Wasteland 2

[Gromnir]

I do agree that the usefulness of a melee character is situational.  And, given the sacrifices that you need to make to have a good one, it might not be worth it. 

 

I mean, it's nice that I have an 8-STR character to haul all my crap, and he has been occasionally useful as a damage sink and debuff applier (by getting right up next to enemies using ranged weapons), but I'd probably be getting more mileage out of a second combat-focused (i.e., 4-INT and 1 CHA) gunner-- there are entire combats where my brawler does precisely bupkis. 

 

(Note: His STR is high primarily because of the weirdness in the Brawling mechanics-- a blunt of bladed melee'er probably doesn't need more than middling STR.)

am actually surprised at how effective our brawler is. yeah, we frequent have walter e. kurtz huddling in cover for an entire fight, which feels wasteful. the necessity o'  boosting strength is also a handicap compared to other melee characters. and yes, given the unique manner in which brawling damage scales, we were aware that the initial levels would not be revealing particular impressive kill or damage totals for such a melee build as we have for our brawler. even so, at level 25 and having exhausted AZ, our brawler has 86 kills and has done a total o' 6450 damage. roach, our assault rifle specialist, has achieved predictably impressive kill/damage numbers: 93/10148.  benjamin l. willard, the sniper in our core 4, has 122 kills and has accounted for 14237 damage. our weak link has been william b. kilgore and his shotgun. we were aware that shotguns would be a poor early choice, and kilgore is our requisite charisma /leadership monkey, but 34 kills and 2972 damage is terrible... doing it all over would have us choosing smgs for kilgore. 

 

we needs be careful with kurtz, and he is requiring significant more medical attention than our other core rangers, but we is pleasant surprised with our brawler.  we do not anticipate a significant drop-off when we arrive in CA.

 

HA! Good Fun! 

[Hiro Protagonist II]

1. Endgame stuff. I just entered Hollywood (and now waiting for patch 3 to hopefully fix bugs there) and I don't have G41 yet.

2,3. Yes. I developed "social" skills ahead of everything else because a tough skill check you can always save for later but conversation options disappear if you can't use them immediately.

4. Almost. Toasters were easy because I had Ralphy.

5. I got peaceful solution in RNC but I think the quest chain was bugged - some parts never triggered. E.g. there should be a kidnapping at some point but it never happened.

6. I pretended to side with DBM (after wiping all their ambushes but didn't kill any monks. I sneaked through the Temple and didn't kill anyone there either. Also I agreed to get the nuke for monks but instead I disarmed it.

7. I don't think you get any extra quests but you can get some weapons. Nothing really great though.

 

---

 

Melee isn't necessary. Theoretically, brawling is the best source of damage after maybe level 30. But at level 30 you have great gear and, most importantly, so many HP that slightly higher damage output doesn't matter.

 

Ah, you missed some toasters. Rail Nomads isn't bugged. Depends on what you do in that area. I did get the kidnapping quest and resolved it. Also, if you killed any DBM, you miss out on a dialogue option with Sadler. There is an extra quest in Temple of Titan if you don't kill any monks. If you kill or let the monk that's following you die before the Temple, that quest disappears as they're not happy with you.

 

Also, you're basing your whole argument on the G41 assault rifle even though you've been through a lot of the game and still don't have it. Wow, just wow. Okay, I still stand by energy weapons not sucking as bad as you're making them out to be. But that's been a lot of your argument. Stating things like,

 

1. "they perform worse than AR even against armored targets"

 

No, the Gamma Ray Blaster doesn't.

 

2. "It's much easier to get Ralphy very early and mold him into whatever you want. He has less AP and worse stats but he's no Cha locked so you don't need to gimp your core team in order to get him."

 

You admit Ralphy has worse stats than Pizepi and then say I'm gimping my core team. But then you're missing dialogue options and quest resolutions that I do receive. It sounds like you're gimping your core team with missing things in the game and taking on gimped recruits to mold them into using Assault Rifles. I'll take PIzepi's GRB for most of the game over Ralphy's non-existent G41 that he doesn't have in your game.

