Revisting cultural and backgrounds role

[Arden]

Now that it is going to be longer to get out I'd like to go over some small changes.

Change starting equipment to starting gold.

 

Instead of culture use Background to set Attribute bonus.

 

Like slave or laborer +1 Might  hunter +1 Dexterity ,Mercenary +1 Constitution, Scholar +1 Intellect,

Merchant +1 Perception, Colonist +1 Resolve ..ect   Their background is how they developed no mater the race or culture.

 

This would mean in character creation culture and background can come before class then attributes.

[Monte Carlo]

No offence, but I think the whole point of the delay is to polish and improve stuff they've already done, not create new stuff.

 

That said, there's nothing wrong with your idea, I quite like it.

[Arden]

yes I don't think it would be worked on just going over older idea that was dropped.

I thought it would be more in line with rpg. Maybe next time (expansion) it could be looked at?

[Sensuki]

I don't think it's unreasonable to have background give +1 to an attribute.

[Lephys]

I really wish we had something at character creation that more closely resembled Traits from Fallout, or Backgrounds from Arcanum.

 

I realize that we don't know all the exact instances that will be affected by your cultural and background choice in PoE, BUT they don't really change much from the point of character creation. Cultural selection grants stat bonuses, and that's about it. It'd be kind of nice if they affected starting skill ratings, or allowed you to select Level-1 talents (if those are put in, which I hope they are) from an exclusive group of Culture-only talents, etc.

[Namutree]

Interesting idea.

[curryinahurry]

I'd rather have backgrounds give a skill bonus...seems to be more consistent with the idea of prior occupation/career

[Namutree]

I'd rather have backgrounds give a skill bonus...seems to be more consistent with the idea of prior occupation/career

Good idea.

[Gromnir]

until something fundamental changes with character creation, you may always re-enter the ability tab. what this means is that whether you get a +1 to an ability before or after the creating your ability spread is largely meaningless as you can simply re-click the ability tab and distribute your +1 however you so desire. doesn't matter if the +1 comes from backgrounds or culture. from a practical perspective, the +1 ability modifier impacts initial minimums or maximums of an ability score and nothing else. whether the point comes from backgrounds or cultures, what you get is a general +1 ability modifier unattached to any specific ability.

 

HA! Good Fun! 

[Arden]

I'd rather have backgrounds give a skill bonus...seems to be more consistent with the idea of prior occupation/career

 

Yes curryinahurry connecting the past with a matching and meaningful bonus makes backgrounds important and a more flush character. They are using Skill bonus tied to Class and culture for attribute bonus.

Instead use backgrounds for 1 skill and 1 attribute perhaps ?

[curryinahurry]

^ Hmmm...possibly.  It might be a bit much...Actually the interesting thing to do would be to have backgrounds give both pluses and minuses.  Hunter fro example might give a plus to stealth, a plus to dexterity but a minus to intellect.  Choices would be a bit more meaningful in such a case.

 

Gromnir also makes a good point in his post about all of this being fodder for metagaming, maybe adding in some negatives would make the CC process a bit less straightforward,  "pump x  stat".

[Sensuki]

+1 to a skill is also good.

[gkathellar]

^ Hmmm...possibly.  It might be a bit much...Actually the interesting thing to do would be to have backgrounds give both pluses and minuses.  Hunter fro example might give a plus to stealth, a plus to dexterity but a minus to intellect.  Choices would be a bit more meaningful in such a case.

 

Gromnir also makes a good point in his post about all of this being fodder for metagaming, maybe adding in some negatives would make the CC process a bit less straightforward,  "pump x  stat".

 

Or, alternately additional minor positives. Race, culture and background are all largely cosmetic at the moment (yes, even for godlike). It's not exactly a dealbreaker, but I would love it if they gave more definite features.

[curryinahurry]

^ I think larger racial/background bonuses leads to the inevitable pick the x race, y culture, and z background for the best wixard, rogue, etc.  It seems to be a metagaming tactic Obsidian is actively trying to discourage.  That's partially why I suggested background/occupation be tied to a skill.  These are admittedly, mostly for 'flavor', but it will at least have some bearing in the game.

[Sensuki]

Race and Culture matters even less now than v278 IMO, as you're not dumping stuff down to 3 to get max scores.

