Ukraine Discussion

[Malcador]

Harper is whoring for the 1 million or so Ukrainian Canadians here, that's all.

[BruceVC]

Harper is whoring for the 1 million or so Ukrainian Canadians here, that's all.

Oh....I never realised there were that many Ukrainians in Canada.

 

How are they, do they assimilate nicely into Canadian culture?

[obyknven]

French intelligence service don't find proofs of Russian aggression in Ukraine. 

 

http://fr.sputniknews.com/international/20150410/1015600534.html

 

Finnish military HQ  - "Russia is not military treat for Finland."

 

http://yle.fi/uutiset/komentaja_lindberg_pohjoismaista_yhteistyota_tehty_vuosia/7922941

[BruceVC]

French intelligence service don't find proofs of Russian aggression in Ukraine. 

 

http://fr.sputniknews.com/international/20150410/1015600534.html

 

Finnish military HQ  - "Russia is not military treat for Finland."

 

http://yle.fi/uutiset/komentaja_lindberg_pohjoismaista_yhteistyota_tehty_vuosia/7922941

 

"didnt find proof of Russian aggression " 

 

 

You not still telling us that Russia has not been involved in the Ukrainian conflict....I thought we had moved past that?

 

The negotiations are basically between Russia, certain Western countries  and the Ukrainian government so even Russia has admitted it is instrumental in the conflict 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-10/ukraine-cease-fire-negotiations-continue-as-does-the-fighting

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/as-ukraine-peace-negotiations-continue-war-intensifies/2015/02/12/e81403c4-b27f-11e4-886b-c22184f27c35_story.html

[Malcador]

 

Harper is whoring for the 1 million or so Ukrainian Canadians here, that's all.

Oh....I never realised there were that many Ukrainians in Canada.

 

How are they, do they assimilate nicely into Canadian culture?

 

Pretty much, at least in Toronto. They are mostly concentrated in a ex-borough to the west.

[cirdanx]

You not still telling us that Russia has not been involved in the Ukrainian conflict....I thought we had moved past that?

Excuse me, there is no moving past facts.

Let me be frank here, i´m not going to discuss here but simply put forward facts mixed with my opinion sometimes, if you choose to ignore them, feel free to do so. There is no point in having a one way discussion.

 

Also, your comment on how Russia works on the peace process is de-facto speaking for Russia in a good way and not against it. I might also add that i have zero respect for people who blindly follow the biased lies from mainstream media, especially when the are so obviously lies.

 

But let me explain: warning, long read.

 

1. How did it start?

There is a big backstory with the former president being corrupt and everything, but that is beside the point because all of them are and everyone can easily research the split opinion on Ukraine joining the EU (which would be bad for them and i have enough experince as an Austrian and we are even considered part of the "core" EU, the EU did nothing good for us) or the free Eurasian Trade zone (which would have been better for them, instead, they now have closed down all ties with the East, which is part of the reason the Ukraine now is a failed state, but more on that later.

 

The magic term here is "Coup d'état", in this case a violent overthrow of a legitimate elected goverment. That is what happened. Such things happen, however in this case it was also sponsored and initiated by Washington. Now that is nothing new, Washington is an expert in this and follows this sort of program for decades and when it works for them, they support the new goverment, and when not they attack them (see middle East).

 

But you don´t have to believe me, let´s see what people say who should know better than all of us ok?

 

A Ukraine Deputy in 2013 already knew it was happening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9hOl8TuBUM well thats interesting, but who sponsored this? Oh wait, we know who!

 

Victoria "**** the EU" Nuland in her own words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY Wow, isn´t that nice to know where US taxpayer money goes? 5 Billion overall to ensure Ukraine gets a pro-US goverment.

She was even so nice to handpick the NEW Ukraine leader days BEFORE the coup took place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaa-67yGM Oooops, maybe should have used a secure line there!

