Are liberal democracies finished?

[Tsuga C]

Well, here's another group interested in exterminating all liberal democracies or republics. A belief in nothing will not stand one in good stead against those with a firm belief in something.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Anybody trying to convince you that The End is Nigh is trying to sell you something.  (Nothing pushes sales or votes quite like panicky fear does!)

Yes, what could go wrong with an out of control, lawless government? Well, let's look at a country slightly ahead of us on the curve: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11059138/Rotherham-In-the-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

[Hurlshort]

 

Anybody trying to convince you that The End is Nigh is trying to sell you something.  (Nothing pushes sales or votes quite like panicky fear does!)

Yes, what could go wrong with an out of control, lawless government? Well, let's look at a country slightly ahead of us on the curve: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11059138/Rotherham-In-the-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

 

 

 

That's a terrible story, but you understand that we can point to terrible situations like that in both the US and the UK throughout history, right?  Sex trafficking has existed for centuries, cults, serial killers, etc.  We had slavery, we had segregation, we've had lynch mobs and riots.  But we also have modern statistics that show crime falling, we have better technology and responses to bad situations, and we have a society which is much more open and tolerant.  So you've got a long way to go if you want to make the end is nigh argument, because our history ain't all that peachy and we are still chuggin' along. 

[BruceVC]

 

Anybody trying to convince you that The End is Nigh is trying to sell you something.  (Nothing pushes sales or votes quite like panicky fear does!)

Yes, what could go wrong with an out of control, lawless government? Well, let's look at a country slightly ahead of us on the curve: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11059138/Rotherham-In-the-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

 

 

Also this post doesn't support a view that the "end is nigh "

 

Its an appalling story but to me it  just highlights a systemic failure of certain child protection institutions in the UK and a harsh reality check that sometimes cultural sensitivities can be flawed. Because one of the reasons the abuse was able to go on for so long was a concern that the Pakistani community in this area would see an investigation as a personal attack on them.

 

But the fact that we now know about it and people were prosecuted is a good thing

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

 

Anybody trying to convince you that The End is Nigh is trying to sell you something.  (Nothing pushes sales or votes quite like panicky fear does!)

Yes, what could go wrong with an out of control, lawless government? Well, let's look at a country slightly ahead of us on the curve: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11059138/Rotherham-In-the-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

 

 

 

That's a terrible story, but you understand that we can point to terrible situations like that in both the US and the UK throughout history, right?  Sex trafficking has existed for centuries, cults, serial killers, etc.  We had slavery, we had segregation, we've had lynch mobs and riots.  But we also have modern statistics that show crime falling, we have better technology and responses to bad situations, and we have a society which is much more open and tolerant.  So you've got a long way to go if you want to make the end is nigh argument, because our history ain't all that peachy and we are still chuggin' along.

 

You seem to miss one crucial point. The government and the police knew about it and did nothing! Also our own government (unintentionally but in a similar illegal way) enables human trafficking by maintaining open borders.

[Longknife]

Wut? Dyou really belive in such nonsence? Even western media laugh about your democratic fairy world.

 

 

OH MAN

 

1) I'm assuming you're Russian. With all due respect, I know dozens of russians both as friends and through work (teaching english) and yet I know NOTHING of your politics. Why? Because I've yet to find a russian active in politics who actually pays attention. I'm highly curious when it comes to cultures and always ask these types of questions, but every Russian responds to questions about politics with "I don't pay attention cause it's all rigged and doesn't matter," "Putin's ok I guess" or "Putin is hot" from the younger women. Please, by no means is the west perfect or innocent of lying itself, but I have a very hard time hearing such a bold claim from a russian when - in my experience - it seems glaringly obvious the fox is guarding the hen house over there and half the population is none the wiser. I would love to hear some political explanations for why Russia's current system and manner of doing things allegedly works whereas democracy doesn't. And no not "I have an article by a fringe opinion supporting that idea!" I mean actual logical step-by-step arguments.

 

2) It would be exceedingly easy to take a photo of any run-down house in Russia and apply bleak-looking filters on it and say "look Russia is collapsing." Likewise you can find anti-ANYTHING arguments in any country. Your very own Ayn Rand is an example of a counter-culture to communism, and yes the USA for example does house counter-cultures to democracy and capitalism. Their existence doesn't signify utter doom impending, it's natural for counter-cultures to exist whenever the culture fails someone, which is inevitable.

