Press Release Version of Eder's, Aloth's, Kana's, & Durance's Attribute Spread

[Shdy314]

the other joinables will be similar in that how they is level'd is gonna have as much/more impact than starting attributes.  durance will never be tanky, regardless o' his resolve, but he will be a very reliable support/heals.  like it or not, aloth's effectiveness will be determined more by how you got your grimoire(s) filled than the attribute spreads-- use spells even remotely coherent, and he will be almost indispensable. etc.  am not worried about the joinables based on initial attribute allocations.  

 

that being said, am far more concerned with talents and abilities.  these joinables can be well and fully buggar'd if they gots horrible talent and ability selections and they is already level'd to 3 or 4 or whatever.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Durance has Bear's Fortitude and the earliest you could possibly grab anyone is level 2. No way to save that talent.

Aloth has Blast.

Eder has Rapid Recovery and Knockdown.

Kana has Ancient Memory. If their Bones still slept. March of the Kamoa? Thunder Rolled.

 

Kana doesnt have an 18 INT he has a 17 INT. He comes with a hat that gives +1 INT. This is why he has an extra attribute point.

[Luckmann]

Well, anyways, looks like some of us are going to want a Level 1 NPCs mod to let us mess around with companion stats a little.

 

 

 

 Though it seems Pelle is going to have to suck it up and tank (unless, of course, she's full of crap design as well).

 

paladin tanks are a bit misleading. sure, they got great potential defenses, but tanking is as much about getting and holding aggro as it is about being a damage sink.  fighters got superior engagement when in defender mode. fighter abilities is also more tank focused than is paladin abilities.  am of the opinion that the deeper you get into the game, the paladin-as-tank builds will be decreasing in efficacy.  that being said, particular on normal mode, we expect that the paladin will suffice in the tank role, even if it ultimately is not as impressive as a fighter tank.. or a monk tank.

 

Engagement really isn't as important for tanking as it pretends to be. If you play with the mechanic turned off via mod, it becomes apparent that just having your tanks in front (and in the fight first) is the main determining factor. Between Faith and Conviction, Righteous Soul, and the various Exhortations, I think they'll work pretty well all the way through at the two things that matter - soaking up damage, and using occasional support abilities.

 

Anyway, I hope you're wrong, because support-tank is really the only role in which paladins can excel.

 

Pretty much what I was going to say, Engagement doesn't matter at all for tanking. For some reason, they want to make us believe that it does, but it doesn't. Either way, the Fighter would only have +1 Engagement over the Paladin, and if tanking depended too much on Engagement (such as the enemies flat-out ignoring tanks if they aren't Engaged) it would lead to the situation where the tanks would become so useless you could practically ignore them in any encounter featuring hostiles in excess of party members.

 

As for the Paladin thing... true, absolutely true, but in defiance of reality, I intend to prove you wrong with my high-RES, high-PER, No-Armour, Rapier Duelist Bleak Walker Paladin! (whether he'll actually be human or deathlike is up in the air at present). I'm going to attempt to fix the Attributes, though, but that's somewhat beside the point.

 

 

My current standing suggestion:

 

Suggested Modifiers:

MGT: +3% Damage & Healing, +2 Interrupt +2 Fortitude.
CON: +1 Endurance & Health, +3% Endurance & Health, +2% Concentration, +2 Fortitude.
DEX: +3% Action Speed, +2 Deflection +2 Reflex.
PER: +1 Accuracy, +4 Interrupt, +2 Reflex.
INT: +6% Duration, +2 Deflection, +2 Will.
RES: +6% AoE, +6% Concentration, +2 Will.

• There would be a greater synergy between some of the Attributes, for focused builds, such as a interrupter (Interrupt) that hits hard (MGT) and precise (PER) with every blow, the intelligent (INT) and nimble (DEX) warrior playing on his defensive strengths (Deflection), or a focused (RES) and athletic (CON) man that pushes through no matter how hard he's hit (Concentration).
  
• Intellect would now be an option for the intelligent, defensive warrior.
  
• Intellect would no longer be the one-stop-shop for casters.
  
• Resolve reaffirms it's position as the Attribute that represents a character's power (or wish) to influence the world or not be influenced by it.
  
