What PoE can learn from Wasteland 2 release? (faults and lessons to learn)

[PrimeJunta]

 

 

Allowing savescuming was design choice just like having 4 difficulties is a design choice.

 

Indeed, except that it's a bad design choice, unlike having 4 difficulties.

 

Says you. I say differently. What now?

 

I dunno. End of discussion?

Edited October 6, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[archangel979]

 

 

 

Allowing savescuming was design choice just like having 4 difficulties is a design choice.

 

Indeed, except that it's a bad design choice, unlike having 4 difficulties.

 

Says you. I say differently. What now?

 

 

I dunno. End of discussion?

 

It was long time ago.

[Lephys]

"Yes!"

"No!"

Done.

 

Very fruitful "discussion." Everybody learn much knowledge!

[Cantousent]

"Yes!"

"No!"

Done.

 

Very fruitful "discussion." Everybody learn much knowledge!

I laughed out loud.  It was ever thus in the world of online bulletin boards.

[archangel979]

"Yes!"

"No!"

Done.

 

Very fruitful "discussion." Everybody learn much knowledge!

On the internet there is only arguing, no discussions. And nobody cares to concede because unlike real life talking to strangers lets you "always win" in your mind. 

[PrimeJunta]

Man @archangel you sure talk a lot about this "winning" thing.

[Cantousent]

If some small kernal of the discussion leads to a better game in some way, we all win. Other imspiring messages to follow

[Lephys]

On the internet there is only arguing, no discussions.

Not with that attitude there's not. That's like running around punching everyone you see in the face, and saying "There's no such thing as a peaceful meeting."

 

What happened to you, archangel, to make you so cynical and bitter? Sincere question.

[phalzyr]

 

So ... do we not even talk about DOS on this forum?  Just seems odd that no comparisons have been made there.  They just that different.

 

I'm a long time admirer and supporter of Larian, I used to love Divine Divinity (dat name)-- but Divinity Original sin was not my cup of tea.

 

It was embarrassingly linear and had an abysmal puzzle system, the towns (for it had no cities) were (although designed with great love and diligence) too small, and the number of merchants could be counted by one hand.

 

Their engine and combat accomplishments however did deserve praise, even though it dragged on at times just because of how slow animations were.

 

 

Can't speak for puzzle system yet only got to first town and around a bit... but the first town has around 10 people in it that are merchants (in main square there are seven I think), and those not designated as merchants can also be traded with... How many fingers do you have on one hand ??? :D

[archangel979]

 

On the internet there is only arguing, no discussions.

Not with that attitude there's not. That's like running around punching everyone you see in the face, and saying "There's no such thing as a peaceful meeting."

 

What happened to you, archangel, to make you so cynical and bitter? Sincere question.

I had too many discussions with people like PrimeJunta.

[Lephys]

I had too many discussions with people like PrimeJunta.

I know that feel, but:

 

A) PrimeJunta isn't the type of person who eliminates the possibility of actual discussion, and

B) Automatically assuming no one's actually going to discuss anything with you isn't really a justification for never giving actual discussion a shot.

 

The only losing at forums that can possibly occur is the active inhibition of discussion. Disagreements can be productive. Even polar opposite ones. The whole point of discussion is to find out what can actually be learned on both sides, even in the midst of a disagreement. Not to determine "Oh, we didn't happen to be in perfect agreement from the start? Well, then I guess we can never talk to each other again."

 

Basically, you're either seeking out discussion where you can find it, or you aren't. And if you aren't... well, you're not doing anyone much good, yourself included.

 

Opinion sharing is fine, but to what end? That's the question discussion asks.

[Cantousent]

I don't want to get too far away from the Wasteland topic, but I think it's important to separate your attitudes about logical (or even illogical) arguments and the folks who make them.  ...And remember that you might disagree with someone on one topic today and be on the same side tomorrow.  That's actually true for you, my angelic friend.  I've disagreed with you and agreed with you on various topics.

 

On the other hand, I've also found that getting in between combatants is a good way to smacked on both sides of the head at the same time.  <.<  Which means I'd better keep my head down after making this post.  Then again, if folks get really belligerent, they'll probably just lock the thread.

 

BTW:  Wasteland 2 is a great game, but I don't know what else can be learned from it to include in PoE.  ...But I'm sure we'll keep discussing it.  lol

[Sylvius the Mad]

First 5 hours of gameplay matter.  They matter a lot. People will post bad reviews online if they won't get engaged in the game during the beginning of a storyline.  Wasteland 2 really screwed beginning of the game. It was boring, long, with nothing to spark your interest.