 

I've found in my playthrough I didn't need to invest a lot of points in weapons (around 3 or 4 points) in the AZ part of the game and concentrated on non-combat skills. Now that I'm in LA, my non-combat skills are either maxed or nearly maxed (waiting on some skill books to max some of them) and now I'm putting up my combat skills. Pizepi already has 7 in Energy Weapons when you pick her up. I still think Pizepi is like another Angela, high hitpoints and can use one of the best weapons in the game. 

 

I think we'll agree to disagree.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[prodigydancer]

You admit Ralphy has worse stats than Pizepi and then say I'm gimping my core team.

By core team I mean the four rangers. And yes you gimped them because Cha is useless.

 

The rest of your post is just you trying too hard to misinterpret my words. 3/10 (for the effort). Try again.

 

/yawn

Edited November 3, 2014 by prodigydancer

[Enoch]

Also, if you killed any DBM, you miss out on a dialogue option with Sadler. There is an extra quest in Temple of Titan if you don't kill any monks. If you kill or let the monk that's following you die before the Temple, that quest disappears as they're not happy with you.

This doesn't have much at all to do with skill levels; more the order in which you do things.  I was able to get that "extra quest" because I completed it before I went into the silo.  (Once inside, my weak skill with Alarms made killing a couple Monks a necessity, but I got back on their good side by promising to Enola that I'd complete his quest.)  You need some explosives or Brute Force to get by one DBM patrol, but there's noting stopping you from taking them all out after you've talked with Sadler.  (Indeed, you should-- they're probably carrying better weapons than you are.) 

[Hiro Protagonist II]

By core team I mean the four rangers. And yes you gimped them because Cha is useless.

 

The rest of your post is just you trying too hard to misinterpret my words. 3/10 (for the effort). Try again.

 

/yawn

 

No, I didn't gimp my team. Funny how you always bring up that tired old argument without any proof.

 

And Cha isn't useless for one team member. If you have one character with a moderate amount of Cha and add Leadership to that person, it keeps every recruit in line. Since getting to Canyon of Titan, I've never had a recruit go rogue. And Pizepi has a higher chance of going rogue more than Rose. It also helps when you have your party spread out because they're still under your control. Now if there is something that's useless in the game, it's Barter.

 

How am I interpreting your words incorrectly? You're jumping to conclusions with my team and how I created them. You stated energy weapons perform worse than AR even against armored targets. No they don't.

 

So it's 0/10 with your posts, your incorrect statements. And you admit you don't have the G41 rifle. LOL. And all you're doing is going off charts with 'average' damage.

 

Oh, and here's Brother Thomas with 3 points in Energy Weapons doing 141 points of damage with the Death Ray Gun. Yep, Energy Weapons suck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Hiro Protagonist II]

This doesn't have much at all to do with skill levels; more the order in which you do things.  I was able to get that "extra quest" because I completed it before I went into the silo.  (Once inside, my weak skill with Alarms made killing a couple Monks a necessity, but I got back on their good side by promising to Enola that I'd complete his quest.)  You need some explosives or Brute Force to get by one DBM patrol, but there's noting stopping you from taking them all out after you've talked with Sadler.  (Indeed, you should-- they're probably carrying better weapons than you are.) 

 

If you don't have the skill levels, you will miss out on dialogue options with Sadler. Also, I did say at the start of the Temple, not near the end. The quest can disappear. With the DBM,  they didn't have better weapons than me. I had all M16s with the exception of Pizepi who had the Meson Cannon and it was a quick trip to the silo, back to Ranger Citadel and back to the Temple for the GRB. With fast travel and Outdoorsman 4+, you avoid all the random encounters so it's pretty quick.

[Enoch]

 

And Cha isn't useless for one team member. If you have one character with a moderate amount of Cha and add Leadership to that person, it keeps every recruit in line.

I've heard conflicting information on this-- I haven't tested it myself, but I think that the Rogue Chance reduction from Leadership is global.  That is, the CHA-based Leadership radius only affects the (rather miniscule) accuracy boost. 