 

 

3) You realize that not only do you have to consider admittedly corrupted democracies such as that in the USA, but peaceful ones functioning perfectly in countries such as Sweden, Denmark and Canada? It's very naive to claim liberal democracies are on the brink of self-destruction when the most peaceful and happy countries in the world just so happen to be liberal democracies.

 

 

 

 

I'm all for critical discussion and constructive debate, but your statements wreak of blind patriotism that's too loyal to see the world around you for what it is. Trust me, I know DAMNED well there's flaws to the USA and other western democracies, but I'm realistic about their flaws. I don't go screaming about how they're about to implode when the reality is they need to shape up a bit, but it seems hysterical reports constantly leave the mouths of the russians. FFS, I remember about 4 years ago some Russian guy posted some claim that the United States was "ON THE BRINK OF ANOTHER CIVIL WAR AND DISSOLVING FULLY" and even had little sections divided up and a long BS theory about how it'd split and why, and how the Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, West Coast etc would all break down and form smaller countries. Of course it all turned out to be horse **** and sensationalist hooey that's on par with a guy who spends all day writing Spiderman Fanfiction (no offense intended to Spiderman fanfic writers, I merely mean your work is by no means srs bsns, nor is that guy's "work").

  Please, for the love of God, learn to recognize flaws and strengths objectively. I actually like when Russia and the USA criticize each other because both usually offer very valid criticisms of each other, but this? This isn't one such case. This is problems in democracy being at about a 4 being treated as though they were at a 10.

[Guard Dog]

 

Wut? Dyou really belive in such nonsence? Even western media laugh about your democratic fairy world.

 

 

OH MAN

 

1) I'm assuming you're Russian. With all due respect, I know dozens of russians both as friends and through work (teaching english) and yet I know NOTHING of your politics. Why? Because I've yet to find a russian active in politics who actually pays attention. I'm highly curious when it comes to cultures and always ask these types of questions, but every Russian responds to questions about politics with "I don't pay attention cause it's all rigged and doesn't matter," "Putin's ok I guess" or "Putin is hot" from the younger women. Please, by no means is the west perfect or innocent of lying itself, but I have a very hard time hearing such a bold claim from a russian when - in my experience - it seems glaringly obvious the fox is guarding the hen house over there and half the population is none the wiser. I would love to hear some political explanations for why Russia's current system and manner of doing things allegedly works whereas democracy doesn't. And no not "I have an article by a fringe opinion supporting that idea!" I mean actual logical step-by-step arguments.

 

2) It would be exceedingly easy to take a photo of any run-down house in Russia and apply bleak-looking filters on it and say "look Russia is collapsing." Likewise you can find anti-ANYTHING arguments in any country. Your very own Ayn Rand is an example of a counter-culture to communism, and yes the USA for example does house counter-cultures to democracy and capitalism. Their existence doesn't signify utter doom impending, it's natural for counter-cultures to exist whenever the culture fails someone, which is inevitable.

 

 

3) You realize that not only do you have to consider admittedly corrupted democracies such as that in the USA, but peaceful ones functioning perfectly in countries such as Sweden, Denmark and Canada? It's very naive to claim liberal democracies are on the brink of self-destruction when the most peaceful and happy countries in the world just so happen to be liberal democracies.

 

 

 

 

I'm all for critical discussion and constructive debate, but your statements wreak of blind patriotism that's too loyal to see the world around you for what it is. Trust me, I know DAMNED well there's flaws to the USA and other western democracies, but I'm realistic about their flaws. I don't go screaming about how they're about to implode when the reality is they need to shape up a bit, but it seems hysterical reports constantly leave the mouths of the russians. FFS, I remember about 4 years ago some Russian guy posted some claim that the United States was "ON THE BRINK OF ANOTHER CIVIL WAR AND DISSOLVING FULLY" and even had little sections divided up and a long BS theory about how it'd split and why, and how the Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, West Coast etc would all break down and form smaller countries. Of course it all turned out to be horse **** and sensationalist hooey that's on par with a guy who spends all day writing Spiderman Fanfiction (no offense intended to Spiderman fanfic writers, I merely mean your work is by no means srs bsns, nor is that guy's "work").