 

Of course others know that as well, like the Head of Stratfor, you know the global intelligence company that usually works for Washington? Well he made it pretty clear in an interview with the Russian magazine Kommersant that “It really was the most blatant coup in history.” (saddly in russian but there are translators: http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2636177)

 

Or how about a president, this time the Czech Republic’s President Milos Zeman who also made it clear that this had nothing to do with democracy? http://rt.com/news/219595-ukraine-prime-minister-war/

 

And for those who are still not convinced, let´s say what that scumbag Obama himself has to say about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QAXmf5_EOs Oh, he so "brokered" for power, I think that says it all. He was also so nice to let us all know WHY they did it in his speech: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/05/28/remarks-president-west-point-academy-commencement-ceremony Read that carefully, it´s pretty clear that the rising economic and military power

 

of Russia and China are the threat for them, because that would mean they can´t control everything anymore.

 

But don´t worry the Obama administration thinks americans are idiots anyway: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/11/3-videos-now-surfaced-obamacare-architect-saying-american-people-stupid-must-fooled.html

 

2. The results:

A civil war. The western part now controlled by the Junta attacks the Donbass, a region consisting of mostly russian speaking people with close ties to Russia who voted for the former president, under the laughable guise of an "anti-terror" movement. Openly attacking the civil population, because at that point there was no milita. Obviously it didn´t take long for the people living there taking up arms and striking back. Striking back they did, and kicked the Ukraine army in the ass several times. Despite being outnumbered. Sadly, having neither the man power nor the equpiment they couldn´t stop the constant shelling of villages, dense cities etc

 

A first person report from people living there: http://fortruss.blogspot.co.at/2015/01/humanitarian-crisis-in-novorossia-from.html

Using airstrikes on the population: http://rt.com/news/170104-ukraine-lugansk-shelling-airstrike/

Schools in Donbass: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/04/crimes-humanity-ukraine-president-poroshenko-keeps-word-weve-bombed-schools-donbass-children-dont-go-school.html

A long article with video links on how they are targeting civilians to "clean the cities" http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/ukraine-target-civilians-separatists-targeting-maps-prove.html

 

Even a simple google image search brings up enough to make you vomit....i don´t even want to post a link there..search foryourself but i warned you. I personaly know 2 people who lived in that region but could thankfully flee, their stories would make your soul cry out.

 

Nevermind all of this things are warcrimes by international law. But who cares about law when you use cluster bombs on inocent people?

 

But it also looks horrible for the west part of Ukraine, also called "Bandera", because Ukraine is a failed state, no money, no economy, no future right now. But nevermind, while people don´t get money and starve, at last the great president Poroshenko made millions last year alone, well he is an Oligarch after all and works as closely as he can with Washington, or do you believe its just an accident that Joe Biddens son now board director in an Oil and Gas company in Ukraine who start fracking the **** out of the country? Moving on.

 

3. But who does this?

Well the Junta is in power. Who are they? A right-wing Neo-Nazi movement thats what they are and they never hide it.

You know, this guys here: http://fortruss.blogspot.co.at/2015/01/azov-battalion-pose-with-hitlers.html

Just search for it, you will find tons of pictures like this from them, they are open about it.

 

My words don´t do justice to what comes from them, so why not let them speak for themself?

 

The mindset of a Ukrainian "bandarian" journalist: http://slavyangrad.org/2014/08/01/ukrainian-journalist-openly-calls-for-genocide-on-hromadske-tv-financed-by-us-and-netherlands/

The Ukranian "princess (more pschyo)" Yulia Tymoshenko: http://rt.com/news/tymoshenko-calls-destroy-russia-917/

Poroshenkos terror promise to the Donbass: http://russia-insider.com/en/military_ukraine/2014/11/17/06-22-28pm/poroshenko_promises_win_east_ukraine_using_terror

 

There is more, but thats enough to see what kind of people this are. You can also find enough videos of them beating the crap out of normal people and politicans who don´t stand in line with them.

 

4. The lie of the Russian threat.

Well we allready have this posted but it´s important that France says there is no threat: http://rt.com/news/248877-france-ukraine-russian-military/

The thing is, it´s not only france.

Let´s see what Germany has to say? http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/09/4261 Oh, hm, thats kinda confusing isn´t it?

But why don´t we move on to the hell hole itself and ask the leading Ukrainian Military? http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150129/1017514425.html

Damn, now that is a statement isn´t it? There is even a youtube video of him if you want to listen to his own words.

 

So we have the european powers AND the Ukraine military itself saying that there is NO russian army in Ukraine. Well **** me, it can´t get anymore obvious now? Ok well maybe we could also take in account that everytime a NATO or US tool opens there mouth about some fictional invasion or troops in the thousands they have no proof, which alone is a joke considering their intelligence, satellites and constant visits of US Navy spy vessels in the black sea. Yet, not one real image or video in our times. Right, that makes sense.