[Enoch]

If you don't have the skill levels, you will miss out on dialogue options with Sadler. Also, I did say at the start of the Temple, not near the end. The quest can disappear. With the DBM,  they didn't have better weapons than me. I had all M16s with the exception of Pizepi who had the Meson Cannon and it was a quick trip to the silo, back to Ranger Citadel and back to the Temple for the GRB. With fast travel and Outdoorsman 4+, you avoid all the random encounters so it's pretty quick.

Yeah, but missing dialogue options with Sadler only goes to loot, not quest availability.

 

Also, AK-47s (which the DBM drop) are better than M16s, assuming that you're not worried about ammo cost.  Slightly lower non-crit median damage (30-50 vs. 37-48), but better armor penetration and a much higher crit multiplier.  All told, you do better with the commie guns, especially against all the robots that you start meeting in Damonta. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by Enoch

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I've heard conflicting information on this-- I haven't tested it myself, but I think that the Rogue Chance reduction from Leadership is global.  That is, the CHA-based Leadership radius only affects the (rather miniscule) accuracy boost. 

 

The rogue chance on my recruits did go down on their character sheets and it was the same in game. At the start, Rose would lose it quite a bit. By the time I got to Canyon of Titan, she didn't go rogue at all and hasn't done so. Pizepi has a higher chance to go rogue which she always did when I picked her up and now she's okay. I can only go off my own gameplay. I really don't see one character in your seven party team with moderate CHA and Leadership as gimping your party.

 

Also, I didn't bother about the small time you had the AK-47s. I had M16s for most of Arizona. You get access to the AK-47s at the end of Arizona and then you can get the AK-97s just after the start of LA. So I went straight to the AK-97s.

[Gromnir]

 

I've heard conflicting information on this-- I haven't tested it myself, but I think that the Rogue Chance reduction from Leadership is global.  That is, the CHA-based Leadership radius only affects the (rather miniscule) accuracy boost. 

 

The rogue chance on my recruits did go down on their character sheets and it was the same in game. At the start, Rose would lose it quite a bit. By the time I got to Canyon of Titan, she didn't go rogue at all and hasn't done so. Pizepi has a higher chance to go rogue which she always did when I picked her up and now she's okay. I can only go off my own gameplay. I really don't see one character in your seven party team with moderate CHA and Leadership as gimping your party.

 

Also, I didn't bother about the small time you had the AK-47s. I had M16s for most of Arizona. You get access to the AK-47s at the end of Arizona and then you can get the AK-97s just after the start of LA. So I went straight to the AK-97s.

 

am thinking you miss enoch's point. rogue chance is decreased by leadership and not specific by charisma. charisma only affects leadership by increasing that skill's area of effect. the question is whether leadership's rogue decrease has the same effective radius as its accuracy boost. enoch suggests the possibility that leadership rogue reduction effect is not having a range or area of effect as does the paltry and insignificant accuracy bonus.  therefore, a character with a charisma of one but six tiers of leadership would be as effective at decreasing joinable rogue chance as  would a character with a ten charisma and the same six tiers o' leadership.

 

do experiment:  have rose stand halfway across the map, clear beyond the effective range of any possible leadership accuracy boosting effect and check out her character record sheet. does rogue chance increase at some point? next, send rose out to engage combat at some distance exceeding the accuracy boost of your leader. am not certain if there is variables affecting rogue chance such as disparate levels 'tween rose and enemies or... whatever, so you likely gotta try your experiments 'gainst tough foes. maybe not. *shrug* regardless, run a combat encounter with rose at distance and wait for rose to either go rogue or to be getting feedback that your leader calmed her. am doubtful it takes more than a handful o' tries to get a rogue opportunity that is either actualized or suppressed. 

 

leadership effect range o' leadership intrigues us. we will check the next time we get an opportunity to play wasteland 2. an effective leader character with a charisma o' 1 tickles our fancy. 

 

HA! Good Fun. 