That's one of the best things about Wasteland 2. What are you talking about? I want exactly that from a roleplaying game - drop me in the world and let me figure out what I want to do. Giving me strong direction is the last thing I want.

 

That's a big part of what's wrong with modern games. Wasteland 2 is incredibly refreshing in this regard.

[Lephys]

That's one of the best things about Wasteland 2. What are you talking about? I want exactly that from a roleplaying game - drop me in the world and let me figure out what I want to do. Giving me strong direction is the last thing I want.

 

That's a big part of what's wrong with modern games. Wasteland 2 is incredibly refreshing in this regard.

Fallout was kind of the same way. "We need a water chip. Now go have fun outside, *shove*". Heh.

 

I mean, there's still such a thing as TOO dull. But, yeah, it's kind of refreshing to just be a dude in the world who has a goal, and not have fate constantly sweeping you toward epicness.

[Endrosz]

You misunderstood the OP. He's not talking about the lack of hand-holding, he's talking about the lack of interesting stuff. And I agree with him, the beginning of WL2 doesn't really entice you to play the rest of it. The very early setup -- Ace's funeral and Angie's joining -- worked for me, but after that, meh.

[Lephys]

Since there's no quote, I'm assuming that the "you" who misunderstood is supposed to be me.

 

I don't think I did, but I apologize if it seemed like I was just talking about hand-holding. I was't trying to.

 

Also, I'm not trying to dispute specifically about Wasteland 2. The physical copies have been delayed, so I haven't actually gotten to sit down and play it yet.

 

Anywho, I'm just sort of questioning the necessity of a certain quantity of "interesting" stuff within the first few hours of a game, is all. Again, there's a wrong way to do it, definitely. But I question the "not enough" part. Would tossing in "some more" really do it any good? Or is it just the nature of the design of that first bit of the game that's bad, simply because it wasn't done well enough?

[archangel979]

Start of WL2 is OK until you get to first bigger map. Both are way too big for such early maps. It takes effort to have enough fun to finish it. And after that the bigger game opens up and the main fun begins.

[phalzyr]

Start of WL2 is OK until you get to first bigger map. Both are way too big for such early maps. It takes effort to have enough fun to finish it. And after that the bigger game opens up and the main fun begins.

So you are complaining that there is too much content for the early portion? Maybe the complaint should be that they make that content more fun j/k

[archangel979]

 

Start of WL2 is OK until you get to first bigger map. Both are way too big for such early maps. It takes effort to have enough fun to finish it. And after that the bigger game opens up and the main fun begins.

So you are complaining that there is too much content for the early portion? Maybe the complaint should be that they make that content more fun j/k

 

It is hard to make it fun where it is so large. It needs to be cut 30% and what is left will be fun. It starts as "what is this" and turns into "well this is interesting" and then goes to "ok, I just need to do this and this" and ends up as "when is the end of this already?!". 

[Failion]

The boring thing about wastelands 2 art outside of character animations its all static and nothing was animated. Having simple **** like trees swaying in the wind makes a game more visually alluring. Wasteland 2 does have clearer and better character models then PoE also ui inventory. Wasteland 2 is open world but boring. The places you visit feel modular compared to fallout 2 and how the towns reacted to each other in that game. But then again it is a WASTELAND where the population of places is only a couple dozen people unlike fallout world. Radiation kills fast unlike in fallout where it gives you magic powers lol.

[Lephys]

Radiation kills fast unlike in fallout where it gives you magic powers lol.

Such as the powers of stat-loss, and vomiting!

[Failion]

 

Radiation kills fast unlike in fallout where it gives you magic powers lol.

Such as the powers of stat-loss, and vomiting!

 

Its equivalent to a runny nose in real life.

[illathid]

The boring thing about wastelands 2 art outside of character animations its all static and nothing was animated. Having simple **** like trees swaying in the wind makes a game more visually alluring. Wasteland 2 does have clearer and better character models then PoE also ui inventory. Wasteland 2 is open world but boring. The places you visit feel modular compared to fallout 2 and how the towns reacted to each other in that game. But then again it is a WASTELAND where the population of places is only a couple dozen people unlike fallout world. Radiation kills fast unlike in fallout where it gives you magic powers lol.

I think the PoE characters look much better than W2's. Not sure why you think otherwise.

[dorkboy]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but: Don't hand out [potentially buggy] pre-release review versions to gaming sites.

[Volourn]

WL2 is awesome. That's all PE needs to learn from it. BE AWESOME.