 

On a side note, IF the russian army would invade Ukraine it would be over in no time and there would be NOTHING Europe or the US could do about it. Also the Kremlin gave the President the power to send troops there and HE chose NOT to do it.

 

4. Crimea

Let´s get the obvious out of the way. Crimea was NEVER really Ukraine. It is historical russian territory, i´m not going to explain the whole history, look it up yourself. It only way part of Ukraine because a uky president "gifted" it to Ukraine, which itself is allready not legal considering the people there are russian and never wanted that. Also, we could call them a federation in the Ukraine, they had mostly their own ruling. It was also not the first time they tried to get away and back to Russia where THEY feel they belong.

 

It should also be noted that the Russian troops in Crimea are there legaly. The had rented the Sewastopol post and infact could have send more troops until the maximum of the contract would have been reached. It should also be noted that the dissarming of the Ukrainian troops there went peacefully.

 

Now here comes the problem, was it legal? I would say yes and no. By UN charta it is not legal to come in there by force. However, i could also argument that a Coup d'état is not legal thus making the current goverment illegal. Especially with outside involement. But the UN charta also says that the people could hold a referendum, you know, the right to vote. Meaning while, the first phase might be illegal, the referendum wasnt, and lets not forget that it was pretty clear that the russians living there wanted to get aways from Ukraine, and that is their right, they tried it often enough in the past.

 

Also there were over 70 international observers present and not even ONE could find something fishy with it. That makes the re-unification of Crimea with Russia more legal than the re-unification of germany or the annexation of Texas from Mexico by the USA or the annexation of the Falklands by UK. Get your history straight and stop with silly double standarts. In the end it doesn´t matter if it´s legal, Crimea is happy to be back and it would take a full front on war to size it from russia, nothing more or less. Sorry Obama, no warm waterport for you there.

 

5. Future outlook and ending.

I don´t know what happen, but this is not the end. What could save the Ukraine would be second "Maidan" to get ride of the junta. Otherwise the fighting will continue, Kiev is not holding to the Minsk agreement, just on Friday they startet shelling Donetsk almost the whole night. This alone should make clear who is the agressor here. If Washington is hard set on a war against russia because of geo-politcal reasons, we will all pay for it. Russia is not a helpless Afghanistan and even there the US couldn´t exactly "win". Or in other words?

 

Who started a Coup d'état in Ukraine? Washington

Who started attacking the Donbass? Kiev

Who broke the first cease fire? Kiev

Who is constantly breaking the second? Kiev

Who is shelling civilians and killing them? Kiev

Who is spreading racial slurs and asking for genocide? Kiev

 

Who is spreading lies and has no proof? Washington and their Nato arm

Who is waging a currency and economic war against the east? Washington

Who is sponsoring leathal weapons and thus undermining peace efforts started by Russia, Germany and France? Washington and it´s vassal states.

 

Thats all i have to say to this. If you still believe in the "us lead narrative" you are beyond reasoning and part of the problem in my eyes.

 

Hopefully some people could learn something from this, at last i want to add this video that sums up the US support very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-RyOaFwcEw

 

What a wall of text >.> I´m outa here

 

Edit: some typos..maybe more. live with it it´s not my native language.

Edited April 12, 2015 by cirdanx

[RedCat]

I've talked to a few western people (EU and US) and so alot of discussions about this and it all seems to have one thing in common - a severe underestimation of  relation between Russia and Ukraine. You probably heard somene said before that russians and ukranians are the same people? That actually true, for example any ukranian can speak perfect russian if he choses to do so, and most of them do. If, for example, i speak to ukranian i wouldnt tell him apart from any other russian for exept maybe slight accent, the example that comes to mind would be a differense in southern and northern american accent, or New York and New Jersey accents i think. 