[Hiro Protagonist II]

am thinking you miss enoch's point. rogue chance is decreased by leadership and not specific by charisma. charisma only affects leadership by increasing that skill's area of effect. the question is whether leadership's rogue decrease has the same effective radius as its accuracy boost. enoch suggests the possibility that leadership rogue reduction effect is not having a range or area of effect as does the paltry and insignificant accuracy bonus.  therefore, a character with a charisma of one but six tiers of leadership would be as effective at decreasing joinable rogue chance as  would a character with a ten charisma and the same six tiers o' leadership.

 

do experiment:  have rose stand halfway across the map, clear beyond the effective range of any possible leadership accuracy boosting effect and check out her character record sheet. does rogue chance increase at some point? next, send rose out to engage combat at some distance exceeding the accuracy boost of your leader. am not certain if there is variables affecting rogue chance such as disparate levels 'tween rose and enemies or... whatever, so you likely gotta try your experiments 'gainst tough foes. maybe not. *shrug* regardless, run a combat encounter with rose at distance and wait for rose to either go rogue or to be getting feedback that your leader calmed her. am doubtful it takes more than a handful o' tries to get a rogue opportunity that is either actualized or suppressed. 

 

leadership effect range o' leadership intrigues us. we will check the next time we get an opportunity to play wasteland 2. an effective leader character with a charisma o' 1 tickles our fancy. 

 

HA! Good Fun. 

 

Yes I know rogue chance is affected by leadership and not charisma. When you have a party member go too far from your leader, the leadership icon disappears on top of their portrait. Charisma is like a default AoE for that character which gets larger the more points you put in it. I only put enough in one character to get Pizepi. I keep my leader who is one of my four best assault rifle characters in range of PIzepi and Rose and they never go rogue. As long as I see that leadership flag above their portrait, I know I'm all good. But as Enoch says, there's mixed reports. So saying it's gimping your party is not correct.

 

I've said before, I usually have one of my four core character out of battle keeping my pets safe and use him as a medic. That's how gimped my party is.

 

Also, I'd rather play the game than trying to prove something like this. Even if I showed youtube videos, would you accept it? Or would people questioning everything about all the conditions and variables. No thanks. I'm not here to write a thesis with the mechanics. If people are saying it gimps your party and it has no effect, they need to prove it and do the testing. As I said, I can only go off my gameplay.

 

Also, I note Enoch's post with him going to Santa Monica.

 

Yeah, I had trouble there, too, and the Gamma Ray Blaster was pretty much the reason that I had any chance at all.  Those nuns have high armor (7 or so?), a good amount of CON, and some high-tier weapons.  I had to use my secondary medic to resuscitate Rose. 

 

Not bad for energy weapons. But some would have us believe Assault Rifles are the best weapons in the game. Hey, if you had assault rifles, that would have been an easy battle with doing head shots! No need for energy weapons.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

It's probably overkill to focus on maxing certain skills, particularly doing so earlier in the game than you start seeing top-level skill checks.  For example, Demolitions is a priority skill that I had 8 ranks in before heading to LA.  But, shortly after landing, I found a trinket that gives +3 (!) to Demolitions.  So I'm never putting another point there.  (Similar with Rose's Surgeon-- I bought a +2 Surgeon trinket from the Monks at Titan.  No need to raise that above 8 unless I find a medical item that requires it and is also very useful in combat situations.) 

 

Definitely Max Perception.  Go all the way with Toasters (the skillbook is available early to buy that expensive 10th rank, and I've yet to see a trinket that affects it).  I can't abide the possibility of missing a ___ Ass check, and I saw my first 10-level check at Angel Oracle.  (My Ass has 9s in Hard and Kiss and alternates +1 trinkets for each; Pizepi has 10 in Smart.)  I've got Locks and Safes at 9 on my guys, waiting to see if I find a book or trinket to take me the rest of the way.  Field Medic probably doesn't need to go above 7.  "+Outdoorsman" trinkets are common, and the downside of failing a check is ... more XP!  I can't remember the last Mechanical Repair check I saw.  Alarm Disarm seems to be more relevant in LA than it was in Arizona-- it's probably the skill that I've most missed not having at tip-top level.  (I did have to kill a handful of Monks to get to see Titan.)  I can't abide having crowds of beasts blocking my maneuvering in combat, so I skip Animal Whisperer.  Barter is pointless.  (Maybe if it was +5% per rank, but +1%?  Pffft.) 

