Ranger Status - Pre Launch

[knightguy]

Hey everyone, games almost out, I'm excited.  Spring Break + Game Release = Happy Camper

My question to you all, since I haven't had a chance to test out rangers since January, is what's the state of the Ranger class?  Have they changed much?  Better, worse, or more of the same?  Pet management - enjoyable or a chore?  What's a good way to build them?

Thanks for any info!

[Sensuki]

Still the worst class in the game IMO. Design-wise and implementation wise.

 

They're a bit less terrible in v480, but no news on any tweaks in between.

I think it would be good to look at them again in the expansion like what happened in D&D 3.5E 

Edited March 21, 2015 by Sensuki

[Valmy]

While not ideal, in a single player game you can still have fun with a gimpy class. Are they fun or a challenge? Or are they bad plus boring? Obviously not an objective rating here.

[wanderon]

I like them myself - not a powerhouse but with some synergy with your pet can be relatively effective - I've had pretty decent luck recently with antelope - (best defenses of pets or so the game claims) and it does seem to stay alive relatively well making it a sort of mini tank (if you stretch it a bit) 

[Sensuki]

I don't think they're very fun - and I like summon type classes, but that's just me.

[DigitalCrack]

Ranger disappoints me because all I see is wasted potential. They could have done something far more interesting than ranged pet wielder and even then they managed to make it not as interesting as it could be... Hopefully they have (or will) made some big changes between beta and release version.

[Lephys]

Yeah, I mean, as long as you don't make a party of 6 Rangers, you should be fine in terms of class deficiencies, I suppose.

[mutonizer]

Hmmm, gotta chime in here since I've been doing runs with rangers lately, as usual, on PotD...

 

At first, was just to goof around and ended up with some 1hd stiletto wielding (not dual wield, 1hd), hide wearing crazy woman and her wolf....and they were doing a pretty good job on their own moving around and cleaning up isolated backliners.

 

After that, I tested with adding another ranger, replacing my 2hd barbarian with the crazy magic sword. And that one just annihilated ANYTHING in sight, landing crits after crits and insane damage.

 

Figured "hmmm, them got really nice ACC and that pet is damn nice". Then a flash....The ranger...TANK.

 

Ah oh man, do they own!

Apart from a low Endurance (36 compared to 42 with fighter and 2 less per level) and 5 less base DEF, Ranger have very good base stats for tanking.

With pet bonds, you can get ACC bonus AND damage and flanking options and potential quick off tank (the pet) if needed. Not being to do damage is the big problem with tanks usually but not for Rangers, these guys are great at both as long as the pet is alive and if the pet dies, well, you're just left with another normal tank at worst.

They get very nice AOE and Range specific DEF bonus later on.

Their CC abilities are really cool AND usable at range, which to me is the main problem on other tanks. Root is long duration and great on engagement, KD is on the pet, which means you can send him around to KD that caster.

 

 

 

To be honest, at this point, I'm close to just make 2 ranger tanks and 2 ranger melee dps and call it a day but inability to colorize pets would make it a nightmare. I'll make a ranger tank main though, that's for sure now.

 

Might seem gimmicky but try them out, they're really, really good when you use them proper and they're quite epic as tanks.

Edited March 21, 2015 by mutonizer

[Sensuki]

In the last few builds, I think the consensus has been that rangers are better at melee than ranged - I think that's not exactly the aim for the class, or what people were expecting which is where some of the disappointment comes from.

I haven't done too much mucking around with them so far, but I'll def try that out sometime.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Sensuki

[mutonizer]

In the last few builds, I think the consensus has been that rangers are better at melee than ranged - I think that's not exactly the aim for the class, or what people were expecting which is where some of the disappointment comes from.

 

I haven't done too much mucking around with them so far, but I'll def try that out sometime.

Always took rangers as barbarians with pets personally but never really bothered trying them out that much. Their true power comes from sneak attacking pets ontop of easy flanking ability and crazy ACC boost pet bond though. That combo is just crazy, no other character in my group even came close to 100ish ACC by level 8.

