "caused". But Walking would've solved way more problems in Combat, in Exploration, in Feels. There are also Bracelets of Speed and Boots of Speed too, that really serves Zero purpose because above mentioned flaws in Running.

 

B) Running messes with combat. It does. When you spot an enemy, running into the Engagement and the Enemy running into yours causes a lot of fickle movements and twitches to the characters. It looks chaotic at many times, and it would've done the game more justice to have characters walk into engagement or walk whilst encountering each other in melee combat. It would've also been more controlled, as characters wouldn't have sped around like junkies on adrenaline. It would've also served enemy types and challenge if the characters had been Walking instead.

 

Some enemies could've been faster, and that would've been a challenge in and of itself. "****! This enemy is running! Pause!" and preparing and calculating what to do. There is not much or any of that at this point. Walking would've AIDED tactics and strategy in combat.

 

C) Scout Mode. I use it almost everywhere I go where I perceive there is danger nearby. It feels wise to do so. The "crack" or "twitch" in the pace of movement feels awkward when combat begins. From lurking/scouting/searching into running. Walking would've solved this as well, or, keep the "scout" stance and use that stance in combat as well as "readied" into combat. At the moment, character's "scout" with their weapons ready, and when combat begins, they drop their stance, lower their weapons to their sides, runs into engagement, and then brings up their weapons again. So many holes in their defenses!

 

D) Sprinting. All characters having some sort of "Wild Sprint" equivalent that the Barbarian has, a limited, per encounter (Fatigue draining) ability that they could use in combat. A burst of movement. This would've aided mobility in combat. Specific "Sprint AI Scripts" to add even more flavor to B) enemies. Meeting a Fighter, or a Rogue in combat, and you see them Sprint? You'd have to react, think and calculate. I.E. It would've added more reactivity in combat.

 

All in all: Running wasn't necessary to begin with. It works against the mechanics, not for them.

An excellent posting, thank you.

[KnightOfVirtue]

Running causes all kinds of problems, in my opinion. It is too late for it all but here's my opinions and thoughts on what would've been better:

A) You already have Fast-Mode, you don't need Running. In fact, I barely did anything without Fast-Mode, why wouldn't I? It is there, and it speeds up the game greatly. Combat slows down to Normal Speed anyways. Fast-Mode solves all "perceived problems" that Walking would've "caused". But Walking would've solved way more problems in Combat, in Exploration, in Feels. There are also Bracelets of Speed and Boots of Speed too, that really serves Zero purpose because above mentioned flaws in Running (These Bracelets and Boots would've had much more purpose with Walking).

B) Running messes with combat. It does. When you spot an enemy, running into the Engagement and the Enemy running into yours causes a lot of fickle movements and twitches to the characters. It looks chaotic at many times, and it would've done the game more justice to have characters walk into engagement or walk whilst encountering each other in melee combat. It would've also been more controlled, as characters wouldn't have sped around like junkies on adrenaline. It would've also served enemy types and challenge if the characters had been Walking instead.

Some enemies could've been faster, and that would've been a challenge in and of itself. "****! This enemy is running! Pause!" and preparing and calculating what to do. There is not much or any of that at this point. Walking would've AIDED tactics and strategy in combat.

C) Scout Mode. I use it almost everywhere I go where I perceive there is danger nearby. It feels wise to do so. The "crack" or "twitch" in the pace of movement feels awkward when combat begins. From lurking/scouting/searching into running. Walking would've solved this as well, or, keep the "scout" stance and use that stance in combat as well as "readied" into combat. At the moment, character's "scout" with their weapons ready, and when combat begins, they drop their stance, lower their weapons to their sides, runs into engagement, and then brings up their weapons again. So many holes in their defenses!

D) Sprinting. All characters having some sort of "Wild Sprint" equivalent that the Barbarian has, a limited, per encounter (Fatigue draining) ability that they could use in combat. A burst of movement. This would've aided mobility in combat. Specific "Sprint AI Scripts" to add even more flavor to B) enemies. Meeting a Fighter, or a Rogue in combat, and you see them Sprint? You'd have to react, think and calculate. I.E. It would've added more reactivity in combat.

All in all: Running wasn't necessary to begin with. It works against the mechanics, not for them.

I disagree, combat was designed around run speed, with the option for slow mode if that felt to quick for you. And adding it as a separate combat mechanic would be really messy and would cause more problems than anything. A walking toggle would be cool, but if it's difficult to add (doing the animations right in a non scripted scenario can take a lot of time) I would rather the devs focus on other parts of the game.

[Osvir]

Combat was feels designed around Engagement (Which certainly has tons of rooms for improvement. I like it and I enjoy it, but it could be better).

