So DA:I will have stronghold and crafting too

[Infiltrator_SF]

"However, I find it really annoying how Bioware for some reason overhauls everything when they make new game, new aesthetics, new gameplay, writing changes and even retcons if you take a notice... All ME and DA games are so darn different from each other that its just annoying how they seem to be inable to keep things at least somewhat consistent."

 

Well, people have been around for a long time would tell you that BIO used to be blasted for their games all being the 'same' and for never changing. Now the new kids are whining that they change things.

 

L0L The internet.

 

 

"To me, Bethesda is actually ahead of BioWare in RPG terms recently"

 

Bethesda has always, is, and always will be crap. They have NEVER made a RPG worthy of even a 5. The worst RPG company of all time. I'll even take Twitcher series over them. Or *shudder* ME3 or Lionheart.

 

What bioware used to do and what bioware does now has nothing to do with what people used to blast them for. 

 

I'm one of the old-schoolers, and, of course Bioware will do things differently given the numerous, and legitimate accusations on the account of DA2/ME3. 

 

The only reason DA:O turned out good was because that game was a very, very long time in the making. EA still screwed up the DLC (a merchant offering you DLC in your camp, just shows how much they are keen on selling it), but overall I was plesantly surprised.

 

I tried the ARGHHHH version before buying DA2. And boy was I glad I didn't buy it, they ruined everything that made DA:O good. But that makes sense because DA:O wasn't really a game catering to the masses, which is a big, big no-no when it comes to EA. Need to make that game retard proof right? Inbred rednecks have to beat it on normal otherwise it's too complicated. Don't forget blatant dungeon recycling, superficial "romances" and "fast-paced", "visceral" combat! How about some of that gay sex? Don't mind if I do, and get ready for DA3's "fully gay" (actual quote) character. It would be sad if it wasn't so hilarious.

 

So yeah, what's left of Bioware is nothing, they're just a husk about to crumble beneath EAs gargantuan ****, after witch they'll promptly jump on the next studio and drive it into the ****ing ground like they did with the previous ones.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Infiltrator_SF

[Namutree]

 

"However, I find it really annoying how Bioware for some reason overhauls everything when they make new game, new aesthetics, new gameplay, writing changes and even retcons if you take a notice... All ME and DA games are so darn different from each other that its just annoying how they seem to be inable to keep things at least somewhat consistent."

 

Well, people have been around for a long time would tell you that BIO used to be blasted for their games all being the 'same' and for never changing. Now the new kids are whining that they change things.

 

L0L The internet.

 

 

"To me, Bethesda is actually ahead of BioWare in RPG terms recently"

 

Bethesda has always, is, and always will be crap. They have NEVER made a RPG worthy of even a 5. The worst RPG company of all time. I'll even take Twitcher series over them. Or *shudder* ME3 or Lionheart.

 

What bioware used to do and what bioware does now has nothing to do with what people used to blast them for. 

 

I'm one of the old-schoolers, and, of course Bioware will do things differently given the numerous, and legitimate accusations on the account of DA2/ME3. 

 

The only reason DA:O turned out good was because that game was a very, very long time in the making. EA still screwed up the DLC (a merchant offering you DLC in your camp, just shows how much they are keen on selling it), but overall I was plesantly surprised.

 

I tried the ARGHHHH version before buying DA2. And boy was I glad I didn't buy it, they ruined everything that made DA:O good. But that makes sense because DA:O wasn't really a game catering to the masses, which is a big, big no-no when it comes to EA. Need to make that game retard proof right? Inbred rednecks have to beat it on normal otherwise it's too complicated. Don't forget blatant dungeon recycling, superficial "romances" and "fast-paced", "visceral" combat! How about some of that gay sex? Don't mind if I do, and get ready for DA3's "fully gay" (actual quote) character. It would be sad if it wasn't so hilarious.

 

So yeah, what's left of Bioware is nothing, they're just a husk about to crumble beneath EAs gargantuan ****, after witch they'll promptly jump on the next studio and drive it into the ****ing ground like they did with the previous ones.

 

I think you blame EA far too much. The truth is, Bioware WANTED to become what they are. Bioware deserves 100% of the blame. To act as if EA is even partially responsible is to cut the real culprits slack. 

[Namutree]

 

The greatest irony of it all is Greg Zeschuk is extremely wealthy and doesn't worry about a peon like you.

 

How is that ironic? Stun didn't say Greg Zeschuk was poor or anything.