That 2hd wielding one I tried simply annihilated any other melee DPS build of any other class I tried in seconds: crit crit crit crit, with pet itself doing 20-30 damage a pop.

 

Even melee spec though, they can pull back and shoot from range quite nicely. Swift aim works both for melee and ranged attacks and pets can really roam around to grant that bond bonus. DPS ranger suck balls though without pet, while tank ranger are still awesome tanks, they just REALLY can't hit **** (but between hitting nothing and really hitting nothing, who cares).

Edited March 21, 2015 by mutonizer

[roguelike]

Can you say what Tank Ranger has to recommend it?  On paper, at level 4, rangers are down 5 deflection and 10 all defense to a fighter with wary defender and have traded constant recovery for an animal companion.  At level 5, fighters get 15 seconds of +20 defense every fight and rangers get a +15 to AoEs, a bonus unlikely to consistently mitigate as much damage as vigorous defense.  From there, it doesn't seem to get better.

 

 

[mutonizer]

Oh, and to answer the OP.

 

• Pet management is a bit of an issue. You cannot colorize pets, so multiple rangers with same kind of pet will make it very hard to sort them out, forcing you to mouse hover to check for names all the time. Would be nice to be able to change the pet color a bit. That said, you can click directly on their portrait within the ranger portrait (though they're a bit small) but above all, you can just CTRL+# and bind them (or group bind them, with ranger for example) to a specific number and call them from that.
• From all the pets I've tested, only wolf, bear and lion seemed worthwhile. Wolf has 10 default stats in everything but (though you can't check the math behind it) has slight boost to disengagement DEF and damage. Bear has great MIGHT/CON stats and slight DR boost, making it the best imho. Lion is very nice for the per encounter Frightened roar (which is nice for it's -10ACC on all affected enemies). Rest is very subpar in my book and Antelope DEF bonus isn't worth it to me. To each his own though. If you have a barbarian, chanter or other easy access Frightened state in the group, I'd say go Bear or Wolf. If not, go Lion.
• No matter the spec, they are very sub-par if you do not use their synergy with their pet bonds and that's something you might need to get used to. Sadly, pets create clutter and in tight corridors/choke-points, you won't be able to use the pet properly or it might be very risky, which will make the ranger lose some of it's potential.
• DPS rangers losing their pets are pretty much useless. The 20 ACC penalty that comes with it and inability to pet bond really screws them up. At that point, just send the ranger to sponge damage and don't waste any resources on them because they're just expendable.
• Tank rangers losing their pets remain very good tanks, hence my love for them. With pet they can dish out and take damage like champs (a huge issue otherwise for tanks). Without pets, they still keep 100% of their tanking potential, though the small WILL def penalty might hurt so you need to keep an eye on spells/effects for that.
• Pets do not really use Health, only Endurance. This makes them pretty awesome "oh ****, oh ****" off tanks and really good "raw damage sponge" if you need it. If they die, unlike your characters, their Health will still be maxed out, therefore never risking total death or forcing rest. They all have pretty decent Endurance as well and overall "off tank" like most other melee DPS such as paladins and barbarians.
• Ranger dying before pet still keeps the pet around though with some penalty as well but that means they just can't DPS anymore, but can still off tank in a pinch.

Hope that answers some of the questions.

Overall, don't be afraid to try one out after release but realize that the link between the ranger and his/her pet REALLY matters, so that's added complexity you don't have with other classes.

[Sensuki]

I think the Wolf stats might be a bug.

[mutonizer]

Can you say what Tank Ranger has to recommend it?  On paper, at level 4, rangers are down 5 deflection and 10 all defense to a fighter with wary defender and have traded constant recovery for an animal companion.  At level 5, fighters get 15 seconds of +20 defense every fight and rangers get a +15 to AoEs, a bonus unlikely to consistently mitigate as much damage as vigorous defense.  From there, it doesn't seem to get better.