 

I usually don't max skills unless I have no trinket or book for those characters. My mechanical repair/toaster/weaponsmith character has a toolkit which gives +2 to all those skills and no minuses. Yes there is a trinket that gives +2 to toaster repair. Perfect that I gave that character all those skills. That character also has demolitions and I've already picked up the book early in the game and used it to get his 10th point. Also, that +3 demolitions trinket has minuses so I prefer not to use those types of trinkets unless it has no effect on my character. eg. +2 Kangaroo Paw (-1 animal whisperer) that I've given to Rose who now has 10 in outdoorsman and the minus doesn't affect her. In fact, Rose has so many points that I've now started her on Brute Force.

 

One character who has the locksmith/safecracking skills picked up the safecracking book in LA (it's early in the game). I used that for his 10th point. He has 9 points in locksmith and I'm waiting to pick up that book. The trinket that gives both safecracking and locksmithing severely gimps your character's strength with a -3.

 

There are some Animal Whisper quests in LA. Right from the start, there's a quest in Rodia that needs it and the skill check isn't high. But there is another one in Los Alamitos which has a very high check. Even with a 5, there's only a 27% chance.

[Gromnir]

 

 

Also, I'd rather play the game than trying to prove something like this. Even if I showed youtube videos, would you accept it? Or would people questioning everything about all the conditions and variables. No thanks. I'm not here to write a thesis with the mechanics. If people are saying it gimps your party and it has no effect, they need to prove it and do the testing. As I said, I can only go off my gameplay.

 

 

 

how odd. if enoch or many other boardies assured us that they had tested a feature from a game, we would have very little cause for suspicion. sure, is a few boardies we wouldn't trust if they told us that water is wet, but they is exceptional rather than rule. we already know that leadership skill is broken as the in-game description were/is claiming a +2% accuracy bonus per point, so it makes sense to be suspicious o' the implementation. we have no similar cause for doubting most boardies.

 

now, enoch has stated that there is conflicting info on the issue-- is not enoch who has tested. when we has a few minutes of free time, we will test and we will share results. it will be up to you to decide whether or not believe what we share.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

is only a brief test, but we received a "pizepi joren calmed" message multiple times on the prison map with our leader remaining at the entrance square far beyond the range of leadership accuracy boost. will test a bit more this eve.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Marceror]

My experience is that the reduction to rogue chance does not require proximity. The bonus to hit does.

 

It's been that way since beta, and to the best of my understanding still works that way now.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

^ That's good to hear. Also, I'm surprised so many people are taking out Pizepi, considering at least one person here thinks you're gimping your team if you do.

[Cantousent]

I'm sorry, guys, haven't been on the forum much, so I beg pardon if I'm covering old ground.  I am undoubtedly covering stuff folks have already talked to death.

 

Anyhow, I took a break after making it to Sunny

So Cal

.  I've been running around there for a bit and I walking into something called the Scorpetron or some such.  That is one mother ****ing monster, I assure you!  I admit, with no shame, I was surprised and got the chop the first time 'round.  The second fight, I put 'er down, but I had to resort to the ol' healbot route by having my medic just keep front liners on their feet.  I think of that as an exploit.  Just think, I opted not to take on this train yard thing or some such in around the prison area because I didn't want to fight three slicer dicers at one time.  As ol' Gromie would say, "Ha!  Good fun!"

 

As far as earlier stuff, I have had great fun with the game.  I especially thought it was funny that one of my guys was too close to a

suicidal monk

who detonated and I had to replace all of his clothing.  lol  Also, I don't know what the end cutscene will be, but I was disappointed that so many of my discretionary poitons were later questioned by my superiors.  [spoilers]no matter what they said, the mad monks had to go.  They were worse than the DBM.  They were worse than everybody with the exception of folks who literally would have wiped out humanity altogether.  Also, I think the Red Skoprions needed to go.  I didn't even start that fight, so whatever the 'peaceful solution' Gonzo thought I should find, I did what I had to do.