Out of Combat Exploration was feels designed around Running (Towns, Safe-Areas, Point A to B exploration = Fast-Mode solves all of this regardless of if you were flying, skipping, jumping, crawling or whatever your character could've done)

Dungeon/Danger Area Exploration was feels designed around Scout Mode.

Two different cases. Three Different cases.

 

EDIT: Strike-through to clarify. I can't say that "It was" because I'm not the developer (and unless you are, you can't either).
 

A walking toggle would be cool

 

I am not asking or demanding anything by the way. I am stating my opinion and my thoughts why I believe that Running causes more problems than what Walking would have done. It is all hypotheticals but, why I took your post out of context is because, I am not talking about a toggle. I am talking about a change that will most likely never happen (and I state as such in my post). Remove Running completely, replace it with Walking.

A toggle won't solve anything, because Players will use "Auto-Run" anyways.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Osvir

[Vanant]

 

I disagree, combat was designed around run speed, with the option for slow mode if that felt to quick for you. And adding it as a separate combat mechanic would be really messy and would cause more problems than anything. A walking toggle would be cool, but if it's difficult to add (doing the animations right in a non scripted scenario can take a lot of time) I would rather the devs focus on other parts of the game.

 

What? NPCs walk all the time. We aren´t asking for some obscure scripting beyond the capabilities of the engine.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Vanant

[KnightOfVirtue]

 

I disagree, combat was designed around run speed, with the option for slow mode if that felt to quick for you. And adding it as a separate combat mechanic would be really messy and would cause more problems than anything. A walking toggle would be cool, but if it's difficult to add (doing the animations right in a non scripted scenario can take a lot of time) I would rather the devs focus on other parts of the game.

 

What? NPCs walk all the time. We aren´t asking for some obscure scripting beyond the capabilities of the engine.

Depending on how it was coded, having scripted NPCs walk is very different than having PC walk, especially with the variety of options in character creator and that items show on characters. It could be really easy, but it also be something that takes a lot of work, it really depends on how it was done.

 

Combat was feels designed around Engagement (Which certainly has tons of rooms for improvement. I like it and I enjoy it, but it could be better).

Out of Combat Exploration was feels designed around Running (Towns, Safe-Areas, Point A to B exploration = Fast-Mode solves all of this regardless of if you were flying, skipping, jumping, crawling or whatever your character could've done)

Dungeon/Danger Area Exploration was feels designed around Scout Mode.Two different cases. Three Different cases.

 

EDIT: Strike-through to clarify. I can't say that "It was" because I'm not the developer (and unless you are, you can't either).

 

 

 

A walking toggle would be cool

 

I am not asking or demanding anything by the way. I am stating my opinion and my thoughts why I believe that Running causes more problems than what Walking would have done. It is all hypotheticals but, why I took your post out of context is because, I am not talking about a toggle. I am talking about a change that will most likely never happen (and I state as such in my post). Remove Running completely, replace it with Walking.

A toggle won't solve anything, because Players will use "Auto-Run" anyways.

 

I guess I'm not really sure what you're saying here. The main difference with walking is movespeed and animation, so changing the running animation to a walking one doesn't make much sense. If you think the movespeed is the issue then that can be solved without changing animations.

 

In short, walking vs running merely a cosmetic difference, typically for RP purposes (which can be pretty fun for some people). Or am I missing something?

Edited April 1, 2015 by KnightOfVirtue

[Osvir]

I'm just trying to elaborate, I did feel you didn't read my bigger post (A, B, C, D) given your response to it.

The main difference between Walking and Running is the amount of Time it takes to get from Point A to Point B. It is not about the Animation (although, Walking movespeed with Running animation would look awfully awkward), it is about Time, Distance, Tactics. Not vanity or cosmetics (even if it has a cosmetic application).

When combat begins, there is often times X distance between 2 targets. Depending on the opponents movements, you react. The faster the characters get into Engagement and cross that X distance, the less time you have to react or think about it. Running removes all "X distance" calculations, making combat become "What happens in Engagement?" not "What happens in Combat?" (Two different things).

Running = Less Tactics to employ. If I were to compare with, abstracted, Turn-Based, you have 2-3 tiles away from your opponent, and you get to tactically move your characters into position. Imagine how Turn-Based games would be if all characters could move up to the enemy on the very first turn. In Pillars of Eternity, with the Running, there is little time. That "gap" is nearly non-existant.

Walking serves the Players, because they would have a more interesting combat experience, but most of all it serves Developers, because it gives them more room and a more controlled environment to develop Tactical play around preparation, positioning, reactivity, environment, AI and movement. Even abilities.

If you can Run up to the enemy and bash them in their face before their AI triggers complete, what purpose would that AI serve? None. Wasted developed time.