Now to fully grasp what Ukraine events means to average russian, try to imagine a fictional situation like this: Lets say after WW2 for whatever reasons Mexica merged into US, and in 1991 instead of Soviet Union falling apart it happened to US instead, and lets say Texas,California, and Mexica split off into separate country under the name Mexica. So now Mexica has 3 states inside.  Then for 23 years up to 2014 both countries US and Mexica started to go separate ways, rebuilding its economy, regaining its power and so on. Now while US had its share of turbulance and power struggle, eventually, due to various reasons, US economy improved, quality of life improved. While Mexico at the same time was doing pretty badly between drug cartel wars, corrupt government, more corrupt government and overall economic decline. Now instead of improving the situation, Mexican govenment started a massive propaganda campaign that all Mexica troubles are caused by US and english language, and as soon as all mexicans(Texas and California included)  will stop using it and start speaking only spanish everything will magically became great. Now for people of Texas and California, who can see and compare their former country US and their current country Mexico you can imagine their love for the government grows. At the same time in addition to standart anti-US propaganda, Mexica adds another idea on the table: Lets join BRICS!

And while US points that half of Mexican industry sale their products to US which is not simply needed in BRICS, Mexica ignores that and continues to push. Finally at the febraury 2015, Mexican president overthrown in a coup by a junta. And the first declaration junta makes is abolishing of english as one of the state languages.

Now try to think what feelings people of Texas and California would have while watching all this happens?  Now substitute the following: Mexica = Ukraine, US = Russia, Texas = Donbass, California = Crimea. After that  try to revaluate Ukraine events again.

I skipped alot of details here and made some oversimplifications but i hope you got my point.

 

P.S. I apologies for any offence i might have caused to any forementioned party by this comparison.

[BruceVC]

I've talked to a few western people (EU and US) and so alot of discussions about this and it all seems to have one thing in common - a severe underestimation of  relation between Russia and Ukraine. You probably heard somene said before that russians and ukranians are the same people? That actually true, for example any ukranian can speak perfect russian if he choses to do so, and most of them do. If, for example, i speak to ukranian i wouldnt tell him apart from any other russian for exept maybe slight accent, the example that comes to mind would be a differense in southern and northern american accent, or New York and New Jersey accents i think. 

Now to fully grasp what Ukraine events means to average russian, try to imagine a fictional situation like this: Lets say after WW2 for whatever reasons Mexica merged into US, and in 1991 instead of Soviet Union falling apart it happened to US instead, and lets say Texas,California, and Mexica split off into separate country under the name Mexica. So now Mexica has 3 states inside.  Then for 23 years up to 2014 both countries US and Mexica started to go separate ways, rebuilding its economy, regaining its power and so on. Now while US had its share of turbulance and power struggle, eventually, due to various reasons, US economy improved, quality of life improved. While Mexico at the same time was doing pretty badly between drug cartel wars, corrupt government, more corrupt government and overall economic decline. Now instead of improving the situation, Mexican govenment started a massive propaganda campaign that all Mexica troubles are caused by US and english language, and as soon as all mexicans(Texas and California included)  will stop using it and start speaking only spanish everything will magically became great. Now for people of Txas and California, who can see and compare their former country US and their current country Mexico you can imagine their love for the government grows. At the same time in addition to standart anti-US propaganda, Mexica adds another idea on the table: Lets join BRICS!

And while US points that half of Mexican industry sale their products to US which is not simply needed in BRICS, Mexica ignores that and continues to push. Finally at the febraury 2015, Mexican president overthrown in a coup by a junta. And the first declaration junta makes is abolishing of english as one of the state languages.

Now try to think what feelings people of Texas and California would have while watching all this happens?  Now substitute the following: Mexica = Ukraine, US = Russia, Texas = Donbass, California = Crimea. After that  try to revaluate Ukraine events again.

I skipped alot of details here and made some oversimplifications but i hope you got my point.

 

P.S. I apologies for any offence i might have caused to any forementioned party by this comparison.

 

I have found this post particularly interesting, I find to be a reasonable explanation of how Russians see the Ukraine

 

I never really thought about it like that, I don't agree with everything you are saying but I will comment later as I want to read your post more attentively later, I'm at work now  

 

But I do appreciate your perspective on this matter, it is interesting as I said and you make relevant points

[obyknven]

Western military advisors in Ukraine.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Flifenews.ru%2Fnews%2F152546

5, 6, 13 positions of list  - two Lithuanian and one US military officers - same men "works" with rioters during Maidan coup in Kiev.

After coup they leave Ukraine but appeared again as OSCE observers. 

