Companion's Builds, ouch.

[Odd Hermit]

In the order I've picked them up:

 

1. Eder.

 

Eder is pretty mediocre but nothing particularly ruinous either. His first talent is one of the worst picks possible though, and he doesn't seem built well for durability or damage. He's very "meh".

 

2. Aloth.

 

Aloth's attributes are pretty really bad. He has 9pts spent in deflection attributes above the base, that he gets almost nothing out of while his might is very low. His spell selection is also awful. There's no Slicken. There's no Eldritch Aim. He has a useless touch spell and deflection boosting spell.

 

3. Durance.

 

Durance has very excessive resolve but whatever at least it's a bit more useful than Aloth's 16 perception since. Talent selection though... bear's fortitude? Ugh. There are plenty of no-particular direction priest talents that are way better. Interdiction is what I'd have put on him. Bear's Fort is like throwing that first talent away, and Priest is a class that's already talent starved due to so many Interdiction/Holy Radiance talents you want.

 

4. Kana Rua.

 

Poor chant and invocation choices, otherwise a decent build. He's workable.

 

Also Aloth or Kana really should have had mechanics boosted. I don't know why it got put it on Durance. He starts with 3 which is somewhat acceptable for early areas but a bit of waste to put it on a class with no bonus.

 

I really can't wait for a mod that lets us build them from scratch. I don't want to go without the banter and extra dialogue and so on but their builds are driving me a little nuts right now. I was hoping the early-game companions would be a little more practically built.

 

Hopefully the other companions are in better shape.

[Webin]

You can hire adventurer's and make your own dudes at the starting inn.  It just costs a little starting cash is all.

[Magrusaod]

Yeah, noticing that. I have Eder and Aloth, and hired myself a monk to go with my Chanter I created. I would not build a fighter or a wizard in this fashion. 

[Enoch]

I can understand not making the NPCs into idealized builds.  I mean, how would you feel if you made a Fighter, met Eder, and discovered that he can do everything your handcrafted character can do, only better?  And if the best you could do even if you re-started would be to match him? 

 

Part of the goal here is making the Player feel special, and part of that is in making the PC stand out relative to the NPCs.  A PC designed by a player with a reasonable feel for the ruleset should be a more effective character than a joinable NPC of the same class. 

 

If you demand perfection, the IWD-party option is in there.  Just know that, outside of the sadistic difficulty levels, the game is balanced for a party of the dev-provided NPCs. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Enoch

[Sensuki]

When the IE mod comes out, you'll be able to wipe their progression and level them up.

[Enoch]

When the IE mod comes out, you'll be able to wipe their progression and level them up.

 

Not really in keeping with the "IE" name, there, is it?

[Sensuki]

It has several UI features that changes things back to how they worked in the Infinity Engine games, but yes it's more than just an IE mod.

[TrueMenace]

When the IE mod comes out, you'll be able to wipe their progression and level them up.

Will that and/or using the IE disable acheivements?

[Sensuki]

Not that I'm aware of.

[Voss]

I'm finding Eder pretty useful, but after an unsuccessful attempt at a cipher, and a going fairly well attempt with a priest, both on hard, he's the only companion that seems worthwhile so far.  Aloth tends to get dropped a lot.  Mostly by stupid teleporting shadows and shades, but I have no idea what the rationale is behind arcane assault at 5m.  

Durance is also just a little baffling, as is the sheer waste that is con as an attribute.  I've got 2 amulets of health (+15 end) already, and wearing one puts my endurance (with 10 con) above Durance's 16 Con.  What a pointless waste, as is the giant pile of resolve.  

 

I'm essentially propping up the party with a hired rogue, because damage beats tanking flat out.  At least, by the paladin experiment I ran alongside the cipher attempt. Enemies beat on her like she didn't have deflection, despite using everything available to max it out.

 

 

The big thing I've noticed is a lot of critters seem to built with the assumption that something is giving accuracy. I'm often attacking at a negative, and reasonably often at -10 to -20.  For reasons.  

Edited March 27, 2015 by Voss

[Odd Hermit]

Got Sagani and Hiravias.

