Conversation confusion

[PrimeHydra]

When I initiate dialog with an NPC, whose stats determine the conversation options? The protagonist's? If so, why doesn't the protagonist always approach the NPC? In the IE games, the selected character would initiate conversation; if more than one character was selected, the "leader" (topmost portrait) would engage. The character who initiated dialog determined the context of conversation.

 

It might be more intuitive if the protagonist always initiated dialog OR if you could pick a character to speak with and have their stats determine dialog options (not recommended, since this way you'd feel obligated to build a party with one maxed stat each to unlock all options).

Edited September 8, 2014 by PrimeHydra

[vril]

Apparently it is the first slot character that stats determine conversation options.  A little odd as you say, you can select any of your party members and have them be the one that starts dialog with the NPC.  Additionally, a little oddity with that system is, the main character should be built for conversations in this case so you would probably take 'Lore' skill on your main PC but a skill like mechanics, you can delegate to one of your companions because you use them to lockpick or find traps.

[Ink Blot]

Yep, it's the main's abilities and skill values that are used in convos with NPCs, no matter who in the party actually approaches and initiates the dialog.

[Kjaamor]

I actually like this feature, but it irons out some of the concerns I had with the IE games where the party "talker" would be dragged around out of formation or forced to speak to foes toe-to-toe when it clearly was not in their strategic interest.

 

I am willing to make excuses to keep immersion for the sake of the gameplay aspect.

[wanderon]

I agree that having the PC conduct the conversation (using his skill, factions, reputation, etc) while allowing another character to run over to start the ball rolling is better than dragging the PC toe to toe to whomever he is talking to (from a strategy standpoint).

 

I also seem to recall that in the finished game your companions (not adventurers) may have something to offer during the conversation as well but the details of how this may occur has not been laid out AFAIK.

[PrimeHydra]

I agree that the PC should be the one whose stats determine the conversation options. The problem is that the design doesn't make this clear; those of us who've played lots of IE games won't be aware that it's the main character, not the character who walked over and started the conversation, who's actually speaking.

[wanderon]

Perhaps that could be rectified by simply adding the Pcs name to the dialoge tree? (I assume the companions will be identified by name when they choose to chime in already - otherwise how would we know who is speaking) This may already be the plan and just not implemented in the beta? 

[Sensuki]

Wasn't aware that wasn't already the case.

[IndiraLightfoot]

It isn't. Good points, everybody!

[Arsene Lupin]

As long as the PC's portrait/name appears in the dialog interface I don't really see a problem. From a roleplaying perspective I hate it when party members can interact in conversations (why is Jaheira suddenly speaking with Charname's voice?!).

 

I can see how this might compel some gamers to focus on focusing solely on conversations bolstering stat for the PC, but the same temptation would exist if any party member could speak, too, right? Those players would just focus on specializing each party member toward a specific dialog advantage--IE one party member who can charm anyone, one who can intimidate anyone, etc., etc.

 

Personally, I prefer only being able to manipulate dialog stats (or only need I g to) for the one PC. That way I only have to troleplay one PC instead of six.

[wanderon]

As long as the PC's portrait/name appears in the dialog interface I don't really see a problem. From a roleplaying perspective I hate it when party members can interact in conversations (why is Jaheira suddenly speaking with Charname's voice?!).

 

I can see how this might compel some gamers to focus on focusing solely on conversations bolstering stat for the PC, but the same temptation would exist if any party member could speak, too, right? Those players would just focus on specializing each party member toward a specific dialog advantage--IE one party member who can charm anyone, one who can intimidate anyone, etc., etc.

 

Personally, I prefer only being able to manipulate dialog stats (or only need I g to) for the one PC. That way I only have to troleplay one PC instead of s

 

 

AFAIK it's only the premade companions who may occasionally interject if/when something being discussed is especially important to them (perhaps important enough to make them stay or leave depending on the conversation choice being made). So I don't think you are going to have any control on what they have to say or manipulating their stats to accomplish X or Y.

 

Not sure I understand the part about Jahiera speaking with Charnames voice either - she has her own voice if when she adds her two cents??

[Arsene Lupin]

In BG2 (and other games) party members can initiate dialog and "act" in conversations, but their dialog--and dialog options--are the exact same. IE its dialog written for Char name, but being spoken (by accident) by a party member.

 

So you occasionally have instances where there's a conversation between NPC A and Char name, only Jaheira is speaking Charname's lines--which can obviously result I out of character dialog.

[wanderon]

In BG2 (and other games) party members can initiate dialog and "act" in conversations, but their dialog--and dialog options--are the exact same. IE its dialog written for Char name, but being spoken (by accident) by a party member.

 

So you occasionally have instances where there's a conversation between NPC A and Char name, only Jaheira is speaking Charname's lines--which can obviously result I out of character dialog.

 

So you are talking about dialoge that is actually NOT spoken (but read by the gamer)?

[Infinitron]

O_o I don't see what's so unclear about Arsene's post, wanderon.

 

In Baldur's Gate, any character in your party could initiate dialogue and have conversations, but the dialogue was written with the assumption that the main character, the Bhaalspawn, was doing all the talking.

 

Somewhere on the Internet there's a post by David Gaider who is shocked to learn that Imoen, Minsc and the rest could initiate conversations. Apparently he had no idea.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Infinitron

[Arsene Lupin]

The verb "to speak" in English refers to the production of language in general, be it voiced aloud or written as text.

 

And, FYI, almost all of the speech I the old Infinity Engine games was conveyed solely by text.

 

If there's anything in my posts that still confuses, let me know and I'll try to elucidate later... When I have access to a physical keyboard.

[wanderon]

I played about a gazillion hours of the IE games and this never bothered me even to the point of determining (deciding?) that the lines were written for charname and no one else should "utter" them - to my mind they were just lines written for whomever was speaking...

[Arsene Lupin]

They're not, though. They're written specifically in the "voice" of Charname, and are written from his/her perspective. Granted, in most cases the identity of the speaker didn't matter because the dialog was fairly generic--but there were still instances where you could have Minsc talking about being a Bhaalspawn, or Viconia reminiscing about growing up in Candlekeep, things like that.

[CatatonicMan]

Additionally, a little oddity with that system is, the main character should be built for conversations in this case so you would probably take 'Lore' skill on your main PC but a skill like mechanics, you can delegate to one of your companions because you use them to lockpick or find traps.

 

That only works under the assumption that a skill like mechanics will be useless in conversations. If OE is doing it right, all skills will end up having an impact on conversation options.

[wanderon]

 

Additionally, a little oddity with that system is, the main character should be built for conversations in this case so you would probably take 'Lore' skill on your main PC but a skill like mechanics, you can delegate to one of your companions because you use them to lockpick or find traps.

 

That only works under the assumption that a skill like mechanics will be useless in conversations. If OE is doing it right, all skills will end up having an impact on conversation options.

 

 

I believe all the skills are supposed to have opportunities to be used in conversations - how this occurs is mentioned in the skill descriptions