 

11 position of list is Hungarian officer Acs Gabor who fail infiltration into Crimea as OSCE observer in near past.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/15/thwarted-crimea-mission-of-osce-observers/

 

18 position - member of Estonian spec ops - winner of "Utria Descent 2012" military games.

https://plus.google.com/photos/117015976399646141209/albums/5733566967732258401

http://stolitsa.ee/44456

 

49 position - same Croatian woman (as OSCE observer) who organize special checks  of Crimean students in Ukrainian schools.

http://www.press-club.info/obrazovanie-i-obuchenie/4675-nabljudateli-obse-posetili-lvovskoj-politehniki.html

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.press-club.info%2Fobrazovanie-i-obuchenie%2F4675-nabljudateli-obse-posetili-lvovskoj-politehniki.html&edit-text=

[Zoraptor]

More political murders in Kiev- this time a pro Russian jouno and an ex PoR politician, within two days. Must be Putin though, because something something evil something something false flag something something dumb enough to kill off his own allies something something because just evil!!! something something.

 

Still, pretty lol (if inappropriately so, under the circumstances) that political murders of the opposition in Ukraine are past Putin's supposed 17 year total already when the year is only 17 weeks old, and what the difference in response is when it's pro Russians being bumped of rather than a pro west irrelevancy like Nemtsov.

[obyknven]

U.S. military transport aircraft landed in Lviv, Ukraine.

 


This is 173rd Airborne Brigade.
https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1876603/173rd-airborne-brigade-arrives-ukraine-fearless-guardian#.VTDDBcaNqFU



 
 Murica deliver new portion of troops (aka military advisors) and arms for killing of such Rebels.

 
Murican ambassador so proud by this
https://twitter.com/GeoffPyatt/status/588957044683735040

 

Vietnam war begin from same thing - Murika just send a military advisors into this country.

Edited April 17, 2015 by obyknven

[obyknven]

Вattalion "Diesel" (Rebels) train for future meetings with NATO.

http://youtu.be/ucz72ntLuiE

[obyknven]

 

[obyknven]

 

[obyknven]

Rebels. Looks like Rangers from "Wasteland 2" IRL. 

[obyknven]

From Kotaku

How International Sanctions Are Affecting Gamers and Developers in The Crimea

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/04/27/how-international-sanctions-are-affecting-gamers-and-developers-in-the-crimea

 

 

The situation for players is not as dire as it is for developers. One Simferopol gamer, Vanya, gives his view: "Since January, Valve ceased operations of Steam in Crimea. There are 2.3 million people in Crimea and approximately 20-30,000 of them are using Steam. Now we can’t buy any more games or use our accounts for selling things that we’ve earned in-game. I have my money left there which I can't use! But we can still play the games which we had bought before; some of my friends have bought virtual IP addresses to get around the sanctions; they can use all internet services easily, including playing games."

 

Not everyone’s experience of the sanctions has been entirely negative, though. "Frankly speaking," says Darya, a young Crimean gamer, "I had an enjoyable rest while Blizzard was blocking my account in the middle of April. At first, I didn't know what to do with all the free time that suddenly appeared. But then I started talking to a handsome guy I’d been seeing around, whom I hadn’t noticed before because I was too involved in gaming. He asked me out, I agreed and, you know what? Now we’re having a great time together. I’m playing games like I used to AND having fun in real life with a real boyfriend… so, thank you for the enforced break, Blizzard!”

Actually Western bourgeoisie must return moneys to gamers, just because they break trade contract. But this is fantasy, as we see in near past laws just don't work in the West ( for example when Murican president arrest private property of Russian citizens without any trials or proofs just because his Highness do want this ).

[obyknven]

Ukrainian journalist from Odessa reporting about life in Donetsk under rule of"terrorists" (by version of Kievan junta).

http://youtu.be/k0GjPHQ2Evo

 

She asking questions about future of Donetsk (for more trollolo she used Ukrainian language for it). Some of people refuse answering because his Ukrainian speech or because of  fear (telling about independence of Donbass is terrible crime in Ukraine), but majority chose independence or join to Russia. She also try asking this question to  "terrorists" (local police officers and members of Rebel militia), but they all refuse to answer.