[curryinahurry]

True, but look at it this way; pick a dwarf, + 2 might, form the living lands, +1 might, add in a +1 from laborer (as a possibility in the OP's proposal), now you have a no brainer for a rogue or DPS fighter build.  +4 is a pretty significant bonus, even with the current game configuration.

[Sensuki]

I thought +1 to a skill was the better option

[Arden]

yes +1 skill option is good, I was attempting to take away culture +1 attribute also.

[Arden]

The original storm bringer PnP had plus and negatives you could even play the background of a leaper.

The character background should let the dialog tree provide different options, so the plus skill has more merit after all.

[curryinahurry]

^ ^{Josh Sawyer's influence for many of these items is Darklands.  It has the most robust character creation  process in crpg history (in my esitmatiom) .}  

 

^{BTW My fonts are all screwed up..sorry for the results}

Edited October 4, 2014 by curryinahurry

[gkathellar]

^ I think larger racial/background bonuses leads to the inevitable pick the x race, y culture, and z background for the best wixard, rogue, etc.  It seems to be a metagaming tactic Obsidian is actively trying to discourage.  That's partially why I suggested background/occupation be tied to a skill.  These are admittedly, mostly for 'flavor', but it will at least have some bearing in the game.

 

Well, there are already cases of that - Wood Elves, for instance, force you to ask yourself "why am I not using this?" every time you create a ranged character.  I think giving each race a little more of interest - or anything, in some cases coughcoughpaleelvescoughcough - could increase their viability in a variety of roles.

 

I'm not advocating for more attribute bonuses, mind you. "Larger numbers," is rarely, if ever, a good solution. I'd much rather see more unique ability thingies, or see the existing ones assigned greater value.

Edited October 4, 2014 by gkathellar

[curryinahurry]

Did you see my recent example about the additive nature of these bonuses? Give us a few examples....not a challenge, I just want to see what you're thinking because I'm not sure I understand what you want.

[Lephys]

Yeah, I'd like for things like backgrounds/cultural choices to provide more... flavor, for lack of a better word. Not in the sense of "purely fun/cosmetic stuff." But... less "one of your numbers is simply raised," and more "your character is unique in only a way that this particular background/culture can provide."

 

That's why I made the comparison to traits from Fallout. You couldn't ever just level up and achieve the same effect as Finesse, for example.

 

Just as one example, what if your cultural choice gave you bonuses to Accuracy with particular weapons? "You're much more familiar with the Spear and the Longbow" or something. Probably not the best example, but nothing else would make you better specifically with just the spear and the long bow. OR... OOOH! Better example. EXAMPLE MULLIGAN! Haha.

 

Since the Weapon Specialization talents already boost your accuracy with weapon groups, what if your cultural choice affected your critical chance with particular weapons? As in version 1.0 of the example, above, it wouldn't have to be the same number of weapons as the Specialization talents (I think they're groups of 5 or 6 weapons?), so maybe just one or two. A melee and a ranged? *shrug*.

 

But, that's the style of effect I look for in something like culture/background selection. Something that makes your character your character, and not just "well, you ALSO have 17 Might, but 1 of that comes from the fact that you are from THIS region."

 

Also, it's not necessarily that there's a problem with character creation having cultural options that give you stat bonuses. That's basically a more-interesting form of racial bonuses, so I'm totally fine with that. So, either background should be the more interesting thing, or something akin to Traits should be added. Really, though, since backgrounds are already there, it'd be best to use those, like Arcanum did. Arcanum's were at least interesting (usually a stat bonus and/or stat detriment, various skill bonuses, and/or some unique effect such as "better reactions from females," etc.)

[Arden]

quick thought background creates starting reputation?

[AlperTheCaglar]

This is an excellent thread. Background right now are there in a very unpolished state.

 

Not only should the stats or mathematical bonuses be coherent with the background selected, but also simple reflection of this during gameplay shouldn't be too hard to implement.

 

A merchant having better prices in towns, a mercenary being offered the odd quest for coins--

 

Even tiny, itsy bitsy "gather this, get this" quest would be a nice treat to reflect those backgrounds in game. The more connections to the storyline, the better. There should be no redundant or irrelevant character creations choices.