  Anyhow, great game.

 

I'm a little slow in following the discussion on this page that I see, but I have to admit that some of the skills seem to be weird, but I'm still having fun, so all's good.  The only real bitch I have, even with some oddities, is the fact that I could take Ralphy for toaster repair.  ...But I have some points in toaster repair already.  It's probably cheating to 'save scum' and save before toasters, but since I know that I can take the time to get Ralphy if I want, I just save.  It's not a challenge to hoof it back to an NPC.  It's merely a longer way to get around to something that I can get simply by saving.  I think that's a design flaw personally, but I don't care as long as I have fun.  I've done about five areas in

Sunny So Cal

and I'm amused that there is one place I don't recognize.

 

EDIT:  Oh, and I took the Italian mutant chic.  However, I took virtually everyone because of what they could offer skillwise.  I'm only playing on Ranger level now, so it might change in Jerk level, but I'm happy enough with her.  There are only a few skills my team doesn't already cover.  Of course, I don't care about barter in the first place, so that's not a big deal.  I will say, later on, energy weapons truly shine in some key battles.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Cantousent

[Hiro Protagonist II]

With the Canyon/Temple of Titan areas. There's an option to:

 

 

 

Not side with either DBM or Monks. Go to Silo 7, disarm the missile. Go back to Temple of Titan and all the Monks are dead. When you enter, Father Enola is half dead, lying on the ground. When you talk to him, he mentions the DBM and Raiders killed the monks and are now killing each other. Before he dies, he says, 'You suck'.

 

So the monks die anyway if you don't side with either. And it looks like the DBM are cleaning up the raiders.

 

 

 

Also, there's a Backer skill called Southwestern Folklore. You can get 4 books from a vendor at the start at Ranger Citadel and they give you an automatic 10 for each character who uses them. Really enjoying the history that pops up. Already knew about things like the Watts towers in Rodia and was amused when the history came up in the log to the right of the screen.

[Gromnir]

^ That's good to hear. 

why?  the way leadership worked in the beta is we got a 2% accuracy boost per level, and in-game description continues to boast a +2% boost that we do not get, but that is a whole 'nother issue. if you were arguing that charisma is valuable 'cause of its impact on the leadership skill's zone o' influence, then a recognition that charisma gots zero influence on the rogue chance is serious undercutting such a stance. the charisma boost has negligible impact on experience gains (our 6 charisma ranger is leveling noticeably slower than our 4 and 3 charisma rangers 'cause his skills is leadership and hard arse; additional points in charisma don't obviate the xp disparity resulting from absence o' frequent use skills such as safe-crack and demolitions,) so am finding it hard to argue against the proposition that placing points in charisma is anything other than a gimping of a ranger... even if such gimping were unintended.

 

aside: against both under and overpowered foes, the proximity o' the ranger with skill levels in leadership is having 0 impact on the dozen or so encounters we has run as tests o' leadership. the abandoned rail yard is ideal for such testing as we have both weak and strong opponents on the same map, and we are able to send our leader to extreme ends o' the map away from our remaining rangers. we used an old save with level 18 rangers. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Okay I decided to do Santa Monica again, but this time I had Brother Thomas with me. And I kept Higgins out of the fight with him staying with his two dogs Zeus and Apollo and the +1 INT Rat.

 

No people in the town were killed. None of my party went down. Total slaughter. LOL. My party is around level 28. A couple on level 29.

 

Also, I have screen shots with Rose with her 10 points in AR with a burst headshot and this is why headshots are unreliable. it might look good on paper, but in game it's another story.

 

 

 

Important: I pick up the +5 Combat Initiative ring from the RPGCodex Shrine/Vault and gave it to Pizepi. The Ring is a must for someone like Pizepi imo. It has a -15% to evade but when you have cover or kneeling down, it cancels it out. But it's the +5 CI that makes her just WOW.

