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Chilloutman

Defence/Deflection rating for weapons

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Hello all,

 

After playing few hours of beta I find out that weapons doesnt add to deflection rating. It seems strange as for sure one defend himself much better with weapon than with bare hands. I think that Obs should think about adding deflection rating to weapons as well. I think that best deflection should have swords, then reach weapons and on other end should be axes and maces. Of course it should not affect damage threshold

 

Good idea? Bad Idea? discuss

Edited by Chilloutman
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I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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The idea itself is probably good. You are right, armed with the sword you have better chances to deflect incoming sword blow than with your bare hands. But this will complicate the things that is already complicated enough, on the other hand, I'm not sure if this will add something valuable to gameplay.

 

Edit:

Something like that I've seen in Drakensang: The Dark Eye, rising you weapon skills you could select where to add the points - offense or defense. However personally I never put them to defense line.

Edited by konst3d
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The idea itself is probably good. You are right, armed with the sword you have better chances to deflect incoming sword blow than with your bare hands. But this will complicate the things that is already complicated enough, on the other hand, I'm not sure if this will add something valuable to gameplay.

 

Well it will add more depth and it would add another factor in decision what weapon to pick, if you want more damage with axe or better protection with sword for example


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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I think that your deflection with the weapon more depends on your training and personal preferences then on weapon type.

And *IF* something like this will be in the game I would prefer the Drakensang way - leveling your character select what to rise, offensive mastery or defensive, or both.

BTW, there were some weapons with defense bonuses\penalties. But most of the weapons didn't provided any defense modifications.

And once again, I'm not sure that PoE needs all these things. Just my opinion.

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I'd like to see a melee weapon get a small deflection bonus, but only against weapons that are one speed rating slower.

 

For most weapons it should average out to about the same, so no there would be no net benefit and the deflection doesn't need to be adjusted. Only if you have a weapon that is slightly less hefty but faster, would your parrying improve.


"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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Hatchets give a Deflection bonus against the person you're attacking.

Edited by Sensuki

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The bug with hatchets has been fixed for the next build.  They are Fast weapons.

 

Cool thanks.

 

I may end up using a hatchet in the off hand....

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It is certainly true that having a weapon to deflect hits with is more effective than being unarmed and attempting to deflect weapons, although the difference may not be noticable in some cases (unarmed or knife versus arrow doesn't matter, to use an extreme example).

 

I believe that the best way to model that would be to have some manner of skill -- be it the general weapon skill or a separate one -- give a bonus to deflection based on or modified by the type of weapon used and the type of weapon it is being used against. A knife, for example, is never going to be very effective at blocking a longsword or halberd, and a great deal of that is down to training and skill.

 

That would be rather complicated, however, so all in all I do think that leaving the weapon mostly out of defense is reasonable in a game. As a simplier solution, I believe that MERP/RM's solution of parrying with a portion of the offensive bonus while still being able to use whatever may be left of it to attack is the most reasonable I've yet come across, as it does leave it as a tactical choice while effectively also basing it on the skill of the warrior in question, as more skilled people can get away with parrying more while still attacking effectively.


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Adding a general deflection bonus based on weapon type steps dangerously close to the sort of simulationism that seems intuitively realistic, but actually has little or nothing to do with reality, and has even less to do with a universe where people punch holes in metal.

 

To be clear: if you want "realistic" deflection bonuses, you'd make polearms and the two-handed sword the supreme defensive weapons, because they were.

Edited by gkathellar

If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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Adding a general deflection bonus based on weapon type steps dangerously close to the sort of simulationism that seems intuitively realistic, but actually has little or nothing to do with reality, and has even less to do with a universe where people punch holes in metal.

 

To be clear: if you want "realistic" deflection bonuses, you'd make polearms and the two-handed sword the supreme defensive weapons, because they were.

 

I am not opposed to it, Not everything have to be super realistic but this one stretched my mind. And reason for it is taht its only way we could actually raise deflections. Or is there another way in game? Defensive stats are quite mystery for me so far. I know that armor provide DT but chance to be hit is something different.


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Right now IIRC, Deflection is based on class, shield, and various miscellaneous abilities. Attributes factoring in would probably be a better approach than adding bonuses to weapons based on supposed realism.


If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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Right now IIRC, Deflection is based on class, shield, and various miscellaneous abilities. Attributes factoring in would probably be a better approach than adding bonuses to weapons based on supposed realism.

 

Go bare hands agains sword wielding guy and then talk about 'supposed realism' :)


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Right now IIRC, Deflection is based on class, shield, and various miscellaneous abilities. Attributes factoring in would probably be a better approach than adding bonuses to weapons based on supposed realism.

 

Go bare hands agains sword wielding guy and then talk about 'supposed realism' :)

 

If I could punch through metal, as monks in PoE can, I would totally do that.

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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Right now IIRC, Deflection is based on class, shield, and various miscellaneous abilities. Attributes factoring in would probably be a better approach than adding bonuses to weapons based on supposed realism.

 

Go bare hands agains sword wielding guy and then talk about 'supposed realism' :)

 

If I could punch through metal, as monks in PoE can, I would totally do that.

 

 

Sure if you wield magic


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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