 

• 15 AOE bonus (worst offender against tanks and usually comes with status effects) and later on bonus against ranged DPS (which REALLY ****s up your tanks due to raw damage, way more than melee unless it's poison and the like).
• Tanks cannot kill anything, which means that while your tank is tanking 2 or 3 guys, he'll still be tanking 2 or 3 guys at the end of the battle when your DPS comes around after mopping up the enemies DPSers (casters, ranged, etc). Ranger tanks CAN and WILL kill stuff. Flank with pet (-10 DEF), use pet bond (20 ACC boost) and you'll actually be cleaning up what you're tanking. That means in rough fights when end of the battle leaves you without resources and whatnot, you won't be left with a couple crazy high DEF/DR enemies that mops up your team.
• Their CC abilities later on are very, very good. You can root for crazy long and send the pet around to KD, unlike fighter who can only KD at close range (pretty much useless really). You can also send the pet to assist on DPS while the ranger is tanking, providing flanking options (and pretty good damage really) for other DPS.

 

So sure, they are slightly worse than pure fighter/paladin tanks but they can tank AND dps.

 

I'm not saying they are the end all of tanks and the lack of multiple engagement possibilities (unlike Fighters) can be an issue sometimes, but it brings a very viable and pretty good tank to the tanking pool.

Edited March 21, 2015 by mutonizer

[roguelike]

Fair enough that they do more damage, I just find myself not really caring about tank damage, the entire rest of your party is dedicated to dealing damage and will always be better at it.  Plate armor alone cuts tank dps by 30%, cautious attack by another 20%, a shield by another 10%, plus the enormous opportunity cost from not investing in damage abilities.  In a game where the defense increase is exponential, those 25 points of deflection could double the amount of hits you can survive.

[jones092201@gmail.com]

i love rangers. I've dreamed about being one since i read Lord of the Rings. I think that as long as they are defined by having a pet, they're never going to be the rugged, fast. skirmisher class i want them to be. Hopefully, OE will make them as awesome as they deserve in an expansion. If not, i can always (try and) build a sturdy rogue, or a fast fighter. either way, game comes out in a week. I tremble with anticipation. 

[knightguy]

Thanks for all the feedback! 

A ranger tank sounds like an interesting build!  Wasn't what I thought they could do, but I'll try building one eventually.  As for them being better at melee than range really is a let down, but i'll still give them a whirl!  I guess me ranger and wolf pair will have to sit on the back burner, will prolly try rogue my first play thru.

Thanks all!  Can't wait for next week, look forward to enjoying the game with everyone!

[Sensuki]

Try a Ranged Rogue instead.

[GreyZ]

I find rangers quite fun. They're very micro intensive if you want to use the pets effectively, but I enjoy that.

Simply having an additional body in the field gives you a nice tool for the engagement system. I've mainly used wolves personally due to their high movement speed and since they can disengage pretty easily.

 

I will typically have my tanks engage the enemy first before I send the pet in, to avoid it being the sole engagement target of an enemy. I'll then use it to create flanking for my melee characters or send it at targets of opportunity.

Another great use is to your pet to peel off engagement if an enemy makes it through your front (like a rogue with escape). You simply put your pet on that enemy and that can allow your ranged characters to retreat without provoking disengagement attacks since it will fill up the enemies engagement slot and you don't need to pull any of your main melee party members back to do that or waste recovery on a disengagement ability.

 

The pets are just a really cool tool and I feel people tend to not micro them enough to get the most out of them (which is understandable since not everyone likes to micro as much). Just gotta be especially careful to not cluster them with the rest of your frontline if you're facing an enemy with AoE attacks.

 

And of course your pet adds free interrupts on your enemies, which reduces some damage on your team. And yes some dps but it's not enough to be worth mentioning, they're far more utility than damage. Also love to use the wolf for scouting due to hits high movement speed.

 

As for the ranger himself, well as has been mentioned you can do melee builds if you go full on pet link build. Personally I prefer the ranged builds.

Doesn't have the burstiness that a rogue marksman has, but it's by no means bad.