 

http://youtu.be/KHXUL-YYrNg

 

[obyknven]

http://orwell.ru/library/essays/Spanish_War/english/esw_1 

The only propaganda line open to the Nazis and Fascists was to represent themselves as Christian patriots saving Spain from a Russian dictatorship. This involved pretending that life in Government Spain was just one long massacre (vide the Catholic Herald or the Daily Mail — but these were child's play compared with the Continental Fascist press), and it involved immensely exaggerating the scale of Russian intervention. Out of the huge pyramid of lies which the Catholic and reactionary press all over the world built up, let me take just one point — the presence in Spain of a Russian army. Devout Franco partisans all believed in this; estimates of its strength went as high as half a million. Now, there was no Russian army in Spain. There may have been a handful of airmen and other technicians, a few hundred at the most, but an army there was not. Some thousands of foreigners who fought in Spain, not to mention millions of Spaniards, were witnesses of this. Well, their testimony made no impression at all upon the Franco propagandists, not one of whom had set foot in Government Spain. Simultaneously these people refused utterly to admit the fact of German or Italian intervention at the same time as the Germany and Italian press were openly boasting about the exploits of their’ legionaries’. I have chosen to mention only one point, but in fact the whole of Fascist propaganda about the war was on this level.

 

 

Fascists, Fascist newer changes.

[obyknven]

Meanwhile in...
Occupied Crimea. Evil Russian invaders everywhere.

 

 
Happy Odessa under rule of Junta Democratic "European" Ukraine. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://youtu.be/DaDVDi1nwuo

 

http://youtu.be/HvemuaPtOME

[kgambit]

"Make-up bags are all for us! - Surgeon," says the caption on this photo. "Surgeon" is the nickname of Night Wolves leader Alexander Zaldostanov

 

[obyknven]

Graham Phillips: Ten reasons Ukraine is dead.

You may find the original article at Graham Phillips standlaone blog thetruthspeaker.com

 

 

Hard as it is to say, sad as it is for those of us who liked Ukraine, as I liked Ukraine – over 2 years living there pre-war, it was a country I was very fond of – but post-Euromaidan, Ukraine is dead. Here’s why –

1. If there’s no law, it’s not a country, it’s a failed state – the recent wave of killings of anyone perceived to be ‘anti-regime’ in Ukraine, accompanied by not only resounding failure to investigate, but actually official endorsement of those responsible – the fact that the police
in Ukraine defer to terrorist group Pravy Sektor. Just the start of a long list. There’s no law whatsoever in post-Euromaidan Ukraine.

2. If there’s no democracy, it’s not a country. It’s a banana state. On February 22nd, 2014, Euromaidan kicked out not only a democratically-elected president, but a democratically-elected government. It waited three months before holding elections for a new
president, 8 months before parliamentary. By that time, all too late, the extremist dmitryyaroshelement had already taken a stake way beyond electoral control – neo-Nazi party Svoboda, despite scoring less than 5% in the parliamentary elections, still vocally sit in Ukraine’s parliament, regularly send fighters to the front. Leader of neo-Nazi terrorist group Pravy Sektor Dmitry Yarosh, left, who polled less than 1% in the presidential election, on Interpol’s wanted list, is now an official aide to to the Ukrainian military.
3. There will never be peace in Ukraine. There’s now a history, and future, of violent revolution. Maidan set the precedent, installed its president in Ukraine by violent revolution. Yet Maidan was comprised of different factions, far from all of whom support Nazi.
In fact Ukrainian neo-Nazi Azov Battalion (right) have frequently stated their intention for a ‘new Maidan’ and a desire to ‘bring the fight from Donbass to
Kiev‘. Even the generally pro-Kiev Moscow Times has written of the likelihood
of another Maidan. Maidan set the terms for the institutionalised demolition of
democracy in Ukraine – a couple of thousand extremists, and a mass easily
gulled by patriotic slogans, in central Kiev can, violently, topple any
government they want. Ukraine’s president Poroshenko knows it, does everything
he can to appease the radicals. Every objective person knows that whatever,
there will never be peace in post-Euromaidan Ukraine.

4. Crimea, once the golden territory of the land, held a referendum to vote out of Ukraine, will never
return to Ukraine, even Germany’s leader Angela Merkel admitted that with her
recent statement of ‘we won’t forget it‘ (but we won’t do anything about it).

