How to make a Stamina/HP system work

[Mr. Magniloquent]

PoE has no restorative magic. Having your characters die forever once defeated with no chance of revival is considered punitive and enjoyable by most standards--particularly modern ones. They needed some mechanic to plausibly allow a character to "die" yet "not die". There's your health & stamina system. It's like riding a bike with training wheels. Anyone determined to cause the bike to fall over can do so, but it's not even half as easy to flip your bicycle as without them.

[Marceror]

But... the stamina health system is already getting actively reworked. Is the OP not aware of that, or somehow not happy with the proposed ideas?

 

And it's now the endurance/health system. No more stamina.

 

health will be a multiplier of endurance, so 30 endurance might by 120 health for a wizard (x4) and 180 health for a fighter (x6). This should contribute to less resting for frontliners.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

And it's now the endurance/health system. No more stamina.

 

health will be a multiplier of endurance, so 30 endurance might by 120 health for a wizard (x4) and 180 health for a fighter (x6). This should contribute to less resting for frontliners.

 

Where did you read that? That's very new to me. Does that mean "Health" is now one consolidated pool, or does it function the same but with a different ratio loss? I'd love a link.

[Marceror]

1 to 1 ratio loss, but health will be a multiplier of endurance, so expect multipliers larger than x4 for tankier classes, to make them go longer without needing rest.. I'll link the post in a sec. Josh posted here a couple of nights ago.

 

 

EDIT - From My Sawyer:

 

Only tangentially related, but we've already made changes to the Stamina (soon to be Endurance) and Health system that should a) make front-line characters (like fighters) more survivable in the long-term and b) make the system clearer overall.

 

The previous system kept Stamina and Health values pretty much equal.  Behind the scenes, as you took damage, a fraction of what went to Stamina would go to Health.  That fraction was smaller for barbarians with Thick-Skinned, but otherwise it was the same for all classes.

 

We now simply apply damage 1:1 to Stamina (Endurance) and Health, but Health is determined differently for different classes (but always through a multiplier).  Front-line characters are expected to take a lot of abuse and get combat-healed more often, so they have a superior ratio of Endurance to Health.  This will (well, actually it already does in our initial playtests) help prevent front-liners from forcing the party to rest after two fights even when the rest of the group has a lot of per rest abilities and Health left.  The ratios are very easy to tune, but most importantly, it is much, much clearer how everything works.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Marceror

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Thank you for the link. So with this system, the Health:Endurance ratio will be something like X:YX, so that they would be knocked out when XY <= 0. Am I understanding that correctly?

[Marceror]

More like Endurance = x, health = x * y, where y equals the multiplier applied by class.

 

I'm expecting multipliers between 4 - 8, maybe as high as 10 for a barbarian. But this is still being worked out by the design team.

 

EDIT: Reread your post. A player would be knocked down when X = 0. They would be dead when XY = 0 (depending on difficulty level).

Edited September 12, 2014 by Marceror

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Well, so long as the statistic that determines if you "die the final death" is higher than the "knockout" statistic, it should work. Having it the other way around when damage is applied evenly across both Health & Endurance will neither change or solve anything. To phrase differently, your knockout resource has to be lower than your death resource; otherwise, with a 1:1 distribution of damage, you'll be dead with plenty of fight left in you.

[Marceror]

Yes, in that regard I think it will work exactly as it does now. The difference is that endurance and health will be lost at the same rate, but health will draw from a much larger pool.

 

Endurance = stamina, and as it is currently, will be the resource that takes a player out of a fight when depleted. Health will be the resource that is important for character death.

[morhilane]

Thank you for the link. So with this system, the Health:Endurance ratio will be something like X:YX, so that they would be knocked out when XY <= 0. Am I understanding that correctly?

 

The idea is that classes with higher ratio can take more punishment on their health which will make them require less frequent resting to replenish it. The system remain unchanged beside this.

 

For example, a Barbarian might have a 100 endurance and 500 health (5 * Endurance).

 

In the first encounter, the Fighter is hit for a total 80 points of damage. His health is now down at 420.

In the second encounter, the Fighter is hit for 120 points of damage. His Health is now 300.

In the third encounter, he gets hit for 50 points of damage. Health is now 250.