But if you instead Walk, and the enemy manages to start casting a spell, and you have to use a "Sprint" ability to dodge it, that adds more tactics. Or the AI positioning themselves in a way that you can't just "Run past them", or them retreating backwards themselves into a doorway, and you wouldn't be able to "catch up" to them (Unless you would use a "Sprint" equivalent Ability). It allows the AI to finish their command before you abrupt it and create a new one. I.E. it allows the Developers to script the AI in a more controlled and predictable environment, giving the Player a more interesting encounter challenge (Which is why Turn-Based Combat is so good at delivering tactical combat, because the AI is actually allowed to do stuff before you overcome them).

It isn't rocket science, in theory (but maybe in practice/development). 

EDIT: The underline serves pretty much my entire opinion. That's how it feels with Running in Pillars of Eternity (In Combat). I guess I am okay with exploring in "Run Mode". But in Combat it doesn't quite fit in.

This is pretty much my opinion:
-Exploration = Running
-Combat = Scout Stance/Movement Animation/Speed+Short burst Sprint command/ability.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Osvir

[TCJ]

I'd add my vote in for the walking option. One thing I liked about NWN2 was that you could click "search" mode and the character would walk. Drakensang 2 (not sure about 1) had a sheathe weapon toggle which was nice.

 

As far as walking/running, it could have been used to add further strategy to combat since running would probably make one a little more difficult to hit with ranged weapons, but less aware of hand-to-hand attacks. That would be a whole lot more coding, so I wouldn't expect it, but it would be an interesting idea to implement in a game.

[Mdalton31]

I don't think it would take alot. The cut scenes already have your characters walk in them

[kabaliero]

Upcoming patch notes do not contain anything related to the subj. Oh well!

[Fajeth]

Upcoming patch notes do not contain anything related to the subj. Oh well!

I'm not surprised. Despite all that blah 'bout how they care about the gamers wishes - in reality they don't give a f***. Many asked for a walk toggle back when the game was still in development but Sawyer and Co. decided to ignore it. I really don't want to be rude but that's pissing me off. Honestly I so regret that I gave them my money: I can't enjoy the game anyway... For ****'s sake can't you just swallow your snot-nosed attitude and give us what we want? We're not asking you for a super complex and expensive new feature that would take months to make and implement but to do something a decent modder could do within 5 minutes provided he had the tools.

[kabaliero]

Wow, wow, take a deep breath, bro

It is kinda sad, but it's not the end of everything.

I'm sure these guys are gonna help us out.

 

The release date was sort of surprising.

For all it's worth, the game needed at least half a year more to look like a solid 1.0

I think Obsidian were just too eager to cut the waiting for us, the players. Can't blame them for that!

 

Although at least a word from the staff on the subject would be nice.

Like, if it's worth the wait or should we just take it up the bottom and play as is

Edited April 3, 2015 by kabaliero

[Valsuelm]

 

Upcoming patch notes do not contain anything related to the subj. Oh well!

I'm not surprised. Despite all that blah 'bout how they care about the gamers wishes - in reality they don't give a f***. Many asked for a walk toggle back when the game was still in development but Sawyer and Co. decided to ignore it. I really don't want to be rude but that's pissing me off. Honestly I so regret that I gave them my money: I can't enjoy the game anyway... For ****'s sake can't you just swallow your snot-nosed attitude and give us what we want? We're not asking you for a super complex and expensive new feature that would take months to make and implement but to do something a decent modder could do within 5 minutes provided he had the tools.

 

 

While I agree that walking should have been the default and a run toggle should have been in the game (that you could turn permanently on in options if you wanted), I wouldn't get too upset about them not fixing the situation in the week 1 patch.

 

They had a number of serious bugs to fix. Give them some time. I'm hopeful the situation will be remedied.

[Osvir]

Upcoming patch notes do not contain anything related to the subj. Oh well!

It's because it is too late. It was too late "too late ago". I tried to push it in the early days of the Backer Beta but, IIRC, there was some indirect response in an update or in an interview or something arguing for why the characters are running~ but I really think it has to do with something like: all RPG's nowadays shows the character jogging or running everywhere in an Auto-Run mode. It's been normalized.

 

And if the characters are walking everywhere, what do you think this thread would've been called? That's right: "Running Toggle Please"

 

There's probably general industry data showing that more Players favors "Running" than "Walking", and had this thread been the opposite, maybe there'd be more interest in the discussion (and that's probably how all games developers know that "Running" is more important than "Walking"). And for a game developed like this (With Kickstarter/Crowdfunding), it is really "one or the other". Maybe a toggle in a sequel *shrug*

Edited April 3, 2015 by Osvir

[Mdalton31]

Oh well I will wait until it's added and if it isn't I just wasted my money I guess.