 

Hiravias at least has somewhat sensible talent choices if they were assuming Shapeshift is worth spending talents on which it isn't(weapon focus peasant I assume is aimed @ unarmed for shift) and bonus lvl 1 spell isn't the worst thing in the world I guess. His attributes are.. well the total lack of int is bit confusing for a druid. He kinda looks like someone just hit the random roll button in the old 2e IE games.

 

Sagani I'm not sure is salvageable + ranger is already underwhelming. I definitely won't be using her.

 

At least spellcasters can be decent w/bad attribute spreads just 'cause spells do other things than damage.

 

I am trying to rush through areas finding the companions to get them as low level as possible to save as many talents/abilities as I can, I think I've only got Grieving Mother(and I think I know where she is) and Pallegina(know where she is) to go now.

 

 

I can understand not making the NPCs into idealized builds.  I mean, how would you feel if you made a Fighter, met Eder, and discovered that he can do everything your handcrafted character can do, only better?  And if the best you could do even if you re-started would be to match him? 

 

Uh... completely fine? Happier than I am now with him definitely.

 

 

[Voss]

Got Sagani and Hiravias.

 

 

 

I am trying to rush through areas finding the companions to get them as low level as possible to save as many talents/abilities as I can, I think I've only got Grieving Mother(and I think I know where she is) and Pallegina(know where she is) to go now.

 

 

This was something I'm particularly worried about. I didn't want to be spoiled, but leveling naturally (I'm already at 4th and a quarter of the way to fifth) sets the companions up to be worse and worse.

 

I have no idea why the default wasn't that you recruit the companions, they have xp appropriate to whatever level you are and then you level them up yourself.  If not the default, at least an option, because this is really poor.   I'm currently using Durance as an arbalester (due to the complete lack of any guns but 2 pistols so far, and one was a disappointment), simply for lack of anything better to do with him.

[Magrusaod]

I can understand the not wanting to overshadow your main PC. However, the pre-mades are...poorly built. Honestly, I want to sell them for 1st level ones I make myself. It's a party game setup. >.< Having only one character that truly shines and the rest just not be effective is...meh. 

[Odd Hermit]

Yeah, it definitely feels like my PC is carrying the group way too much. At this point he has done multiple times the damage of Aloth and Eder - granted the intro they're not present for and the PC gets a bit ahead from that, but not enough to come even close to closing the gap.

 

Numbers right now are -

 

Eder ~2200

Aloth ~1850

PC ~7050

 

Overall it doesn't feel like I'm playing a well composed group, it's my PC doing most of the damage while hiding behind a bunch of useless meat shields that feel like they were made with a character randomizer.

 

 

Aloth is a bit better once you fix his Grimoire selection to not be horrible(and more focused on debuffs since his damage sucks) but it takes awhile before you can do that. And he still drops like a stone if anything attacks him, so his high perception definitely isn't helping anything and would be much better spent raising Might/Int more.

 

Pallegina is kind of like Eder, just kinda meh stats - a little more defensive w/attributes but then comes with two talents that prevent me from being able to make her into a decent tank. Paladin is just a solid class right now though so I may stick with her.

 

 

 

I'm thinking I'll use a hired adventurer to build one real tank, then use Pallegina, Kana Rua, my PC, maybe Grieving Mother if she's decent, Aloth will be put on debuff duty and I'll hire another adventurer to have a second competently build damager.

[Magrusaod]

My issue is this. I don't want an interrupt/CC mage. I want a nuker. However, in order to do so, I need to ignore Aloth and pay for an alternative mage. This goes for every companion out there. There's these NPC's you pick up that are a specific class, and I want to run through the story they have, and enjoy it. However, I just want to stab them and get someone else because they are ineffective at their jobs I want them to do. Which is a true bummer. 