In the final boss fight, he gets hit for 200 points of damage (this was boss). Health is now 50 and resting should be envisaged.

[Marceror]

 

Thank you for the link. So with this system, the Health:Endurance ratio will be something like X:YX, so that they would be knocked out when XY <= 0. Am I understanding that correctly?

 

The idea is that classes with higher ratio can take more punishment on their health which will make them require less frequent resting to replenish it. The system remain unchanged beside this.

 

For example, a Barbarian might have a 100 endurance and 500 health (5 * Endurance).

 

In the first encounter, the Fighter is hit for a total 80 points of damage. His health is now down at 420.

In the second encounter, the Fighter is hit for 120 points of damage. His Health is now 300.

In the third encounter, he gets hit for 50 points of damage. Health is now 250.

In the final boss fight, he gets hit for 200 points of damage (this was boss). Health is now 50 and resting should be envisaged.

 

Except, the multiplier that you use as an example would cause a barbarian to need to rest a lot more often than current.

 

At present, from third level on (IIRC) a barbarian takes 1 health damage for every 8 stamina/endurance damage. So for a barbarian to be on par with current, in your example, they would need to have 800 health (8 * endurance). For them to become "more resilient" they would need an even higher multiplier. 9 or maybe even 10 would probably be appropriate.

[morhilane]

 

 

Thank you for the link. So with this system, the Health:Endurance ratio will be something like X:YX, so that they would be knocked out when XY <= 0. Am I understanding that correctly?

 

The idea is that classes with higher ratio can take more punishment on their health which will make them require less frequent resting to replenish it. The system remain unchanged beside this.

 

For example, a Barbarian might have a 100 endurance and 500 health (5 * Endurance).

 

In the first encounter, the Fighter is hit for a total 80 points of damage. His health is now down at 420.

In the second encounter, the Fighter is hit for 120 points of damage. His Health is now 300.

In the third encounter, he gets hit for 50 points of damage. Health is now 250.

In the final boss fight, he gets hit for 200 points of damage (this was boss). Health is now 50 and resting should be envisaged.

 

Except, the multiplier that you use as an example would cause a barbarian to need to rest a lot more often than current.

 

At present, from third level on (IIRC) a barbarian takes 1 health damage for every 8 stamina/endurance damage. So for a barbarian to be on par with current, in your example, they would need to have 800 health (8 * endurance). For them to become "more resilient" they would need an even higher multiplier. 9 or maybe even 10 would probably be appropriate.

 

 

I don't think they are going to remove the Barbarian "thick skin", they are probably going to keep it that their endurance/health damage conversation is different than the other classes once they gain the passive. The system is already in place for it.

[Marceror]

 

 

 

Thank you for the link. So with this system, the Health:Endurance ratio will be something like X:YX, so that they would be knocked out when XY <= 0. Am I understanding that correctly?

 

The idea is that classes with higher ratio can take more punishment on their health which will make them require less frequent resting to replenish it. The system remain unchanged beside this.

 

For example, a Barbarian might have a 100 endurance and 500 health (5 * Endurance).

 

In the first encounter, the Fighter is hit for a total 80 points of damage. His health is now down at 420.

In the second encounter, the Fighter is hit for 120 points of damage. His Health is now 300.

In the third encounter, he gets hit for 50 points of damage. Health is now 250.

In the final boss fight, he gets hit for 200 points of damage (this was boss). Health is now 50 and resting should be envisaged.

 

Except, the multiplier that you use as an example would cause a barbarian to need to rest a lot more often than current.

 

At present, from third level on (IIRC) a barbarian takes 1 health damage for every 8 stamina/endurance damage. So for a barbarian to be on par with current, in your example, they would need to have 800 health (8 * endurance). For them to become "more resilient" they would need an even higher multiplier. 9 or maybe even 10 would probably be appropriate.

 

 

I don't think they are going to remove the Barbarian "thick skin", they are probably going to keep it that their endurance/health damage conversation is different than the other classes once they gain the passive. The system is already in place for it.

 

That's a fair point. Maybe they will start at x5/x6, and then thick skinned will add an additional x4, or something.