• Constitution is no longer largely meaningless, and slightly less of a dump stat. A small but significant boost, but mostly conceptually. Assuming a Con of 20 ("fully maxed") the flat modifier to Health & Endurance is equal to one extra level's worth for Wizards (10/level), but not near as much to Barbarians (16/level).
  
• Perception may appear overvalued again, but do note that the bonus to interrupt has been cut in half.
  

 

 

 

 

[budyn]

 

Well, anyways, looks like some of us are going to want a Level 1 NPCs mod to let us mess around with companion stats a little.

 

 

 

 Though it seems Pelle is going to have to suck it up and tank (unless, of course, she's full of crap design as well).

 

paladin tanks are a bit misleading. sure, they got great potential defenses, but tanking is as much about getting and holding aggro as it is about being a damage sink.  fighters got superior engagement when in defender mode. fighter abilities is also more tank focused than is paladin abilities.  am of the opinion that the deeper you get into the game, the paladin-as-tank builds will be decreasing in efficacy.  that being said, particular on normal mode, we expect that the paladin will suffice in the tank role, even if it ultimately is not as impressive as a fighter tank.. or a monk tank.

 

Engagement really isn't as important for tanking as it pretends to be. If you play with the mechanic turned off via mod, it becomes apparent that just having your tanks in front (and in the fight first) is the main determining factor. Between Faith and Conviction, Righteous Soul, and the various Exhortations, I think they'll work pretty well all the way through at the two things that matter - soaking up damage, and using occasional support abilities.

 

Anyway, I hope you're wrong, because support-tank is really the only role in which paladins can excel.

 

Pretty much what I was going to say, Engagement doesn't matter at all for tanking. For some reason, they want to make us believe that it does, but it doesn't. Either way, the Fighter would only have +1 Engagement over the Paladin, and if tanking depended too much on Engagement (such as the enemies flat-out ignoring tanks if they aren't Engaged) it would lead to the situation where the tanks would become so useless you could practically ignore them in any encounter featuring hostiles in excess of party members.

 

As for the Paladin thing... true, absolutely true, but in defiance of reality, I intend to prove you wrong with my high-RES, high-PER, No-Armour, Rapier Duelist Bleak Walker Paladin! (whether he'll actually be human or deathlike is up in the air at present). I'm going to attempt to fix the Attributes, though, but that's somewhat beside the point.

 

 

My current standing suggestion:

Suggested Modifiers:

MGT: +3% Damage & Healing, +2 Interrupt +2 Fortitude.
CON: +1 Endurance & Health, +3% Endurance & Health, +2% Concentration, +2 Fortitude.
DEX: +3% Action Speed, +2 Deflection +2 Reflex.
PER: +1 Accuracy, +4 Interrupt, +2 Reflex.
INT: +6% Duration, +2 Deflection, +2 Will.
RES: +6% AoE, +6% Concentration, +2 Will.

• There would be a greater synergy between some of the Attributes, for focused builds, such as a interrupter (Interrupt) that hits hard (MGT) and precise (PER) with every blow, the intelligent (INT) and nimble (DEX) warrior playing on his defensive strengths (Deflection), or a focused (RES) and athletic (CON) man that pushes through no matter how hard he's hit (Concentration).
• Intellect would now be an option for the intelligent, defensive warrior.
• Intellect would no longer be the one-stop-shop for casters.
• Resolve reaffirms it's position as the Attribute that represents a character's power (or wish) to influence the world or not be influenced by it.
• Constitution is no longer largely meaningless, and slightly less of a dump stat. A small but significant boost, but mostly conceptually. Assuming a Con of 20 ("fully maxed") the flat modifier to Health & Endurance is equal to one extra level's worth for Wizards (10/level), but not near as much to Barbarians (16/level).
• Perception may appear overvalued again, but do note that the bonus to interrupt has been cut in half.

 

 

 

 

 

actually i think youre wrong, the point of engagement is that the opponent cant go thru your tank, if he does, the tank will score disengagement hit/hits.So now if your tank got 3 guys engaged, he can score those extra hits to all 3 of them if they try to  move to your back row

[Luckmann]

actually i think youre wrong, the point of engagement is that the opponent cant go thru your tank, if he does, the tank will score disengagement hit/hits.So now if your tank got 3 guys engaged, he can score those extra hits to all 3 of them if they try to  move to your back row

Oh god, can you please quit trawling around threads looking to come with input on things you know nothing about? It's getting incredibly tiresome and you're just coming across as an edgy try-hard contrarian.