I just spent 5 hours today playing through with a tanky sustaining Chanter PC, and I ran into Aloth and Eder. Neither of which can do damage. Which makes my fights a snore fights. Leaving me with the hope that I run into other companions who are build better, but unlikely. Which leaves the alternative of ignore all further companions and not letting them into my party so I have room to purchase ones I can build. :/ 

OR, starting over with a striker character, who can carry these companions as they support him like cheerleaders. Which really isn't a party based game. It's a Michael Jordon and his cheer squad, effectively. My companions hold my cloak while I kick ass and take names. Not the way I want to play this game. 

[Sensuki]

I'm probably going to mod Accuracy onto Perception instead of Deflection, and that will solve a lot of problems IMO.

[Odd Hermit]

Just finished grabbing them all, Grieving Mother wasn't where I expected heh, and instead in one of the places I was less likely to look.

 

And her attributes are terrible too.

 

The devs definitely didn't realize Might/Int = the caster stats, unequivocally.

 

I am looking forward to fixing them. I might go through the game without any of the pre-mades this time, it'll leave some interesting content for my second play-through when I can tweak them with a mod.

[Magrusaod]

Just finished grabbing them all, Grieving Mother wasn't where I expected heh, and instead in one of the places I was less likely to look.

 

And her attributes are terrible too.

 

The devs definitely didn't realize Might/Int = the caster stats, unequivocally.

 

I am looking forward to fixing them. I might go through the game without any of the pre-mades this time, it'll leave some interesting content for my second play-through when I can tweak them with a mod.

 

I might myself. It's just painful the way these guys are built. I mean, truly painful. As a DM, I make my players rebuild if they put forward characters this bad for my games. So they are effective at the basic things their concept is supposed to do and can enjoy the game.

[gkathellar]

I can understand not making the NPCs into idealized builds.

 

Idealized? Hell, man, I'd settle for "not actively terrible." Eder can only barely tank. Aloth doesn't play to any of the Wizard's strengths. Durance is built as though one person wanted a battle cleric and another wanted a caster cleric, and they settled for being bad at both. Kana Rua's stats are very nearly ideal, but it seems as though this was totally accidental.

 

I can understand not making the NPCs into idealized builds.  I mean, how would you feel if you made a Fighter, met Eder, and discovered that he can do everything your handcrafted character can do, only better?  And if the best you could do even if you re-started would be to match him?

 

"Oh man, this guy's pretty badass. Not only do I enjoy his company, I also feel like he's got my back instead of just being a garbage hireling who I keep around for good conversation."

Edited March 27, 2015 by gkathellar

[solmyr]

Perfect build are not interestring, it's an RPG, companions should be taken for their story / quest / interaction.

Nevertheless, can someone please post the attributes list of all companions ?

[Bryy]

Perfect build are not interestring, it's an RPG, companions should be taken for their story / quest / interaction.

Bad Builds are worse than Perfect Builds.

[gkathellar]

 

Perfect build are not interestring, it's an RPG, companions should be taken for their story / quest / interaction.

Bad Builds are worse than Perfect Builds.

 

 

What. No, come on man, don't you know anything? If you put any thought whatsoever into building an effective character, you're a huge munchkin who doesn't know REAL ROLEPLAYING.

Edited March 27, 2015 by gkathellar

[Bryy]

 

 

Perfect build are not interestring, it's an RPG, companions should be taken for their story / quest / interaction.

Bad Builds are worse than Perfect Builds.

 

 

What. No, come on man, don't you know anything? If you put any thought whatsoever into building an effective character, you're a huge munchkin who doesn't know REAL ROLEPLAYING.

 

One of my pet peeves is the Moral Crusader that tries to break the game under the disguise of RPing.

[BrokenMask]

Eh, they are fine on normal at least(Eder works fine as damage dealer/distraction, Adoth dies fast but does lots of damage with spells(I guess more optimized wizard would do even more but on normal this is fine) and Durance insta kills undead with holy radiance), but then again I'm not really interested in optimization too much.

 

Not sure how bad or good my barbarian is, I ended up having 19 19 11 7 15 7 if I recall right... I guess that is bit optimized accidentally since I did lower the stats game didn't reccomend as important stats

[Bryy]

Not sure how bad or good my barbarian is, I ended up having 19 19 11 7 15 7

..... how?