It's just a lesson learned. I will do my research next time before buying a game. Oh well

Edited April 3, 2015 by Mdalton31

[kabaliero]

 

Upcoming patch notes do not contain anything related to the subj. Oh well!

It's because it is too late. It was too late "too late ago". I tried to push it in the early days of the Backer Beta but, IIRC, there was some indirect response in an update or in an interview or something arguing for why the characters are running~ but I really think it has to do with something like: all RPG's nowadays shows the character jogging or running everywhere in an Auto-Run mode. It's been normalized.

 

And if the characters are walking everywhere, what do you think this thread would've been called? That's right: "Running Toggle Please"

 

There's probably general industry data showing that more Players favors "Running" than "Walking", and had this thread been the opposite, maybe there'd be more interest in the discussion (and that's probably how all games developers know that "Running" is more important than "Walking"). And for a game developed like this (With Kickstarter/Crowdfunding), it is really "one or the other". Maybe a toggle in a sequel *shrug*

 

Never crossed my mind to ask for a run in BG, really.

Speed spells and items solved that pretty well.

 

The overall complexity and indepth are diffrent, in this case, however. So~

Only a toggle would solve that nicely.

 

And if, as they say, characters can walk in cutscenes - then it's not an issue code-wise.

Edited April 3, 2015 by kabaliero

[Osvir]

Never crossed my mind to ask for a run in BG, really.

Speed spells and items solved that pretty well.

 

The overall complexity and indepth are diffrent, in this case, however. So~

Only a toggle would solve that nicely.

 

And if, as they say, characters can walk in cutscenes - then it's not an issue code-wise.

Times have changed greatly since Baldur's Gate. I wasn't around when Baldur's Gate came out, I was a console player at the time.

 

That's what I said too by the way.

 

Even back in December 2012 I thought that Walking was a "given".

 

*shrug*

 

Crusade? Anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm joking! I'm joking! Okay? Good :P

 

 

 

 

[kabaliero]

Crusade? Anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

[Eggnog]

On the one hand we have a thread where someone wants a walking toggle and, on the other hand, we have a thread where someone wants to be able to find traps and loot while blazing a trail across the map at high speed.  The threads should meet in a duel.

[Valsuelm]

On the one hand we have a thread where someone wants a walking toggle and, on the other hand, we have a thread where someone wants to be able to find traps and loot while blazing a trail across the map at high speed.  The threads should meet in a duel.

 

The patient almost always win against the impatient.

[bon007]

I want walking too not everywhere running like a little boy...Very annoying

[trojanuch]

Behold guys as the solution is near:

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/39/?tab=4&&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fpillarsofeternity%2Fajax%2Fcomments%2F%3Fmod_id%3D39%26page%3D1%26sort%3DDESC%26pid%3D0%26thread_id%3D2744994&pUp=1

[Ichthyic]

 

 

ROTFLMAO, I'm sorry... but some of you have got to be kidding. You're not playing the game because you can't walk? You can hit S to slow time down, and that's just as good. There's a "Not Suggested" review on Steam right now of someone who played the game for 0.3 hours and then quit because he couldn't walk. This whole thing is absolutely hilarious, surely I'm not the only person who sees this?

 

Oh, and for bonus points, if you want to walk slower than a snail, press S and Alt. Problem solved

People *sometimes* tend to have a diffrent perspective.

Just finding it hilarious doesn't really justify someone as right.

Mockery is also dubious. In cases like this it only marks one dim for the others.

 

 

So, you're telling me you're not kidding? You honestly believe that the lack of walking in this game makes it unplayable? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, I was assuming you were joking originally.

 

empathy is not your strong suit.

 

don't consider going into medicine, or anything requiring you to actually understand someone else's perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ichthyic]

On the one hand we have a thread where someone wants a walking toggle and, on the other hand, we have a thread where someone wants to be able to find traps and loot while blazing a trail across the map at high speed.  The threads should meet in a duel.

one will happen, the other most definitely will not.

 

wanna bet which?

[Ichthyic]

 

do something a decent modder could do within 5 minutes provided he had the tools.

ha!  it's like you were thinking one day into the future....

 

given that likely tomorrow there will already indeed be a mod that allows for walking for PoE.

 

 

[Osvir]

*shakes head*
 

Behold guys as the solution is near:

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/39/?tab=4&&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fpillarsofeternity%2Fajax%2Fcomments%2F%3Fmod_id%3D39%26page%3D1%26sort%3DDESC%26pid%3D0%26thread_id%3D2744994&pUp=1

Wooo! Something to be positive about at the very least