 

Yes, if someone Engages the Tank and then tries to move away from him, he can score Disengagement hits on them. But as gkathellar clarified, even if you remove Engagement entirely, it doesn't change anything; they engage the Tank based on proximity and targeting, not based on Engagement or lack thereof. So it doesn't matter if the tank can Engage 2 or 3 opponents, because those opponents will target the tank anyway; they won't run past him.

 

And if too much emphasis would be placed on Engagement, it wouldn't matter whether the tank can Engage 2 or 3 opponents in any situation that went above that number of opponents, because it would trivialize the tank's value as the opponents runs past him as soon as he's tied up with the maximum number of opponents he can Engage.

 

I think that much like myself, you want to like Engagement based on the pitch, but it's not a very valuable mechanic in terms of tanking. It primarily an issue for the player, not the AI, because the AI is dumb as a brick and if it wasn't, the player would be in for a terrible, terrible time in terms of tanking because the enemy tends to outnumber any number of opponents the player could realistically tank.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[Zwiebelchen]

 

Companions' stats reflect the narrative team's vision for that character. Aloth, as previewed during the PAX East stream, is a know-it-all, see-it-all type guy, which maps to high Perception and Intelligence. I have no idea why people expect companions to be min-maxed combat gods.

 

Blame the decision-making process that made Perception useless for Wizards.

 

 

 

how come durance and kana have + 19 stats?

 

Racial and Cultural bonuses. You can get Might up to 21 with an Aumaua with the right culture.

 

no no you didnt understand mate, what iam saying is how they can have + 19 additional stats. when everyone else have 18 and the char u create has 18 aswell ( 15 + racial +2, culture + 1 )

 

 

There's a long tradition of companions in these types of games having ridiculously overinflated stats. I'd be disappointed if some the companions weren't cheating.

 

 

Haha and then there were also characters with stat distributions that looked like someone forgot to add sidestats after the initial draft. Hello 10-in-four Edwin. Good thing he made up for the terrible stat distribution with a borderline cheating amulett.

 

... and then there were characters that were bad from the raw stat distribution, but became unstoppable killing machines when equipped with certain items.

Hello Korgan with 18 DEX gloves...

 

So I wouldn't value the initial stat distribution of NPCs that high. They probably get some story-boosts to certain attributes via user-restricted items.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[gkathellar]

 

 

Companions' stats reflect the narrative team's vision for that character. Aloth, as previewed during the PAX East stream, is a know-it-all, see-it-all type guy, which maps to high Perception and Intelligence. I have no idea why people expect companions to be min-maxed combat gods.

 

Blame the decision-making process that made Perception useless for Wizards.

 

 

 

how come durance and kana have + 19 stats?

 

Racial and Cultural bonuses. You can get Might up to 21 with an Aumaua with the right culture.

 

no no you didnt understand mate, what iam saying is how they can have + 19 additional stats. when everyone else have 18 and the char u create has 18 aswell ( 15 + racial +2, culture + 1 )

 

 

There's a long tradition of companions in these types of games having ridiculously overinflated stats. I'd be disappointed if some the companions weren't cheating.

 

 

Haha and then there were also characters with stat distributions that looked like someone forgot to add sidestats after the initial draft. Hello 10-in-four Edwin. Good thing he made up for the terrible stat distribution with a borderline cheating amulett.

 

... and then there were characters that were bad from the raw stat distribution, but became unstoppable killing machines when equipped with certain items.

Hello Korgan with 18 DEX gloves...

 

So I wouldn't value the initial stat distribution of NPCs that high. They probably get some story-boosts to certain attributes via user-restricted items.

 

 

Maybe. But until we see, I don't think there's any reason to predict that this will be the case. I have yet to encounter evidence that the developers know the ins and outs of their game nearly as well as they think they do, and I get the consistent impression that it's because they haven't tried pushing its mechanics to their outer limits.

[Odd Hermit]

Well, they're 1 for 4, Kana is actually not terrible. 