  Please, for the love of God, learn to recognize flaws and strengths objectively. I actually like when Russia and the USA criticize each other because both usually offer very valid criticisms of each other, but this? This isn't one such case. This is problems in democracy being at about a 4 being treated as though they were at a 10.

 

Ok, I'm going to assume you don't know Oby and just throw this out there. The time you spent writing this would have been better spent killing fire ants one by one with a pair of tweezers. He won't listen to anything you say and any response you get will only be intended to provoke you. Don't get me wrong we all love Oby here but he's sort of like the crazy uncle at the family reunion. Sometimes it's best just laugh at what he says and otherwise leave him alone. Just sayin'.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Guard Dog

[BruceVC]

 

 

Wut? Dyou really belive in such nonsence? Even western media laugh about your democratic fairy world.

 

 

OH MAN

 

1) I'm assuming you're Russian. With all due respect, I know dozens of russians both as friends and through work (teaching english) and yet I know NOTHING of your politics. Why? Because I've yet to find a russian active in politics who actually pays attention. I'm highly curious when it comes to cultures and always ask these types of questions, but every Russian responds to questions about politics with "I don't pay attention cause it's all rigged and doesn't matter," "Putin's ok I guess" or "Putin is hot" from the younger women. Please, by no means is the west perfect or innocent of lying itself, but I have a very hard time hearing such a bold claim from a russian when - in my experience - it seems glaringly obvious the fox is guarding the hen house over there and half the population is none the wiser. I would love to hear some political explanations for why Russia's current system and manner of doing things allegedly works whereas democracy doesn't. And no not "I have an article by a fringe opinion supporting that idea!" I mean actual logical step-by-step arguments.

 

2) It would be exceedingly easy to take a photo of any run-down house in Russia and apply bleak-looking filters on it and say "look Russia is collapsing." Likewise you can find anti-ANYTHING arguments in any country. Your very own Ayn Rand is an example of a counter-culture to communism, and yes the USA for example does house counter-cultures to democracy and capitalism. Their existence doesn't signify utter doom impending, it's natural for counter-cultures to exist whenever the culture fails someone, which is inevitable.

 

 

3) You realize that not only do you have to consider admittedly corrupted democracies such as that in the USA, but peaceful ones functioning perfectly in countries such as Sweden, Denmark and Canada? It's very naive to claim liberal democracies are on the brink of self-destruction when the most peaceful and happy countries in the world just so happen to be liberal democracies.

 

 

 

 

I'm all for critical discussion and constructive debate, but your statements wreak of blind patriotism that's too loyal to see the world around you for what it is. Trust me, I know DAMNED well there's flaws to the USA and other western democracies, but I'm realistic about their flaws. I don't go screaming about how they're about to implode when the reality is they need to shape up a bit, but it seems hysterical reports constantly leave the mouths of the russians. FFS, I remember about 4 years ago some Russian guy posted some claim that the United States was "ON THE BRINK OF ANOTHER CIVIL WAR AND DISSOLVING FULLY" and even had little sections divided up and a long BS theory about how it'd split and why, and how the Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, West Coast etc would all break down and form smaller countries. Of course it all turned out to be horse **** and sensationalist hooey that's on par with a guy who spends all day writing Spiderman Fanfiction (no offense intended to Spiderman fanfic writers, I merely mean your work is by no means srs bsns, nor is that guy's "work").

  Please, for the love of God, learn to recognize flaws and strengths objectively. I actually like when Russia and the USA criticize each other because both usually offer very valid criticisms of each other, but this? This isn't one such case. This is problems in democracy being at about a 4 being treated as though they were at a 10.

 

Ok, I'm going to assume you don't know Oby and just throw this out there. The time you spent writing this would have been better spent killing fire ants one by one with a pair of tweezers. He won't listen to anything you say and any response you get will only be intended to provoke you. Don't get me wrong we all love Oby here but he's sort of like the crazy uncle at the family reunion. Sometimes it's best just laugh at what he says and otherwise leave him alone. Just sayin'.

 

 

 

" killing fire ants one by one with a pair of tweezers"

 

That's a good one, I have never that one before. Is that a local Tennessee saying?