[Namutree]

 

"To me, Bethesda is actually ahead of BioWare in RPG terms recently"

 

Bethesda has always, is, and always will be crap. They have NEVER made a RPG worthy of even a 5. The worst RPG company of all time. I'll even take Twitcher series over them. Or *shudder* ME3 or Lionheart.

In terms of role-playing Bethesda has certainly been beating Bioware. You don't like Bethesda games? Fair enough, but that doesn't mean that the previous statement was untrue.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Namutree

[Stun]

 

The greatest irony of it all is Greg Zeschuk is extremely wealthy and doesn't worry about a peon like you.

How is that ironic? Stun didn't say Greg Zeschuk was poor or anything.

 

I didn't even say that I disliked him. To the complete contrary. I admire him. A lot. Any high level corporate executive who's resignation letter basically says: "I'm quitting my job so that I can pursue my greatest hobby: Getting drunk", deserves everyone's admiration.

[redneckdevil]

"However, I find it really annoying how Bioware for some reason overhauls everything when they make new game, new aesthetics, new gameplay, writing changes and even retcons if you take a notice... All ME and DA games are so darn different from each other that its just annoying how they seem to be inable to keep things at least somewhat consistent."

 

Well, people have been around for a long time would tell you that BIO used to be blasted for their games all being the 'same' and for never changing. Now the new kids are whining that they change things.

 

L0L The internet.

 

 

"To me, Bethesda is actually ahead of BioWare in RPG terms recently"

 

Bethesda has always, is, and always will be crap. They have NEVER made a RPG worthy of even a 5. The worst RPG company of all time. I'll even take Twitcher series over them. Or *shudder* ME3 or Lionheart.

Tbh if its a sequal to a game, i want it the same with added features. Meaning i expected to see the same control features from da:o in da2...i didnt. I do expect different controls and etc in non sequals such as between da:o and baldurs gate.

Bethesda does something that i hate is that they chop away their system. Each game its like they are trying to create a painting with the same style but with less paint and materials. Morrowind struck a nice cord in how their system played though it had faults, it did have some very nice gems.

 

And bethesda HAS made a good rpg and its the one i listed. Very nice atmosphere and u can actual feel the culture as ur playing not to mention the villian (misunderstood hero) and good guys (depraved power hungry back stabbing villians) arc going on.

[Lephys]

I actually liked the sheer functionality changes to DA2. Same with Mass Effect. 2 played better (aiming and using abilities, etc.). And then 3 did the same.

 

But, it's like every time Bioware improves one thing, they feel the need to botch something else.

 

Square Enix does the same thing. The Last Remnant... it was one of their "Hmmm, let's just experiment here while we're not making a Final Fantasy game...", and like half of that game was awesome. But then the other half was all "WHY didn't you just do what you did in other games?"

 

I don't understand it. It's like the fundamental concepts are lost to them. "CHANGE ALL THE THINGS!"

[Namutree]

I'm not against Bioware making games that are different. However, if you want a new game design philosophy; make a new IP. Because DA2 was so different from DA:O, we never got an actual sequel. DA2 should have been a new IP all together.

[Stun]

I actually liked the sheer functionality changes to DA2.

Yeah, the functionality changes. They're great. Such as...your character is now voiced, so you're no longer forced to read the crap writing. Oh, and your Dog is now an activated ability, so you don't have to manage his tactics and gear anymore. And lets not forget: You have a default weapon now. It's grafted to your body, so never again will you be unarmed! Nor can you ever miss with your weapon....the aiming minigame has been removed to give us all a more 'functional experience'.

 

And my personal favorite functionality change: They've decided to reuse the game's ONE CAVE. 74 times. This brilliant improvement to functionality insures smooth exploration. Never will you get lost, or disoriented, or anything like that. By act 3, that cave will feel just as comfortably familiar as your bathroom.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Stun

[nzmccorm]

 

 

The greatest irony of it all is Greg Zeschuk is extremely wealthy and doesn't worry about a peon like you.

 

How is that ironic? Stun didn't say Greg Zeschuk was poor or anything.

 

Because more money = better than, I guess?

 

Because huge hyper-cautious corporations and people who deliberately choose to be as successful as possible in said corporations make the best decisions when it comes to fringe genres like role-playing games. Obviously.

[Lephys]

Yeah, the functionality changes. They're great. Such as...your character is now voiced, so you're no longer forced to read the crap writing. Oh, and your Dog is now an activated ability, so you don't have to manage his tactics and gear anymore. And lets not forget: You have a default weapon now. It's grafted to your body, so never again will you be unarmed! Nor can you ever miss with your weapon....the aiming minigame has been removed to give us all a more 'functional experience'.