But I feel like the best difficulty is something between hard and path of the damned, so maybe hard with terrible attribute spread on most of my characters will provide that.

[Gromnir]

is weird.  in multiple threads we got folks complaining how the engagement system hinders combat movement. at the same time, when a fighter can actual engage three foes, some o' the same folks is trying to tell us that engagement is pointless.  is weird.  

 

engagement for the tank is more significant than many s'pose, particularly in synergy with other abilities and other classes, but there is no way we is gonna be able to convince anybody at this point.  ability to hold 3 opponents is just one tanky ability fighters have that paladins do not.  perhaps paladins make up for the lack o' pure tanky abilities with their impressive selection o' buffs and cleanses?  is worthy debate material and we have no doubt that a defense focused paladin will be a viable tank regardless o' whether or not it is optimal.  

 

folks is so easily distracted, but am thinking it helps prove a point-- you not need optimal to be successful in poe.  the starting attributes in poe is ultimately less important than the abilities and talents a character will acquire.  start attributes are having impact, but they is only one aspect 'mongst many factors that will determine character efficacy.  the game were designed to be more balanced than the typical crpg, and so it is.  sure, there will be exploits that will need obsidian attention, but non-optimal attributes or  a couple bad talents won't cripple or even hinder a joinable.  on the other hand if obsidian combines  bad attributes,  plus bad abilities, plus bad talent selections, plus recruiting at post level 2, then we has the potential for a few teeth gnashing moments.  

 

for now, am cautiously optimistic.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Luckmann]

is weird.  in multiple threads we got folks complaining how the engagement system hinders combat movement. at the same time, when a fighter can actual engage three foes, some o' the same folks is trying to tell us that engagement is pointless.  is weird.  

 

[...]

Is weird, it's almost as if there's a different form of impact depending on who is engaging who, and who has numeric superiority.

 

Hurrrrrrrrr.

 

There's a difference between the player being engaged and the enemies being engaged. I believe I covered this earlier, but I know you have troubles understanding simple points.

[Gromnir]

 

is weird.  in multiple threads we got folks complaining how the engagement system hinders combat movement. at the same time, when a fighter can actual engage three foes, some o' the same folks is trying to tell us that engagement is pointless.  is weird.  

 

[...]

 but I know you have troubles understanding simple points.

 

going for irony?

 

*shrug*

 

then again we did mention only a post ago that people is easily distracted and we knew that convincing folks that a tank skill were useful for a tank character would be difficult at this point. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps complete aside, but we were playing with chanters in anticipation o' utilizing kana, and it seems that "thick grew their tongues"  is working opposite o' what we expected.  'course interrupt related talents and abilities all seem a bit weird at this point. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Gromnir

[Luckmann]

 

 

is weird.  in multiple threads we got folks complaining how the engagement system hinders combat movement. at the same time, when a fighter can actual engage three foes, some o' the same folks is trying to tell us that engagement is pointless.  is weird.  

 

[...]

 but I know you have troubles understanding simple points.

 

going for irony?

 

*shrug*

 

then again we did mention only a post ago that people is easily distracted and we knew that convincing folks that a tank skill were useful for a tank character would be difficult at this point. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps complete aside, but we were playing with chanters in anticipation o' utilizing kana, and it seems that "thick grew their tongues"  is working opposite o' what we expected.  'course interrupt related talents and abilities all seem a bit weird at this point. 

 

 

That's.. I think that's the first time I see a reverse strawman. Is that a thing these days? Is there a term for it?

[budyn]

 

actually i think youre wrong, the point of engagement is that the opponent cant go thru your tank, if he does, the tank will score disengagement hit/hits.So now if your tank got 3 guys engaged, he can score those extra hits to all 3 of them if they try to  move to your back row

Oh god, can you please quit trawling around threads looking to come with input on things you know nothing about? It's getting incredibly tiresome and you're just coming across as an edgy try-hard contrarian.

 

Yes, if someone Engages the Tank and then tries to move away from him, he can score Disengagement hits on them. But as gkathellar clarified, even if you remove Engagement entirely, it doesn't change anything; they engage the Tank based on proximity and targeting, not based on Engagement or lack thereof. So it doesn't matter if the tank can Engage 2 or 3 opponents, because those opponents will target the tank anyway; they won't run past him.

