Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Gairnulf: lol What? I was serious. I have my own list of things I'd like to have in PoE and were in the IE games. Probably others do as well. It may be an exercise in futility, or it may actually help the developers, or maybe even impair them to do things they want but we are against Edited November 28, 2014 by Gairnulf 1 A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
Shevek Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) This forum is where ideas go to fight, live or die. We dont need to pin the ideas. Natural selection determines what makes it and what doesnt. Edited November 28, 2014 by Shevek
Rumsteak Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) This probably has nothing to do with the latest update but I still noticed this when playing this morning: - is it normal that elves can have beards? - is it normal that the front line in your party is not always at the front when moving the party to a given direction? The party position setup is often always the same wherever you go; I think it should be automatically rotated so that the front line is always the one at the front when you order your party to go to a given direction. Otherwise this defeats the purpose of party positioning! I want my fighters to be at the front at any given time. I do not feel confident enough to file these points as bugs (maybe some of them are done on purpose?) so I am sharing them here. Edited November 28, 2014 by Rumsteak
Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) This forum is where ideas go to fight, live or die. We dont need to pin the ideas. Natural selection determines what makes it and what doesnt. Nicely put. However, once you leave the presentation room and you have to set goals to your team where you're lead designer, you have to resort to a concrete list of features. Also, I'm not talking about a list of what makes it, leaving aside the question "what makes it... to where?". I'm talking about demystifying "IE feels" and explaining them in an objective way. Having a list of such features we consider core IE experience wouldn't stop people from posting their ideas. Edited November 28, 2014 by Gairnulf A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) This probably has nothing to do with the latest update but I still noticed this when playing this morning: - is it normal that elves can have beards? - is it normal that the front line in your party is not always at the front when moving the party to a given direction? The party position setup is often always the same wherever you go; I think it should be automatically rotated so that the front line is always the one at the front when you order your party to go to a given direction. Otherwise this defeats the purpose of party positioning! I want my fighters to be at the front at any given time. I do not feel confident enough to file these points as bugs (maybe some of them are done on purpose?) so I am sharing them here. Regarding the second point, don't you use right-click+rotate? It's become a habit for me. Regarding the first, I think Josh is the chief Lore authority, but personally I don't see why would anyone who wants an elf with a beard be stopped. Edited November 28, 2014 by Gairnulf A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
Shevek Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Gairnulf: That made no sense. Anyway, worthy ideas do not need to be pinned. Edited November 28, 2014 by Shevek
Rumsteak Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Regarding the second point, don't you use right-click+rotate? I use right-click+rotate at the moment, but it is really tedious to do it all the time, this is very bad design. Like in BG, the initial party position should roughly be good wherever you go. I should only use right-click+rotate when I need to fine-tune my party position (btw in practice I almost never needed to to this in BG). I suspect the current behavior is a bug but it seems so obvious to me that I am not sure. Maybe there's a catch. Edited November 28, 2014 by Rumsteak 1
Sensuki Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) **** off it's bad design, it's exactly how it was in the IE games - get used to it. The only bad thing about it is that right click doesn't auto vector like left click does, so you have to rotate further each time. That should be fixed. Going by the recent PE stream, the right click always the same is actually by design (which is a really bad decision). Edited November 28, 2014 by Sensuki 1
Shevek Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 "**** off it's bad design, it's exactly how it was in the IE games - get used to it." That should be your sig 3
Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 **** off it's bad design, it's exactly how it was in the IE games - get used to it. The only bad thing about it is that right click doesn't auto vector like left click does, so you have to rotate further each time. That should be fixed. Going by the recent PE stream, the right click always the same is actually by design (which is a really bad decision). That's what I've been saying - if it's been some way in the IE games that doesn't automatically make it good design. I would roll with it though, doesn't bother me. 1 A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 Gairnulf: That made no sense. Anyway, worthy ideas do not need to be pinned. What made no sense to you? I'm willing to explain better. Mainly, if you set a team of developers off with the words "Make it in such a way so that IE feels are there" you'll get worse results than if you give them more precise description what end result you want. A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
Rumsteak Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Well not only is this good design in this particular case, but it is also common sense. I mean, who would not want to have his tanks on the front line most of the time? Edited November 28, 2014 by Rumsteak 1
Shevek Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Gairnulf: Um, we dont give them demands. We may have helped, collectively, to commission this and may offer suggestions but we dont tender lists of demands. They are the arbiters of this game's fate. This forum is a purely advisory body representing a small sub sect of their sum audience. Moreover the opinions here are varied and often conflicting. This forum cannot and should not function to generate lists but, instead, discussion. From this discussion, the devs may or may not take action. Basically, the basis of your suggestion is ludicrous. Edited November 28, 2014 by Shevek 1
Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 Well not only is this good design in this particular case, but it is also common sense. I mean, who would not want to have his tanks on the front line most of the time? I want to have my rogue on the front, to scout ahead. Depends if I'm in a dungeon or not. I'm also used to arranging my party so that my PC is always at the front, and tanks etc are after him, although that's unneeded now. That's another deviation from the IE games (at least from BG games) but I doubt anyone will protest, especially if they play a class that usually has few hitpoints. So it's not guaranteed everyone will want their tanks in the front. All kinds of people out there. A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Um, we dont give them demands. We may have helped, collectively, to commission this and may offer suggestions but we dont tender lists of demands. They are the arbiters of this game's fate. This forum is a purely advisory body representing a small sub sect of their sum audience. Moreover the opinions here are varied and often conflicting. This forum cannot and should not function to generate lists but, instead, discussion. From this discussion, the devs may or may not take action. Basically, the basis of your suggestion is ludicrous. I don't propose we use the forum to generate lists as opposed to discussions. I just propose that when we talk about the "zeitgeist of the IE games" etc. we have a common definition. Establishing a common terminological body between parties is a required step for any rational discussion. I'd rather call ludicrous arguing endlessly while using words which have a different meaning for you than for the other guy. That's arguing for the sake of argument, without trying to reach a solution. Edited November 28, 2014 by Gairnulf A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
Rumsteak Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) I'm also used to arranging my party so that my PC is always at the front, and tanks etc are after him If you want your PC always on the front (via pre-made or custom party positioning), that is totally fine by me. It then makes sense that whenever you move to a given direction, your party positioning gets rotated so that, in your case, your PC stays on the front. This is what I have been talking about. Edited November 28, 2014 by Rumsteak 1
Shevek Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 They determine what the zeitgeist is. They have more than enough experience to define that themselves. They are the artists. If they want our input on that, they ask. Also, with less than 1/2 a year for release, it is far too late to get into discussion over core design philosophy.
Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) They determine what the zeitgeist is. They have more than enough experience to define that themselves. They are the artists. If they want our input on that, they ask. Also, with less than 1/2 a year for release, it is far too late to get into discussion over core design philosophy. Oh no. A single party's monopoly over the meaning of language that extends over everyone else means totalitarianism. I can't agree they determine the meaning of any term. I'm also used to arranging my party so that my PC is always at the front, and tanks etc are after him If you want your PC always on the front (via pre-made or custom party positioning), that is totally fine by me. It then makes sense that whenever you move to a given direction, your party positioning gets rotated so that, in your case, your PC stays on the front. This is what I have been talking about. Actually I had forgotten about the custom party option. Edited November 28, 2014 by Gairnulf A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
InsaneCommander Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 I'm also used to arranging my party so that my PC is always at the front, and tanks etc are after him If you want your PC always on the front (via pre-made or custom party positioning), that is totally fine by me. It then makes sense that whenever you move to a given direction, your party positioning gets rotated so that, in your case, your PC stays on the front. This is what I have been talking about. Exactly. The party should always face the direction they are going, as Rumsteak is saying. This way we'll always have the characters we want at the front, be it the tank, PC, rogue, etc. We can also create different party formations and change when necessary, so it shouldn't be necessary to rotate everytime.
Namutree Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 They determine what the zeitgeist is. They have more than enough experience to define that themselves. They are the artists. If they want our input on that, they ask. Also, with less than 1/2 a year for release, it is far too late to get into discussion over core design philosophy. Oh no. A single party's monopoly over the meaning of language that extends over everyone else means totalitarianism. I can't agree they determine the meaning of any term. They kind of do when they're the ones who used it. It's not like you can go... "Obsidian! When you said that word with subjective implications, this is what you meant." 1 "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) They determine what the zeitgeist is. They have more than enough experience to define that themselves. They are the artists. If they want our input on that, they ask. Also, with less than 1/2 a year for release, it is far too late to get into discussion over core design philosophy. Oh no. A single party's monopoly over the meaning of language that extends over everyone else means totalitarianism. I can't agree they determine the meaning of any term. They kind of do when they're the ones who used it. It's not like you can go... "Obsidian! When you said that word with subjective implications, this is what you meant." No. Every new word you hear is up to you to figure out until you learn its commonly established meaning from somewhere. There is no static definition of the term given by the PoE team (be that intentional or not), so it's up to anyone to define it. And we are not supposed to tell Obsidian what they meant, I am not proposing that and would be against that. I rather think we can agree on what we mean if we discuss the question. Edited November 28, 2014 by Gairnulf A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
Shevek Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 Gairnulf: Lol. Anyway, I trust their definitions over anyone else's on this forum. Quite frankly, I paid for a game made by OE. I love their games. Not the games of anyone else on this forum. They have more experience than anyone else in this community with the IE games since some of them helped make some them. I am happy that they take input but they decide what the design goals are and what to do with that input. Basically, they call the shots. They dont need any lists. And, honestly, they have delivered. 5
Gairnulf Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 Gairnulf: Lol. Anyway, I trust their definitions over anyone else's on this forum. Quite frankly, I paid for a game made by OE. I love their games. Not the games of anyone else on this forum. They have more experience than anyone else in this community with the IE games since some of them helped make some them. I am happy that they take input but they decide what the design goals are and what to do with that input. Basically, they call the shots. They dont need any lists. And, honestly, they have delivered. If "Lol" is the best argument you can come up with, I am satisfied. A Custom Editor for Deadfire's Data:
Shevek Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Feel free to ignore or read whatever text in my posts you like. And, by all means, feel satisfied. I know I am. Edited November 28, 2014 by Shevek
Sensuki Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 And because of people with your attitude Shevek, all we get is popamole terrible games these days, you will eat a bowl of dung handed to you and ask for seconds. 5
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