[Matt516]

Regarding OP (haven't read discussion yet) : it is an interesting idea, but a very large change to the core game mechanics, and therefore probably not very likely to happen. Also, basing healing on something like experience or emeralds is basically the same as basing it on money aka camping supplies aka rest. Also, adding another resource system to govern various abilities is an unnecessary and complicating change in my opinion.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Thank you for the link. So with this system, the Health:Endurance ratio will be something like X:YX, so that they would be knocked out when XY <= 0. Am I understanding that correctly?

 

The idea is that classes with higher ratio can take more punishment on their health which will make them require less frequent resting to replenish it. The system remain unchanged beside this.

 

For example, a Barbarian might have a 100 endurance and 500 health (5 * Endurance).

 

In the first encounter, the Fighter is hit for a total 80 points of damage. His health is now down at 420.

In the second encounter, the Fighter is hit for 120 points of damage. His Health is now 300.

In the third encounter, he gets hit for 50 points of damage. Health is now 250.

In the final boss fight, he gets hit for 200 points of damage (this was boss). Health is now 50 and resting should be envisaged.

 

That just reads like code for Not Hit-Dice. This indicates a base HP value with a class-dependent modifier to create a single resource pool. That does not sound like what Mr. Sawyer describes in this quote:

 

 

...We now simply apply damage 1:1 to Stamina (Endurance) and Health, but Health is determined differently for different classes (but always through a multiplier).  Front-line characters are expected to take a lot of abuse and get combat-healed more often, so they have a superior ratio of Endurance to Health.  This will (well, actually it already does in our initial playtests) help prevent front-liners from forcing the party to rest after two fights even when the rest of the group has a lot of per rest abilities and Health left.  The ratios are very easy to tune, but most importantly, it is much, much clearer how everything works.

 

For this system to increase the longevity of melee classes, the resource which governs their mortality must be higher when applying damage at a 1:1 between them. Otherwise the character will die before they get knocked out.

 

Mortality Statistic: Knockout Statistic

1. 50:150 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 0:100. They are dead, but still fighting?

    

2. 150:50 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 100:0. They are alive, but incapacitated.

 

From the quote, it sounds like Mr. Sawyer is using Endurance as the mortality stat, while Health is the knockout stat. Whatever they call them, let's just hope that it works out like supposition #2.

[Marceror]

 

 

...We now simply apply damage 1:1 to Stamina (Endurance) and Health, but Health is determined differently for different classes (but always through a multiplier).  Front-line characters are expected to take a lot of abuse and get combat-healed more often, so they have a superior ratio of Endurance to Health.  This will (well, actually it already does in our initial playtests) help prevent front-liners from forcing the party to rest after two fights even when the rest of the group has a lot of per rest abilities and Health left.  The ratios are very easy to tune, but most importantly, it is much, much clearer how everything works.

 

For this system to increase the longevity of melee classes, the resource which governs their mortality must be higher when applying damage at a 1:1 between them. Otherwise the character will die before they get knocked out.

 

Mortality Statistic: Knockout Statistic

1. 50:150 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 0:100. They are dead, but still fighting?

    

2. 150:50 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 100:0. They are alive, but incapacitated.

 

From the quote, it sounds like Mr. Sawyer is using Endurance as the mortality stat, while Health is the knockout stat. Whatever they call them, let's just hope that it works out like supposition #2.

 

 

I'm not reading it that way at all. My understanding is that endurance/stamina is completely unchanged as a mechanic. You run out of endurance/stamina and you are knocked out.

 

Similarly, health will still be the mortality stat. It's just that you will have a lot more of it, and it will be lost at the same rate as endurance/stamina.

 

I think you're reading too much into this. The change is far less sweeping than you are thinking.

[Ark Evensong]

 

 

 

 

...We now simply apply damage 1:1 to Stamina (Endurance) and Health, but Health is determined differently for different classes (but always through a multiplier).  Front-line characters are expected to take a lot of abuse and get combat-healed more often, so they have a superior ratio of Endurance to Health.  This will (well, actually it already does in our initial playtests) help prevent front-liners from forcing the party to rest after two fights even when the rest of the group has a lot of per rest abilities and Health left.  The ratios are very easy to tune, but most importantly, it is much, much clearer how everything works.

 

For this system to increase the longevity of melee classes, the resource which governs their mortality must be higher when applying damage at a 1:1 between them. Otherwise the character will die before they get knocked out.