 

And if too much emphasis would be placed on Engagement, it wouldn't matter whether the tank can Engage 2 or 3 opponents in any situation that went above that number of opponents, because it would trivialize the tank's value as the opponents runs past him as soon as he's tied up with the maximum number of opponents he can Engage.

 

I think that much like myself, you want to like Engagement based on the pitch, but it's not a very valuable mechanic in terms of tanking. It primarily an issue for the player, not the AI, because the AI is dumb as a brick and if it wasn't, the player would be in for a terrible, terrible time in terms of tanking because the enemy tends to outnumber any number of opponents the player could realistically tank.

 

you are saying that i write bout things i dont know nothing about and next line of text you say exact same thing i've just said? srsly either calm the **** down and rethink what you wanna say or gtfo to some reddit and insult people there.I saw few movies in which mobs tended to run/aim 2nd row party members not even looking at the tank.So no you're not right, and no engage isnt bad mechanic.The AI obviously need polish but thats all in it.

And again if you want to deny what someone is saying you have to bring some facts, not pulling out trash out of your not so heave head , cause what i've said about engagement as mechanic is a fact.But how it works in this game vs this AI ? Didnt put that topic into any of my discussion.

So stop runing around topics instulting people cause you will get baned pretty ****ing quick.

 

ah and btw, yes you're a total ****ing strawman,

Edited March 24, 2015 by budyn

[Voss]

You're using that phrase wrong.  An argument can be a strawman argument, but a person can't be a strawman.  Unless literally made of straw, at which point it is time to check to see if you're in Oz. 

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

is weird.  in multiple threads we got folks complaining how the engagement system hinders combat movement. at the same time, when a fighter can actual engage three foes, some o' the same folks is trying to tell us that engagement is pointless.  is weird.  

 

[...]

 but I know you have troubles understanding simple points.

 

going for irony?

 

*shrug*

 

then again we did mention only a post ago that people is easily distracted and we knew that convincing folks that a tank skill were useful for a tank character would be difficult at this point.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps complete aside, but we were playing with chanters in anticipation o' utilizing kana, and it seems that "thick grew their tongues"  is working opposite o' what we expected.  'course interrupt related talents and abilities all seem a bit weird at this point. 

 

 

That's.. I think that's the first time I see a reverse strawman. Is that a thing these days? Is there a term for it?

 

until folks take a test on their reading o' copi, there should be a prohibition on their use o', or references to,  logic fallacies.  say, "strawman" is not like abracadabra or hocus pocus, chum.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 24, 2015 by Gromnir

[Kordanor]

Can we get back to the topic please?

 

Does anyone know any skill bonuses of the companions yet?

[TrueMenace]

Can we get back to the topic please?

 

Does anyone know any skill bonuses of the companions yet?

That would require a brave soul to sift through YouTube/Twitch Archives that contain crap tons of spoilerific content to find the skill bonuses. 

 

Also, most YouTubers/Streamers don't even know how to access the Character Sheet. Your best bet would be to ask Sensuki since he has the Press Release copy.

[Shdy314]

I guess this was missed in all the constant engagement "discussion" for the millionth time?

 

Durance has Bear's Fortitude and the earliest you could possibly grab anyone is level 2. No way to save that talent.

Aloth has Blast.

Eder has Rapid Recovery and Knockdown.

Kana has Ancient Memory. If their Bones still slept. March of the Kamoa? Thunder Rolled.

 

Kana doesnt have an 18 INT he has a 17 INT. He comes with a hat that gives +1 INT. This is why he has an extra attribute point.

 

 

That would require a brave soul to sift through YouTube/Twitch Archives that contain crap tons of spoilerific content to find the skill bonuses. 

 

Also, most YouTubers/Streamers don't even know how to access the Character Sheet. Your best bet would be to ask Sensuki since he has the Press Release copy.

 

Actually no it wouldn't.

