Minor Musings/Suggestions on the Fighter/Paladin

[Shevek]

FYI, alot of folks have been saying how fighters are too inflexible build wise (myself included) but I just did a moderately successful playthrough with a dual wielding dps fighter in the party. No shield. No defender stance. I just went for guardian stance towards the end and dps abilities (confident aim, etc) early on. It was a worthy edition to the party - basically a DPS offtank than can knock crap down and give deflection bonuses to other melee that is really close by. I prefer it to a barbarian. Having no dedicated tank meant I had to play slightly more active but it wasnt too bad. I had both a Paladin and a Priest, so tossing out an occasional per encounter heal wasn't too tedious.

 

Anywho, I would like to see guardian stance available earlier so players can choose between that and defender stance early on.

 

As an aside, I would made a similar suggestion for the paladin.  It would be nice if Zealous Endurance were available earlier so players can choose between that or Zealous Focus early on.

 

Making these alternative stances/auras available earlier would also make it more viable for parties to have two paladins or two fighters in the party.

[Sensuki]

I actually recently did a 2 x Flail Aumaua Fighter with 21 Might and 17 Perception, was lols with Confident Aim - 30% Graze to Hit Conversion. Now that Josh has opened up the ability progression you can choose to build them a bit differently now. Starting to feel a lot better.

However a Rogue dual wielder eclipses any other class by a long way damage-wise. They can do insane damage with a Stiletto or Hatchet due to damage multiplier stacking.

 

I'd also like to see some more Paladin auras available earlier, even though Zealous Focus is very good.

[Namutree]

FYI, alot of folks have been saying how fighters are too inflexible build wise (myself included) but I just did a moderately successful playthrough with a dual wielding dps fighter in the party. No shield. No defender stance. I just went for guardian stance towards the end and dps abilities (confident aim, etc) early on. It was a worthy edition to the party - basically a DPS offtank than can knock crap down and give deflection bonuses to other melee that is really close by. I prefer it to a barbarian. Having no dedicated tank meant I had to play slightly more active but it wasnt too bad. I had both a Paladin and a Priest, so tossing out an occasional per encounter heal wasn't too tedious.

 

Anywho, I would like to see guardian stance available earlier so players can choose between that and defender stance early on.

 

As an aside, I would made a similar suggestion for the paladin.  It would be nice if Zealous Endurance were available earlier so players can choose between that or Zealous Focus early on.

 

Making these alternative stances/auras available earlier would also make it more viable for parties to have two paladins or two fighters in the party.

A dang good suggestion! I 100% approve. 

[J.E. Sawyer]

It's always tricky to figure out what abilities should be available at a given level.  In our ability progression, previous unselected options are not locked out for the player, which does ameliorate some of the problems with forcing a selection between two modals or two passives.  I'll take another look at the low levels for classes, but it may mean that at levels 9/11 some classes are getting 1 new option instead of 2 (since some abilities may have been moved down to be offered alongside the existing pairs).

[RoughOne]

It's always tricky to figure out what abilities should be available at a given level.  In our ability progression, previous unselected options are not locked out for the player, which does ameliorate some of the problems with forcing a selection between two modals or two passives.  I'll take another look at the low levels for classes, but it may mean that at levels 9/11 some classes are getting 1 new option instead of 2 (since some abilities may have been moved down to be offered alongside the existing pairs).

I suppose the trade of low level vs levels 9/11 would depend on the ultimate level target of this game.  BTW, what IS the ultimate level target for this game?

[Kjaamor]

My issue with fighters was never that they weren't capable of being a dps class, but rather that a Paladin and a Barbarian can't tank as well as a single fighter. Obviously it was in the sales pitch that fighters would be best at it, but the impression I was given was that the secondary melee classes would make for functional but sub-optimal tanks. At last check, the off-tank you could make from a Paladin or Barbarian wasn't much better than the tank you could make from a wizard without using spells.

[Lephys]

It's always tricky to figure out what abilities should be available at a given level.  In our ability progression, previous unselected options are not locked out for the player, which does ameliorate some of the problems with forcing a selection between two modals or two passives.  I'll take another look at the low levels for classes, but it may mean that at levels 9/11 some classes are getting 1 new option instead of 2 (since some abilities may have been moved down to be offered alongside the existing pairs).

I don't know how tricky this would prove (or even how many abilities would qualify for this), but, using the two Fighter stances as an example, anything like that (that would make a good mutually-exclusive choice at a given level) could be set up to where you can only choose one or the other at level X, but then you can't choose a second one until level X + Y.