 

Mortality Statistic: Knockout Statistic

1. 50:150 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 0:100. They are dead, but still fighting?
    
2. 150:50 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 100:0. They are alive, but incapacitated.

 

From the quote, it sounds like Mr. Sawyer is using Endurance as the mortality stat, while Health is the knockout stat. Whatever they call them, let's just hope that it works out like supposition #2.

 

 

I'm not reading it that way at all. My understanding is that endurance/stamina is completely unchanged as a mechanic. You run out of endurance/stamina and you are knocked out.

 

Similarly, health will still be the mortality stat. It's just that you will have a lot more of it, and it will be lost at the same rate as endurance/stamina.

 

I think you're reading too much into this. The change is far less sweeping than you are thinking.

 

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're out of the fight if either Health or Stamina/Endurance drops to 0, with the chance to get back up if it's just the latter.

 

I believe another change they were planning was to make it more clear when it's the Health side of the equation that's going to drop you first. I think by a shiny line on the stamina bar once health drops below the max stamina value? (As in, stamina drops to that line, and you can't heal your stamina above it anymore?)

 

Not sure what this does to abilities that do extra damage to Health. Like, Poison and Deep Wounds ... I think those did direct damage to Health, right? Or was it just that they kept doing damage even when knocked out (Stamina = 0)? Hmmm.

 

[Edit: Top of the page, so inserting quotes.]

Edited September 12, 2014 by Ark Evensong

[Mr. Magniloquent]

 

 

...We now simply apply damage 1:1 to Stamina (Endurance) and Health, but Health is determined differently for different classes (but always through a multiplier).  Front-line characters are expected to take a lot of abuse and get combat-healed more often, so they have a superior ratio of Endurance to Health.  This will (well, actually it already does in our initial playtests) help prevent front-liners from forcing the party to rest after two fights even when the rest of the group has a lot of per rest abilities and Health left.  The ratios are very easy to tune, but most importantly, it is much, much clearer how everything works.

 

For this system to increase the longevity of melee classes, the resource which governs their mortality must be higher when applying damage at a 1:1 between them. Otherwise the character will die before they get knocked out.

 

Mortality Statistic: Knockout Statistic

1. 50:150 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 0:100. They are dead, but still fighting?

    

2. 150:50 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 100:0. They are alive, but incapacitated.

 

From the quote, it sounds like Mr. Sawyer is using Endurance as the mortality stat, while Health is the knockout stat. Whatever they call them, let's just hope that it works out like supposition #2.

 

 

I'm not reading it that way at all. My understanding is that endurance/stamina is completely unchanged as a mechanic. You run out of endurance/stamina and you are knocked out.

 

Similarly, health will still be the mortality stat. It's just that you will have a lot more of it, and it will be lost at the same rate as endurance/stamina.

 

I think you're reading too much into this. The change is far less sweeping than you are thinking.

 

 

Right now, Health:Stamina is 1:1. For every Health, you have one point of Stamina. The loss ratio is 1:4, so that every every 4 points of Stamina damage, you lose 1 health. That's ideally how the system should function. You get knocked out more easily than you are killed. The change sounds like a semantic difference. Both are Health and Stamina/Endurance are lost at the same rate, but your Health will be multiplied by a class Hit-Die; logically making your health value greater than your stamina.

 

That must be how its going to work. If they move the ratio to 1:1 without increasing health & stamina/endurance values four-fold or greater, characters will both get knocked-out less and die more quickly. That can't be right. I imagine that this change will be semantic only then.

[Marceror]

 

 

 

...We now simply apply damage 1:1 to Stamina (Endurance) and Health, but Health is determined differently for different classes (but always through a multiplier).  Front-line characters are expected to take a lot of abuse and get combat-healed more often, so they have a superior ratio of Endurance to Health.  This will (well, actually it already does in our initial playtests) help prevent front-liners from forcing the party to rest after two fights even when the rest of the group has a lot of per rest abilities and Health left.  The ratios are very easy to tune, but most importantly, it is much, much clearer how everything works.

 

For this system to increase the longevity of melee classes, the resource which governs their mortality must be higher when applying damage at a 1:1 between them. Otherwise the character will die before they get knocked out.