 

And my personal favorite functionality change: They've decided to reuse the game's ONE CAVE. 74 times. This brilliant improvement to functionality insures smooth exploration. Never will you get lost, or disoriented, or anything like that. By act 3, that cave will feel just as comfortably familiar as your bathroom.

Yeah, none of that is what I was thinking of. I'm glad you hate it all, though. That's good, I suppose.

 

Most of those aren't even functionality changes. Maybe functionality is the wrong word, here? That could very well be it. I'm just talking about the technical functioning of stuff. The attacks, for example. I actually liked that the auto-attack was varied. And moving and attacking/using abilities was a lot less clunky. And I like how the ability tree worked (though not everything that was on it, etc.)

 

There were a lot of technical improvements, alongside an awful lot of... er... un-provements? If they had just applied the GOOD changes from DA2 straight to DA:O, that would've been pretty great, really. But they changed some of the bad things, and most of the good ones, from the original.

[Grand_Commander13]

Yeah, the functionality changes. They're great. Such as...your character is now voiced, so you're no longer forced to read the crap writing. Oh, and your Dog is now an activated ability, so you don't have to manage his tactics and gear anymore. And lets not forget: You have a default weapon now. It's grafted to your body, so never again will you be unarmed! Nor can you ever miss with your weapon....the aiming minigame has been removed to give us all a more 'functional experience'.

 

You know, there's plenty actually wrong with Dragon Age 2 (the fact that it's three largely separate stories but treats them as one, the horrendous pacing, the fact that they made blood mage a specialization in a situation where it should be a huge deal then did nothing with it storywise); you don't need to nitpick small changes that don't matter, or even the adjustment of the way hit chances work.

[Stun]

Well, I can't think of any other functionality changes, can you?

[BruceVC]

 

Yeah, the functionality changes. They're great. Such as...your character is now voiced, so you're no longer forced to read the crap writing. Oh, and your Dog is now an activated ability, so you don't have to manage his tactics and gear anymore. And lets not forget: You have a default weapon now. It's grafted to your body, so never again will you be unarmed! Nor can you ever miss with your weapon....the aiming minigame has been removed to give us all a more 'functional experience'.

 

And my personal favorite functionality change: They've decided to reuse the game's ONE CAVE. 74 times. This brilliant improvement to functionality insures smooth exploration. Never will you get lost, or disoriented, or anything like that. By act 3, that cave will feel just as comfortably familiar as your bathroom.

Yeah, none of that is what I was thinking of. I'm glad you hate it all, though. That's good, I suppose.

 

Most of those aren't even functionality changes. Maybe functionality is the wrong word, here? That could very well be it. I'm just talking about the technical functioning of stuff. The attacks, for example. I actually liked that the auto-attack was varied. And moving and attacking/using abilities was a lot less clunky. And I like how the ability tree worked (though not everything that was on it, etc.)

 

There were a lot of technical improvements, alongside an awful lot of... er... un-provements? If they had just applied the GOOD changes from DA2 straight to DA:O, that would've been pretty great, really. But they changed some of the bad things, and most of the good ones, from the original.

 

 

I enjoyed DA 2, but it was my less favourite of all Bioware fantasy games. I enjoyed the narrative and of course it had Isabella

 

But I didn't like the reused dungeons and monsters just appearing out of thin air. Parts of it just seemed lazily done

 

Saying all that I think I still gave it a 65/100 on the much respected, listened to and global  " BruceVC gaming rating barometer" 

[Volourn]

"In terms of role-playing Bethesda has certainly been beating Bioware."

 

No. No, they haven't.  Everything about their games are trash. Even BIO's worst game role-playing wise (BG1) crushes Bethesda's best efforts.

[nzmccorm]

"In terms of role-playing Bethesda has certainly been beating Bioware."

 

No. No, they haven't.  Everything about their games are trash. Even BIO's worst game role-playing wise (BG1) crushes Bethesda's best efforts.

Can you offer some kind of exposition of that because otherwise it just seems like you have a case of the grumpy dumpies. Even Skyrim offers you a panoply of possible player characters, gives you the choice of joining up with or dismissing a large number of groups or cities, lets the player grow through their direct experience and behaviour.

 

Bioware games, on the other hand, are visual novels with fixed P;ayer Characters and bad combat bolted on. It's not role-play or story-play. It's story-telling. And that's boring.