 

So, maybe, whichever stance you pick for your Fighter at, say, Level 1, you can't have both stances until Level 5 or so.

 

*shrug*. Just a thought for abilities and such that kind of seem like part of a set. Having the whole set would grant you a lot of versatility, and could be saved for a later level.

[Shevek]

Well, I did a play through with no defender mode and no shield user. It was enjoyable. I didnt tank as well but i killed things faster. My adventuring day was about the same since dmg was spread around my melee guys.

[Kjaamor]

...but you did use a fighter, right?

 

I haven't utilised a custom party, so I can't say with certainty how it would be, but it appears evident that only having Paladins and Barbarians in your front line would be a far slower and distinctly more frustrating experience.

[Shevek]

Ya but as dps. The Paladin was actually better at soaking up dmg than the dps fighter due to passive bonuses and the accuracy aura made killing much faster for all. I like paladins alot - very useful with LoH. If they make the other aura selectable earlier i can see two paladins as being a valid choice (though I would stick with a paladin, dps fighter, chanter frontline).

 

I probably could have subbed the fighter with a rogue and had been fine but I like the knockdown+guardian stance.

 

I do think barbs need some love but they are still interesting.

 

You should try a custom party. Classes are feeling pretty good overall.

[Sensuki]

Excluding Rangers. They are horrible.

 

There are a few that need a bit of help as well (Barbarians, Monks and Wizards spring to mind).

Edited December 3, 2014 by Sensuki

[Shevek]

Ya, rangers and that shared health thing is an issue.

[Sensuki]

I think it's more than that. Outside of the Shared Health mechanic, the class just feels uninspired for me. There's a bit of 4E Ranger in there, but there's nothing that makes it fun, or that makes it a good class. They don't do very good damage, don't have any fun abilities, and the interaction between the ranger and the bear doesn't really go beyond targeting the same person.

 

They could be much, much more interesting (and useful) than that. Probably the only class I would never pick at the moment, and it will be sad if they reach release in a poor state and one of the companions is gimped because of it.

[Shevek]

It does feel bland. I cant think of one instance where I would pick a ranger.

 

To me, the pet is a liability and space on the frontline is limited. Basically, in my front line, i have space for 3 melee guys (1 of which is using a reach weapon) so it doesnt get too crowded in hallways. Why would i give one of those spots to a rangers pet?

 

I am not sure what can be done about how unexciting the class is though.

[Sensuki]

I made a thread a while back saying it would be cool if the Ranger could switch between passive modals that only affected him and the companion (ie damage, DT, Deflection, Action Speed, Accuracy), and also had a few active buffs that only affected him and the companion.

 

Would also be cool if all companions had an ability or two (an active and a passive).

 

The only thing that was taken on board from that entire thread was talents that boosted the companion and Favored Enemy style talents (which were other people's suggestions).

Edited December 3, 2014 by Sensuki

[Namutree]

The only thing that was taken on board from that entire thread was talents that boosted the companion and Favored Enemy style talents (which were other people's suggestions).

It was mine!

 

I think the Ranger needs more health; not more stamina, but more health. Maybe 2 more health per level?

Edited December 3, 2014 by Namutree

[Sensuki]

Why does that matter if you can just kill the Ranger with a few hits and both him and the companion die ?

[Namutree]

Why does that matter if you can just kill the Ranger with a few hits and both him and the companion die ?

Maybe in very specific scenarios it could mean just barely surviving an attack that the Ranger would have otherwise been killed in.

[Sensuki]

Ranger and Companion Health need seperate health pools, but if one is dropped to 0 Stamina, the other should take modest damage from it or something.

 

At the moment it's basically this

 

• Most Animal Companions do terrible damage in combat
• There's no point attacking enemy Ranger animal companion at all, as they have higher DT and Defenses than the Ranger does
• Therefore, just kill the Ranger and they both die

 

That's not good design. Theoretically it sounded like a cool idea, but in practice it is woeful.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Sensuki

[Namutree]

Ranger and Companion Health need seperate health pools, but if one is dropped to 0 Stamina, the other should take modest damage from it or something.

That's a good idea.

 

I got another one!

 

How about the Ranger gets a minor stat boost based on which companion he chooses? Like say... +4 Health/Stamina every 3 levels if he chooses the bear.

[morhilane]

Would also be cool if all companions had an ability or two (an active and a passive).

 

I know that the stag had an active knockdown usable by the player in v278 (gained at level 7 or .

 

and I think that if the Range dies, the pet should go in a Frenzy...