 

1. I spoke to Preacher Jinto and KISS ASS him. This then makes the enemies neutral. And it allows you to position your party. Note that I positioned them on the other side of the truck and they all had cover. They also had clear shots without killing any townsfolk in the way. Higgins is out of the picture at the entrance of map and stays there for the entire fight. At the start, Pizepi shoots Preacher Jinto and the fight starts. Pizepi is now at the top of initiative order and finishes him off.

 

After Magnum hits a nun with his burst. Rose takes out a nun with her normal burst. No head shot. 134 points of damage.

 

 

2. Brother Thomas hits a nun with his Death Ray. 151 Points of damage.

 

 

3. Pizepi hits a nun with a burst of the GRB for 349 points of damage.

 

 

4. Pizepi changes to single shot with the GRB as she's accumulated an extra 2 APs and takes out two nuns that were on around 1/3 health. 134 damage to one and kills them. 105 damage to the other and kills them.

 

 

 

5. I NOW give Rose an opportunity to shine with her 10 AR skill with a headshot. The percentage to hit is 48%. And that's with the +10% from cover.

 

 

5 (continued). Rose shoots and only two of the three bullets hit dealing a total of 152 damage.

 

 

Rose's 10 points in Assault Rifles.

 

 

6. Brother Thomas hits the same guy that Rose hits with the Death Ray dealing 153 points of damage. ONE point more than Rose with her head shot. And Brother Thomas has 3 points in Energy Weapons.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, I'm really enjoying Energy Weapons.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Enoch]

Hilarious bug/feature:  the Monocle trinket (meaningful penalty to CI, +3 to attack range) works for melee combatants.  Put on a Monocle, and you can Hadouken somebody 10 feet away.  (Slowly.) 

 

 

Also, thanks doing the rogue-chance testing, Gromnir. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Enoch

[Hiro Protagonist II]

why?  the way leadership worked in the beta is we got a 2% accuracy boost per level, and in-game description continues to boast a +2% boost that we do not get, but that is a whole 'nother issue. if you were arguing that charisma is valuable 'cause of its impact on the leadership skill's zone o' influence, then a recognition that charisma gots zero influence on the rogue chance is serious undercutting such a stance. the charisma boost has negligible impact on experience gains (our 6 charisma ranger is leveling noticeably slower than our 4 and 3 charisma rangers 'cause his skills is leadership and hard arse; additional points in charisma don't obviate the xp disparity resulting from absence o' frequent use skills such as safe-crack and demolitions,) so am finding it hard to argue against the proposition that placing points in charisma is anything other than a gimping of a ranger... even if such gimping were unintended.

 

aside: against both under and overpowered foes, the proximity o' the ranger with skill levels in leadership is having 0 impact on the dozen or so encounters we has run as tests o' leadership. the abandoned rail yard is ideal for such testing as we have both weak and strong opponents on the same map, and we are able to send our leader to extreme ends o' the map away from our remaining rangers. we used an old save with level 18 rangers. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I'm having the opposite effect with my Leader and his levelling. When I picked up Pizepi (level 16), I was level 11. Now at level 28/29, we've caught up to her but my Leader is now ahead of every body else including Pizepi and Brother Thomas. He hit level 30 on that encounter in Santa Monica and everyone else is at the end of level 28 or mostly on level 29 including Pizepi. My leader has broken away from the pack. I wasn't really taking much notice of it until you mentioned it. It's only a small gain but now I've noticed it.

 

Also, I kept my Charisma for the other characters pretty low. I'm at work and from memory, Magnum has like a 1 and TC with a 2. I only upped my Charisma on one character and gave him the Leadership skill. Kept everyone else quite low.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I did a mistake with that fight in Santa Monica. I forgot to change out Brother Thomas' secondary weapon (SMG) for an energy weapon. A 4AP 2 Burst energy weapon that would have made him do around 200 damage all up. When he hits level 30, I'll assign a skill that'll give him an extra AP making it 11. And then change his secondary weapon to a 5AP Energy weapon. I'd have to say my party with Rose, Pizepi and Brother Thomas is pretty awesome.