 

Mortality Statistic: Knockout Statistic

1. 50:150 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 0:100. They are dead, but still fighting?

    

2. 150:50 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 100:0. They are alive, but incapacitated.

 

From the quote, it sounds like Mr. Sawyer is using Endurance as the mortality stat, while Health is the knockout stat. Whatever they call them, let's just hope that it works out like supposition #2.

 

 

I'm not reading it that way at all. My understanding is that endurance/stamina is completely unchanged as a mechanic. You run out of endurance/stamina and you are knocked out.

 

Similarly, health will still be the mortality stat. It's just that you will have a lot more of it, and it will be lost at the same rate as endurance/stamina.

 

I think you're reading too much into this. The change is far less sweeping than you are thinking.

 

 

Right now, Health:Stamina is 1:1. For every Health, you have one point of Stamina. The loss ratio is 1:4, so that every every 4 points of Stamina damage, you lose 1 health. That's ideally how the system should function. You get knocked out more easily than you are killed. The change sounds like a semantic difference. Both are Health and Stamina/Endurance are lost at the same rate, but your Health will be multiplied by a class Hit-Die; logically making your health value greater than your stamina.

 

That must be how its going to work. If they move the ratio to 1:1 without increasing health & stamina/endurance values four-fold or greater, characters will both get knocked-out less and die more quickly. That can't be right. I imagine that this change will be semantic only then.

 

That's my point. It largely is a semantic difference. One of their goals is to make the system more clear, though personally it has been pretty to me from the beginning. That's what the change from 1:4 to 1:1 with a multiplier addresses.

 

The second part is to give classes more staying power. They could have just as easily stayed with the existing system and changed the ratio for fighters and paladins to 1:6, priests and druids 1:5, etc.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

...We now simply apply damage 1:1 to Stamina (Endurance) and Health, but Health is determined differently for different classes (but always through a multiplier).  Front-line characters are expected to take a lot of abuse and get combat-healed more often, so they have a superior ratio of Endurance to Health.  This will (well, actually it already does in our initial playtests) help prevent front-liners from forcing the party to rest after two fights even when the rest of the group has a lot of per rest abilities and Health left.  The ratios are very easy to tune, but most importantly, it is much, much clearer how everything works.

 

For this system to increase the longevity of melee classes, the resource which governs their mortality must be higher when applying damage at a 1:1 between them. Otherwise the character will die before they get knocked out.

 

Mortality Statistic: Knockout Statistic

1. 50:150 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 0:100. They are dead, but still fighting?

    

2. 150:50 - Character takes 50 damage, distributed at a 1:1 ratio. Character's statistics are now 100:0. They are alive, but incapacitated.

 

From the quote, it sounds like Mr. Sawyer is using Endurance as the mortality stat, while Health is the knockout stat. Whatever they call them, let's just hope that it works out like supposition #2.

 

 

I'm not reading it that way at all. My understanding is that endurance/stamina is completely unchanged as a mechanic. You run out of endurance/stamina and you are knocked out.

 

Similarly, health will still be the mortality stat. It's just that you will have a lot more of it, and it will be lost at the same rate as endurance/stamina.

 

I think you're reading too much into this. The change is far less sweeping than you are thinking.

 

 

Right now, Health:Stamina is 1:1. For every Health, you have one point of Stamina. The loss ratio is 1:4, so that every every 4 points of Stamina damage, you lose 1 health. That's ideally how the system should function. You get knocked out more easily than you are killed. The change sounds like a semantic difference. Both are Health and Stamina/Endurance are lost at the same rate, but your Health will be multiplied by a class Hit-Die; logically making your health value greater than your stamina.

 

That must be how its going to work. If they move the ratio to 1:1 without increasing health & stamina/endurance values four-fold or greater, characters will both get knocked-out less and die more quickly. That can't be right. I imagine that this change will be semantic only then.

 

That's my point. It largely is a semantic difference. One of their goals is to make the system more clear, though personally it has been pretty to me from the beginning. That's what the change from 1:4 to 1:1 with a multiplier addresses.

 

The second part is to give classes more staying power. They could have just as easily stayed with the existing system and changed the ratio for fighters and paladins to 1:6, priests and druids 1:5, etc.