 

I tend to go for gun multi-gun set builds, which works really well with the ranger. For one you have the Vicious Aim modal which is perfect for that since it increases your damage and hit chance quite significantly at an attack rate loss which doesnt impact you much in this case. Combine that with Penetrating Shot talent (you can have both modals active at the same time) and you output some respectable damage. If you're going for a single heavy hitter ranged build like an arbalest or arquebus without set switching I would go for Swift Aim and Gunner, combine that with a high dex and you can get an insanely high reload speed that no other class can match.

 

And of course you have Wounding shot which is ok. On paper it does a very high amount of damage, the problem though is that the DOT effect is over a waaay too long time, so it will only be max effective in prolonged fights and can also be countered by some spells. But it also has two engagement uses straight off the bat, which is ok considering the total damage on it. If they reduced the time on the dot, this could be a great ability.

 

Add to that Driving flight which adds a fun shotgun effect to your attacks and lets you wipe out mooks very efficiently especially with an arquebus or arbalest and altogether the ranger has a pretty respectable sustained ranged damage.

 

Also Master's call is an awesome awesome ability, if you micro your ranger and pet to get the most out of it.

Edited March 21, 2015 by GreyZ

[rheingold]

Yeah must say they make good ranged dps as well, those modals that they get give them an advantage over any other class except the rogue. I did a crossbow/gun build and he was quite wicked, you can keep penetratrating shot up and use either the speed or damage modal. Nice. High dex and gunner and nothing will come close, in terms of speed. They also have some other nice features which makes the decision between ranged rogue/ranger a matter of choice:) I'm not saying that they will out damage a rogue, but they are pretty good at range if as mutonizer says you take advantage of the companion. They are high maintenance though, maybe that's what people don't like. Still probably going to go rogue for my first play since none of the companions are rogues.

[mutonizer]

One thing that would be kinda nice though is various Circle sizes for pets.

Bear/Stag with bigger circles, Lion with normal character like sizes and Wolf/Antelopes with small circles. 

[Sensuki]

It used to be like that, but they made them smaller because of area transition problems - which I believe they fixed, but they haven't increased the circle sizes back.

 

I agree somewhat, but I don't think ANY unit should have smaller circles than characters.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Sensuki

[GreyZ]

Yeah must say they make good ranged dps as well, those modals that they get give them an advantage over any other class except the rogue. I did a crossbow/gun build and he was quite wicked, you can keep penetratrating shot up and use either the speed or damage modal. Nice. High dex and gunner and nothing will come close, in terms of speed. They also have some other nice features which makes the decision between ranged rogue/ranger a matter of choice:) I'm not saying that they will out damage a rogue, but they are pretty good at range if as mutonizer says you take advantage of the companion. They are high maintenance though, maybe that's what people don't like. Still probably going to go rogue for my first play since none of the companions are rogues.

Yeah and quite frankly if you are diligent with keeping debuffs up on enemies, a rogue will out damage any other class, be it ranged or melee if they are specced for it

 

And actually in a prolonged larger engagement a ranger doesn't stack up too bad against a rogue. Since you are not dependent on debuffs to max out your damage, you have some fantastic modals, you can have driving flight which passively gives you even more damage and you have an encounter ability that gives +100% damage on an attack (albeit over an insanely long duration).

That all adds up to some respectable sustained dps.

 

Granted alotta fights can be solved by instagibbing most of the enemy force wth quad blunderbuss, no argument against that, but some of the bigger encounters that I've seen do profit from having a solid sustained damage instead of just burst.

 

For me it's also personally a toss up between the two, but I think I might end up going with the ranger. I just enjoy the micro of the pet and the uility you get through it. Plus I like having my wolf right from the start of the game until the very end as my permanent companion, I'm just sentimental like that :D

Edited March 21, 2015 by GreyZ

[Sensuki]

Well at least Sagani probably won't be completely crap at combat then, that was my main concern.

[GreyZ]

Well at least Sagani probably won't be completely crap at combat then, that was my main concern.

Is there any information on if they level scale when you recruit them or if they come with preset talents? (ie do you risk picking up gimped versions if you do not recruit them asap)