[Cantousent]

It seems pretty clear to me that most skills are simply important in and of themselves.  There's a splash screen hint that says you should select skills that go with attributes, but I don't think most of them matter.  In fact, in the PoE Wasteland 2 thread, folks were debating the disconnect between brute force as a skill and actually brute strength in a character.  I mean, it hasn't stopped me from enjoying the game, but it's a bit weird.  I personally don't like individual XP gains, but I'm not going to let it bug me.  It just means that your skill monkeys will tend to get a bump in XP, but usually not enough to make a huge difference.  I think my party is pretty much within one or two levels of each other.

 

I'm absolutely certain someone has already mentioned this, but there's something truly wrong with having no skill or attribute associated with grenades and rocket launchers.  Once again, won't ruin what has been a great game, but it is an insane design.  I have all my grenades on one person for RP reasons, but I think depending on the player to RP through incompetent/hasty design is a real short-coming.  ...But the grenade issue is the only one that I find truly weird.  On the other hand, the toaster repair thing is actually a little vexing.

 

Anyhow, before I passed out last night, I found the

angel command or whatever it's called where the Mannerites hang out.  I'm sure they'll end up being bad guys, but I was actually impressed that they gave off a brief bad guy vibe, but they actually act pretty decent so far.  To be fair, I haven't been in the place yet, but there were folks who needed help and they went to help them.  In particular, I thought they were going to shoot the hobo, so I followed the guard and he actually tried to be nice to him.  I mean, maybe he offed him after I left, but I stayed a while to watch the floating text.  Pretty good job.  Real comedy.

 

[Gromnir]

 

why?  the way leadership worked in the beta is we got a 2% accuracy boost per level, and in-game description continues to boast a +2% boost that we do not get, but that is a whole 'nother issue. if you were arguing that charisma is valuable 'cause of its impact on the leadership skill's zone o' influence, then a recognition that charisma gots zero influence on the rogue chance is serious undercutting such a stance. the charisma boost has negligible impact on experience gains (our 6 charisma ranger is leveling noticeably slower than our 4 and 3 charisma rangers 'cause his skills is leadership and hard arse; additional points in charisma don't obviate the xp disparity resulting from absence o' frequent use skills such as safe-crack and demolitions,) so am finding it hard to argue against the proposition that placing points in charisma is anything other than a gimping of a ranger... even if such gimping were unintended.

 

aside: against both under and overpowered foes, the proximity o' the ranger with skill levels in leadership is having 0 impact on the dozen or so encounters we has run as tests o' leadership. the abandoned rail yard is ideal for such testing as we have both weak and strong opponents on the same map, and we are able to send our leader to extreme ends o' the map away from our remaining rangers. we used an old save with level 18 rangers. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I'm having the opposite effect with my Leader and his levelling. When I picked up Pizepi (level 16), I was level 11. Now at level 28/29, we've caught up to her but my Leader is now ahead of every body else including Pizepi and Brother Thomas. He hit level 30 on that encounter in Santa Monica and everyone else is at the end of level 28 or mostly on level 29 including Pizepi. My leader has broken away from the pack. I wasn't really taking much notice of it until you mentioned it. It's only a small gain but now I've noticed it.

 

Also, I kept my Charisma for the other characters pretty low. I'm at work and from memory, Magnum has like a 1 and TC with a 2. I only upped my Charisma on one character and gave him the Leadership skill. Kept everyone else quite low.

 

without more info, your anecdote is less than enlightening. what skills does your high charisma ranger posses? as we noted above, the character we got with the charisma o' six has skills that do not get frequent use. based on our experience, a two or three point differential in charisma is less significant (far less significant) than skill choice insofar as xp gains is concerned. Gromnir is already at level 25/26, so your three additional levels is hardly a meaningful factor.

 

high charisma is a waste. is arguable that any charisma past 1 is a waste. charisma doesn't affect leadership area of effect, and it has less impact on xp gains than does skill choice.  in fact, with benefit o' game experience and some testing, we would feel confident in stating that charisma is less useful than is luck, and luck is not particular useful either. charisma is to attributes as barter is to skills. 

 

one wonders what the inxile developers were thinking when they created two dump attributes.  

 

HA! Good Fun!