The Fighting Style Talents

[Sensuki]

Won't be like that when the damage ranges are balanced. I would just prefer something offensive, as offensive talents that boost DPS are lacking for 2Hers once you already pick Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization.

[Doppelschwert]

You do realize armor has DR as well, right?

 

If 2H style did x1.1 damage (I'm not saying it should, just an example), after DT that value would be reduced by the DR of the armor, higher the damage the more is reduced

 

Actually, I remember reading that on the armor description in game, but I missed any update on this change so I occassionaly forget about it. Feels kind of strange/unneccessary to me. So basically, yeah, I forgot.

 

I'll ask directly again because of all people you are probably the only one who knows this, but what does 20% graces converted to hits mean?

20% of the grace range or at most 20 points of the grace range?

[Sensuki]

Okay so by default, at ACC-DEF = 0, characters have a 45% chance to graze (roll of 6-50) and 45% chance to hit (roll of 51-95). 20% Graze-to-Hit would change it to 25% chance to graze (6-30) and 65% chance to hit (31-95).

[Doppelschwert]

So it's at most 20 points of the grace range. That's good to know, thanks.

 

So in moderate accuracy ranges it's way more beneficial to use the fighting style for single weapons instead of the weapon focus talents if you want to use a single handed weapon.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Doppelschwert

[Sensuki]

Not currently because 2H does more damage, but when they tweak the values - 1H style will be king unless versing enemies with heavy armor.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Sensuki

[Matt516]

Okay so by default, at ACC-DEF = 0, characters have a 45% chance to graze (roll of 6-50) and 45% chance to hit (roll of 51-95). 20% Graze-to-Hit would change it to 25% chance to graze (6-30) and 65% chance to hit (31-95).

Is it 20% graze to hit, or 20 effective points of Accuracy, albeit graze to hit instead of graze to crit (so actually less helpful than 20 points of Accuracy, which is good because that would be OP)? The way it's worded makes it sound like it's 20% AKA if you roll a graze, then there's a 20% chance of it turning into a hit.

 

That's how the percentages would work if it's actually a percentage, which is how they describe it.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Matt516

[Sensuki]

It might be RNG based as you say, I'm not sure actually. I'll have to check the source code. I'm fairly sure it's deterministic though, and not RNG based.

 

If it works the way I think it does, it doesn't increase your critical chance or anything, and it becomes redundant when ACC-DEF gets high. It's a great windfall against enemies with higher defenses though.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Sensuki

[Sensuki]

Actually yeah, it is random It's not deterministic

 

if ((float)hitValue <= CharacterStats.GrazeThreshhold)
			{
				damage.OriginalHitType = HitType.GRAZE;
				float num3 = this.GetBonusGrazeToHitPercent();
				float num4 = Random.Range(0f, 0.999f);
				if (num4 >= num3)
				{
					num3 = this.BonusGrazeToMissPercent;
					if (damage.DefendedBy == CharacterStats.DefenseType.Deflect || damage.DefendedBy == CharacterStats.DefenseType.Reflex)
					{
						num3 += this.DeflectReflexGrazeToMissPercent;
					}
					else
					{
						if (damage.DefendedBy == CharacterStats.DefenseType.Fortitude || damage.DefendedBy == CharacterStats.DefenseType.Will)
						{
							num3 += this.FortitudeWillGrazeToMissPercent;
						}
					}
					if (num4 >= num3)
					{
						damage.IsGraze = true;
					}
					else
					{
						damage.IsMiss = true;
					}
				}
			}

[Matt516]

Cool. It's still less effective at high ACC-DEF then, since as your graze chance goes down the chance of the skill proccing goes down.

[Zansatsu]

If you pick the 1h talent while still using a shield do you get the accuracy bonus from that or must you be 1h only?

[Sensuki]

1H single, no shield

[Shevek]

The 2H talent kinda sucks but I still grab it. Would be nice if it gave like 10 deflection.

[Sensuki]

I think it's a bit superfluous really because there's a Talent called Superior Deflection, and I don't think they stack.

[constantine]

So, 1H style is bad and less to no use when ACC>>DEF and 2H is bad, uninspired & reduntant.

 

 

Suggestions:

 

-1H:convert 10% of hits into crts

-2H:overcome small portion of DT, or +x points to dmg or same as 1H

[Sensuki]

1H Style is pretty good actually. I made a Fighter last night with One-Handed Style and Confident Aim ability, almost never grazed. When they bump the 1H weapon damage, ITZ ...
 

Edited November 12, 2014 by Sensuki

[constantine]

Anyway, my personal choice wouldn t be to choose a style to deal less grazes, I'd increase ACC for that & higher crt chance also.

 

Another really cool option for 2H, already proposed by many:

 

increase chance to interrupt.

[Shevek]

I wouldnt add ACC to 2handers. That is what makes 1h special. I would keep the bonus to deflection but I would make it higher.

[anameforobsidian]

I'm surprised Sensuki is against it considering that it's very close to what BG/2 did for two-handed style.

[Sensuki]

When I fight to make things closer to the IE games it's rarely ever for the rules, or systems. I fight for a closer look, feel, UI style and controls / options.

From memory 2H style also reduced speed factor.

[Guest 4ward]

When I fight to make things closer to the IE games it's rarely ever for the rules, or systems. I fight for a closer look, feel, UI style and controls / options.

 

From memory 2H style also reduced speed factor.

yes, true, i looked it up (loaded an old save)

BG2 SoA / Kheldorn

2H weapon style: 1 proficiency point

Weapon style bonus:

Damage +1

Critical Hit +1

Weapon speed -2

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I think deflection is a good choice.  The benefit of killing things harder is built into the weapon stats; killing things harderer isn't a particularly interesting bonus.  The assumption is that a character is going to use 2h in the majority of if not all situations, so patching up deficiencies in defense is logical and believable.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Really a lot of this comes down to whether you would like the Talents to reinforce what the styles already do or if you would like them to grant a different type of benefit.  The style Talents are currently a mix, but could be collectively or individually shifted.

 

 

I think it's a bit superfluous really because there's a Talent called Superior Deflection, and I don't think they stack.

 

Passive Abilities and Talents are supposed to always stack, so Superior Deflection should stack with the benefit from Two-Handed Style.

 

However, I have noticed that the character sheet is not displaying the same data that you see in the combat log.  Specifically, the bonus from Two-Handed Style appears in the log but does not update on the sheet when you equip a qualifying weapon.

[Sensuki]

Yeah I noticed that when I did some more build testing recently. When I use a 2H weapon in this game, I am about doing damage because that's the benefit of using a 2H weapon. I wouldn't choose 2H style if it gave me a Deflection bonus, because I could be choosing something else that improves my damage output instead.

That's just me. This is only a minor quibble and I can edit the talent in Unity if I want. So I'm not hugely fussed.

[constantine]

Two-handed weapon style should be changed. Many good suggestions are present in this thread.