 

Eder has Athletics 5 Lore 1 Survival 2 at level 2

Aloth has Lore 7 Mechanics 1 at level 2

Durance has Stealth 2 Athletics 1 Lore 4 Mechanics 3 at level 3

Kana has Stealth 2 Lore 7 Mechanics 1 at level 3

 

Could be changed in Day 1 patch but I doubt it.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Shdy314

[Kordanor]

Yeah, but the information in this thread is from these builds anyways. So maybe someone already saw something

 

Don't want to bother Sensuki with these kind of questions as well. I think I will reserve him for mechanics questions to not annoy him too much. ^^

[Kordanor]

 

Eder has Athletics 5 Stealth 1 Survival 2 at level 2

Aloth has Lore 7 Mechanics 1 at level 2

Durance has Stealth 2 Athletics 1 Lore 4 Mechanics 3 at level 3

Kana has Stealth 2 Lore 7 Mechanics 1 at level 3

 

Could be changed in Day 1 patch but I doubt it.

Thanks! But do you also know how much of these points are bonus points? Imho this is the most interesting. The couple of points in the beginning are rather irrelevant if the increase of 9 to 10 costs 10 points then and 55 points total, leaving 11 points for the rest.

 

Edit: or to be more specific: I am hoping to find one character I can use for Stealth ~10 and Mechanics ~10 (+3 or so in athletics) as I don't want to cover that with my main character and want that combined on one char.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Kordanor

[Shdy314]

Thanks! But do you also know how much of these points are bonus points? Imho this is the most interesting. The couple of points in the beginning are rather irrelevant if the increase of 9 to 10 costs 10 points then and 55 points total, leaving 11 points for the rest.

 

Edit: or to be more specific: I am hoping to find one character I can use for Stealth ~10 and Mechanics ~10 (+3 or so in athletics) as I don't want to cover that with my main character and want that combined on one char.

 

Well the class bonus points for

Fighters  Athletics 1 Lore 1 Survival 1

Wizards  Lore 2 Mechanics 1

Priests Athletics 1 Lore 2

Chanters Lore 2 Mechanics 1

 

Some companions have unique backgrounds

Eder Farmer It must have Survival 1 Athletics 1 as that explains Eders skill spread

Aloth Gentry I assume it's like Aristocrat Lore +2

Durance Clergyman Not unique Lore +2

Kana Scholar Not unique Lore +2

 

At level 2 6 skill points available

At level 3 12 skills points available 

I dont know for sure if they have unspent points but they might

 

So do the math

Eder put 6 points in Athletics

Aloth clearly put 6 points into Lore

Durance put 6 points in Mechanics and 3 in Stealth though he has no class bonuses to these things so maxing them will become prohibitively expensive.

Kana has put 6 points in Lore and and 3 points in Stealth

Durance and Kana seem to have unspent skill points. They may have extra skill points available at levelup as you can hoard skill points.

 

Your best hope is Grieving Mother as Ciphers have a +1 to Stealth and Mechanics. Or accept 10/10 isnt going to happen and compromise with high mechanics and middling Stealth.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Shdy314

[Doxy]

 

Edit: or to be more specific: I am hoping to find one character I can use for Stealth ~10 and Mechanics ~10 (+3 or so in athletics) as I don't want to cover that with my main character and want that combined on one char.

 

For that, your main got to be a Rogue with a +mechanics/stealth background.

[Kordanor]

Cool, thanks a lot! Though it's not working in my favor. ^^

 

@Doxy: Well, that would just be the optimal case. 8 stealth or so might work as well. Also some items might help.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Kordanor

[Gromnir]

it's so gauche linking to our own posts, but...

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70208-who-fills-the-rogue-shoes/?p=1564919

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Shdy314]

No idea why people think you must have a maxed Stealth AND Mechanics. You just need someone near the front with Mechanics to detect the traps before you walk into them (finding hidden loot doesn't need Stealth). Otherwise Stealth doesn't do anything but let you get close to enemies (and steal). 

 

You can have a stealthy trap disarming guy. Especially with items. You just cant be as good at both as someone who specializes in one.

[Kordanor]

Well, my perspective is the following:

 

1. Let the stealth guy scout. While sneaking around he is not detected by enemies but suddenly "finds" a track by stepping into it.

2. You let the mechanics guy scout: you find all the traps before you step into them. But as soon as he "finds" enemies he is screwed.

 

So if nothing else, having both on the same character would be very convenient as you would only need one character for scouting.