Why Trap XP doesn't work

[Gairnulf]

If the xp awarded for opening locks/traps is accounted for in the xp needed for level progression, doesn't this make awarding xp for opening locks/traps simply an inflation of the level xp? Possible answers: "Yes, because almost any party will include a person who can ulnock chests/disarm traps", and "No, because it's your choice to open/disarm or not".

Edited December 3, 2014 by Gairnulf

[nipsen]

^Mm. It means that a party needs to only unlock an assumed average amount of chests (which no one will), in an average amount of optional dungeons (that might not visit), etc. Down the pipeline, it also means that underleveled parties will run into too difficult battles, while overleveled parties breeze through them. How will you "rebalance" that encounter, if you are tasked with that? It's an impossible problem if you want to keep the design. So the solution, like with the attributes it seems, is to drop the design and go with something more simplistic.

 

Such as either dropping level-dependent skills having any reference at any point, or simply making the entire game linear. Or both.

Trap xp should be given to the entire party and not just the trap disarmer. Like beastiary xp.

....and that would solve the level pacing problem, in what way?

[Gfted1]

There is no level pacing problem, because Obs can count.

[nipsen]

And predict the future. Yes, I understand.

[Gfted1]

You do it daily, why not Obs.

 

The game will be balanced around the crit path. So if you do nothing else you will be around level 8-9 by the end of the game. Then there is all the side stuff. If you do everything in the game you will end around level 12. Oh noes! What will Obs do to prevent such a level disparity between the crit path player and the completionist player? Nothing. As it should be.

[Gairnulf]

You do it daily, why not Obs.

 

The game will be balanced around the crit path. So if you do nothing else you will be around level 8-9 by the end of the game. Then there is all the side stuff. If you do everything in the game you will end around level 12. Oh noes! What will Obs do to prevent such a level disparity between the crit path player and the completionist player? Nothing. As it should be.

12? I want to level up more :D

[Gfted1]

 

You do it daily, why not Obs.

 

The game will be balanced around the crit path. So if you do nothing else you will be around level 8-9 by the end of the game. Then there is all the side stuff. If you do everything in the game you will end around level 12. Oh noes! What will Obs do to prevent such a level disparity between the crit path player and the completionist player? Nothing. As it should be.

12? I want to level up more :D

 

 

Me too! I want to reach god slaying levels of power but we'll have to wait for the expansion / PoE2.

[Gairnulf]

Doesn't matter that much, the main thing with low level parties in D&D was that battles were more "wait for them to swing weapons and keep you fingers crossed", from what I see in the BB, we'll have variety in the battles even at low levels, so the problem should be avoided.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Gairnulf

[Gfted1]

..."wait for them to swing weapons and keep you fingers crossed"...

 

When PoE was first introduced, there were no misses, because people got red faced when their low level party would miss in the IE games. Thankfully that went away and the miss/graze/hit/crit system was born.

[Matt516]

Agree with OP that trap XP does not belong in PoE.

[Nakia]

Level 12?  I'm glad I am getting the expansion.  Still since I like to wander around, poke in everywhere, talk to people I should get quite a few hours of play.  Plus I like experimenting with various races and classes.  If I get bored I'll make a dysfunctional bunny rabbit rogue who goes around setting traps and disarming when not unlocking locks.

[Lephys]

I get the "Who cares if they reload?" point, but, simultaneously, I try to think "Who cares if we put an Invulnerability button or an infinite gold button directly onto the interface? Some people will click it, others won't!", and I just get nowhere with that.

 

I dunno... I just think more thought should be put into the question "why should you get XP here, and do you need to?" than into the question "why NOT put XP here?". I mean, how valuable is specifically getting XP from the process of disarming traps, versus the incentive (whether you ignore it or not, it exists where it once did not) to utilize any and all discoveries of traps (even trap trippings) in order to gain more XP?

[Gairnulf]

I get the "Who cares if they reload?" point, but, simultaneously, I try to think "Who cares if we put an Invulnerability button or an infinite gold button directly onto the interface? Some people will click it, others won't!", and I just get nowhere with that.

 

I dunno... I just think more thought should be put into the question "why should you get XP here, and do you need to?" than into the question "why NOT put XP here?". I mean, how valuable is specifically getting XP from the process of disarming traps, versus the incentive (whether you ignore it or not, it exists where it once did not) to utilize any and all discoveries of traps (even trap trippings) in order to gain more XP?

It's not a fair example, because the load game function is essential to the game, whereas a cheating button is not. One has no other uses except for cheating, whereas the other one has other uses. This is the same debate as the one about the combat xp -- if the xp I'd get for killing the enemies along the way is added to the quest xp, I don't really care (yes, I may not be able to level up in the middle of a quest, and this could make it a bit tougher, or a bit less easy, but I'm ok with that). I'd prefer if instead of giving XP opening locks and disarming traps was slowly increasing the Mechanics skill. I've always liked this logic of the ES system, which is maybe the only thing I liked about it.

[Nakia]

I like the idea of skills gradually increasing as you use them.  To me that is natural and logical.

[Captain Shrek]

[nipsen]

I like systems that combine "affinity" progression and level progression as well. But if you want that included in a role-playing game, you have to simplify the way the encounters scale, you cannot use custom encounters in the same way, you can never tie abilities and gameplay abilities into the writing, for example.

 

Lots of arpgs tend to have blanked out skills to deal with that problem. That you can actually earn millions of times the amount of xp that you needed to unlock the orb of ultimate sarcasm - but they don't let you have it until you complete a quest or kill a particular boss. Soul Reaver.. good example. You have some sort of progression and collect upgrades - but you're not actually getting anywhere until you get certain powers from the bosses. So in reality the level system is insignificant enough that after the fifth health-upgrade, you don't really care or see much difference. While it's also disconnected from the powers you get that actually matter and change the game.

 

I dunno... I just think more thought should be put into the question "why should you get XP here, and do you need to?" than into the question "why NOT put XP here?". I mean, how valuable is specifically getting XP from the process of disarming traps, versus the incentive (whether you ignore it or not, it exists where it once did not) to utilize any and all discoveries of traps (even trap trippings) in order to gain more XP?

Your critical approach and lack of positive thinking will get you nowhere, Lephys! You have to ask like this: "We shall have Trap XP! And is there any reason, any reason at all, that might justify it?". And now you'll get a list of reasons right away! That's intelligent thinking, you see!

 

Or - possibly just sheer sophistry and creative lying, I don't seem to know the difference nowadays.