Edited August 7, 2014 by nzmccorm

[Stun]

But I didn't like the reused dungeons and monsters just appearing out of thin air. "

Hey! Can we employ a little objective honesty here, please? Monsters in DA2 did NOT 'just appear out of thin air'. They painstakingly hopped down from rooftops and cave ceilings. lol

 

 

 

"In terms of role-playing Bethesda has certainly been beating Bioware."

 

No. No, they haven't. Everything about their games are trash. Even BIO's worst game role-playing wise (BG1) crushes Bethesda's best efforts.

Can you offer some kind of exposition of that

 

Enjoy your excruciatingly long wait for a coherent response. As in... forever. Edited August 7, 2014 by Stun

[BruceVC]

"In terms of role-playing Bethesda has certainly been beating Bioware."

 

No. No, they haven't.  Everything about their games are trash. Even BIO's worst game role-playing wise (BG1) crushes Bethesda's best efforts.

 

No Volo, now you are exaggerating.

 

You do realize that Bethesda did games like Morrowind, arguably one of the greatest fantasy RPG of all time?

[BruceVC]

 

Hey! Can we employ a little objective honesty here, please? Monsters in DA2 did NOT 'just appear out of thin air'. They painstakingly hopped down from rooftops and cave ceilings. lol

 

 

 

Maybe the monsters were under some sort of invisibility spell that wore off the moment the party came close?

 

But on a more serious note, I am very confident that Bioware has learnt its lessons from the outpouring of criticism around DA2. This is another reason I am sure DA:I will be a huge improvement

[Volourn]

"You do realize that Bethesda did games like Morrowind, arguably one of the greatest fantasy RPG of all time?"

 

L0L

[nzmccorm]

You can "L0L" all you want, but unless you offer something substantial it's just gonna make you look like an idiot. You know that, right? Like, you're hurting your own cause?

 

Also you're from Northern Ontario sooooooooooooo

Edited August 7, 2014 by nzmccorm

[BruceVC]

"You do realize that Bethesda did games like Morrowind, arguably one of the greatest fantasy RPG of all time?"

 

L0L

 

Its true Volo they did?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrowind

 

Bethesda did develop  Morrowind, I could mention  other games that did very well from Bethesda like Dishonored but they weren't the developers only the publishers

[Stun]

You can "L0L" all you want, but unless you offer something substantial it's just gonna make you look like an idiot. You know that, right? Like, you're hurting your own cause?

 

Also you're from Northern Ontario sooooooooooooo

Bioware themselves have acknowledged the successful RPG designs and elements in Bethesda games, and have promised to implement them in DA:I.

 

Of course, they're probably just driven by Skyrim's unbelievable financial success, and seek to copy it, rather than any 'artistic vision'. But hey, even a financial motivation completely void of any artistic value is bound to produce something better than DA2.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Stun

[Namutree]

"In terms of role-playing Bethesda has certainly been beating Bioware."

 

No. No, they haven't.  Everything about their games are trash. Even BIO's worst game role-playing wise (BG1) crushes Bethesda's best efforts.

BG1 is their worst game for role-playing? What drugs are you on? There was plenty of room for role-play. 

 

Now, let's compare the role playing options of a recent Bioware game like, DA2 vs Skyrim.

 

Races:

DA2-Must be a human.

Skyrim-Plenty of races.

 

Dialog:

DA2-Stupid dialog wheel doesn't even let you know what you are going to say.

Skyrim-Text responses; much better for role-playing.

 

Game Pace:

DA2-Stuck in a town and can only talk to highlighted npcs.

Skyrim- Big open world, can go anywhere you want, and can talk to whomever you want.

 

Seems like Skyrim decimates DA2 on the role-playing front. Heck, DA2 doesn't even let you decide how you look!

[BruceVC]

 

You can "L0L" all you want, but unless you offer something substantial it's just gonna make you look like an idiot. You know that, right? Like, you're hurting your own cause?

 

Also you're from Northern Ontario sooooooooooooo

Bioware themselves have acknowledged the successful RPG designs and elements in Bethesda games, and have promised to implement them in DA:I.

 

Of course, they're probably just driven by Skyrim's unbelievable financial success, and seek to copy it, rather than any 'artistic vision'. But hey, even a financial motivation is bound to produce something better than DA2.

 

 

I can completely believe that, both studios offer very entertaining and admired components in there various games. And I know Volo knows this, he is just exaggerating and making generalisations