 

 

I would say that is what they plan to do.

 

So if character has now 100 health and stamina points, they will have in new system 100 endurance points, but number of their health points rises to at least 400 but probably higher especially if they belong one of the front line classes.

 

Also damage changes from current system where 100 stamina damage does 25 health damage, to system where 100 endurance damage does 100 health damage.

[Marceror]

 

 

I would say that is what they plan to do.

 

So if character has now 100 health and stamina points, they will have in new system 100 endurance points, but number of their health points rises to at least 400 but probably higher especially if they belong one of the front line classes.

 

Also damage changes from current system where 100 stamina damage does 25 health damage, to system where 100 endurance damage does 100 health damage.

 

Yep.

[Matt516]

 

Not sure what this does to abilities that do extra damage to Health. Like, Poison and Deep Wounds ... I think those did direct damage to Health, right? Or was it just that they kept doing damage even when knocked out (Stamina = 0)? Hmmm.

 

They'd probably just do more damage to Health. Pretty much anything from the old system can be tweaked into the new system with a simple multiplier.

[Ark Evensong]

Sure, but then you're breaking the 1:1 damage ratio again. Not sure if that'll help with the new system being clearer.

Not that I really have problems with either 1:1 MaxHealth:MaxStamina or 1:1 HealthDamage:StaminaDamage, but having at least one of these constant would be good, I think.

 

I'm toying with another idea, though, which might be easier to present to players, while functionally being pretty much the same :

 

Switch "Health" to a "Restoration Pool" - getting damaged doesn't drain your green bar, being healed does. 

 

(And let's call Stamina/Endurance "Hit Points",  - they're exactly the same, so it's not because it makes more sense, but this post would get (more) confusing otherwise. Also, "Restoration Pool" is a dumb name, but can be abbreviated easily.)

 

Keep the values they're implementing for now. 4 Health:1 Endurance -> 4 RP:1 HP (... or uh, 3 RP:1 HP, actually. Health(-1):Endurance) Healing is done on a 1:1 scale. In or out of combat, doesn't matter.

Run out of HP? You're knocked out.

Run out of RP? You're still standing, but no more healing for you.

Run out of HP with an empty RP bar? You're goners.

 

There are some edge cases, though. Health:Endurance can easily support "knock-out gas", Endurance damage without affecting Health. This one? Not so easily. (But I think the "Restoration Pool" would handle the converse better. Special attacks that also affect another bar would stand out more than special attacks that affect one bar more than usually.)

When and how to implement Maimed status might need some rethinking as well. Can't have that occur on 0 RP, because it doesn't make sense to have maimed status be triggered by a healing action.

 

Hmm.

[frapillo80]

Right now the main health problem of Fighters seems to come from attrition damage (i.e. grazes) that is covered in real time by stamina recovery in conbat, so that the fighter is not knocked out and thus keeps losing health but not stamina (in practice).

 

Since Fighters in Obsidian's concept should be able to shrugh off this kind of attrition, what about giving them an ability (or make it a selectable talent) so that grazes affect stamina (thus still being a tactical challenge) but not health?

 

It would be different from Barbarians' iron-skin, and reduce the need for extra rest because of worn out fighters.

[Lychnidos]

Right now the main health problem of Fighters seems to come from attrition damage (i.e. grazes) that is covered in real time by stamina recovery in conbat, so that the fighter is not knocked out and thus keeps losing health but not stamina (in practice).

 

Since Fighters in Obsidian's concept should be able to shrugh off this kind of attrition, what about giving them an ability (or make it a selectable talent) so that grazes affect stamina (thus still being a tactical challenge) but not health?

 

It would be different from Barbarians' iron-skin, and reduce the need for extra rest because of worn out fighters.

 

That's an interesting suggestion, though I would prefer it to be a talent. How much of the damage received is from grazes compared to other hits?

[frapillo80]

I think it's 50% less damage. My reasoning was that Fighters, having usually higher deflection, would suffer in proportion to other classes more grazes than hits or criticals, and having them shrugging off grazes' health damage (but not stamina damage) would help with having to rest too often. Didn't do any maths though, I could very well be wrong.

 

It could be something like "Resilience: the Fighter has learnt to shrug off the long term effect of lesser hits".

 

Just a thought.