Once a country loses a part of its territory, it’s never the same country.

5. The Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, are never returning. Ukrainian forces haven’t taken any territory there since July of 2014,
they’ve only lost territory. DPR and LPR forces have consolidated lines, and if
there is movement, it will only be to take more of Donbass – currently they
have around 1/3 of the region which once produced 80% of all Ukraine’s coal,
but from which the DPR and LPR do not supply to Ukraine any more, while
industrial production in the rest of former industrial heartland Donbass has
mostly ground to a halt. The DPR and LPR have held a referendum, and election, to vote themselves out of Ukraine. The majority of those in Ukraine-occupied
Donbass voted to secede. Meanwhile those all over Ukraine are becoming both
less concerned with the ‘retaking’ of DPR and LPR territory, and more
ambivalent towards Ukraine due to 6. –

6. Normal life is almost impossible in Ukraine. Inflation in Ukraine is at 272%, the hryvnia’s worth at less than 40%
of what it was. Inflation has rocketed, salaries have collapsed, businesses
across Ukraine have closed. In short, people don’t have any money in Ukraine
anymore – sales of new cars down 67% year-on-year – production of cars down
96%, 46 banks declared insolvent in the last year. As for the eternal thorn in
Ukraine’s side, corruption, one which apparently became so pressing one of the
defining aims of Maidan was to extricate it – it’s even worse than it was
before. And for Ukrainian soldiers killed in action in Donbass, sources were
estimating that at over 20,000 last August. I’ve seen the bodies of dozens of
Ukrainian soldiers, how many of those were identified, fewer than a quarter.
Across Ukraine – extreme poverty, hyper-inflation, unemployment, and relatives
who left, or were mobilised, to fight in Donbass, disappeared forever, whose
fate will never be known.

There’s no normal in Ukraine anymore.

7. Ukraine’s debt is over $80 billion – set to hit $100 billion soon, 100%
and rising of a sinking GDP. An agreed
recent IMF bailout programme of $17,5 billion would only scratch the surface.
Ukraine’s economy shrunk Ukraine business 7.5%, by conservative estimates, in
2014. Estimates for this year range from 6% to over 20%. European governments
pledge support, meanwhile European businesses withdraw on mass, hundreds have
already left the Ukrainian market, most of the 600 German firms operating in
Ukraine conducting an audit about withdrawing from the market. Trade with the
country which was Ukraine’s leading export and import parter by far, Russia,
understandably decimated, Ukraine’s economy is stricken, and only going down.

8. The whole meaning of ‘Ukraine’ has changed – just look at a Google of Ukraine from 2011, 2012 and 2015 –

Ukraine now is associated with blood, death, war. There’s blood associated
with the Ukrainian flag from its military shootings in Odessa to Mariupol, to
its military relentlessly shelling civilian areas of Donbass. The perception,
identity, the very definition of ‘Ukraine’ has changed forever.

9. There’s no one who could make Ukraine one again. There’s no political figure who can unite the former country. No one
elected or placed in Kiev could ever win the support of those regions which
have broken away, by the very fact of their being connected to Kiev. No
political figure would ever be elected in those seceded regions on a ‘united
Ukraine’ platform.

There’s simply no one who can make Ukraine one again.

10. There will be a ‘Ukraine’, whatever that
is, in future. But the ‘Ukraine’, to some simply ‘the Ukraine’ is finished.
It’s dead. The sooner those pro-Ukraine accept that, the more lives will be
saved, the quicker they can find what, where, ‘Ukraine’ is, after all, and
start to build that, rather than destroy the former Ukraine.

Edited May 6, 2015 by obyknven

[obyknven]

Meanwhile East European subslaves continue lick boots of foreign masters.

Firstly they perform Westlings orders.

 

But later... they feel so much butthurt from this.

[obyknven]

Fashion of rebels. Do want buy Gorka 4 suit for hunting/traveling also.

[obyknven]

Days of Ukrainian Junta are numbered. Western media begin informational campaighn Ukrainian government.

 

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-poroshenko-land-deal-questions-tsars-village/27013945.html

 

http://youtu.be/gdNecwGjFoM

 

The Moor has done his duty, let finish him. Lol Murika acted as usual.

 

[obyknven]

Full-scale war begin in Ukraine again.

http://en.voicesevas.ru/news/