Paladins and stats

[Jarrakul]

I would argue that it's more like rangers and rogues are dealing the damage that the fighter used to, while (from what we've heard) the fighter is doing the damage the paladin used to. Still high, but a bit under peak. The paladin is probably doing much the same damage as the fighter is now, which just happens to also be where they were in BG/IWD relative to the peak (although not relative to the fighter). Of course, this is all based on very loose information, so I might well be wrong in my assessment.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Jarrakul

[Sarex]

I would argue that it's more like rangers and rogues are dealing the damage that the fighter used to, while (from what we've heard) the fighter is doing the damage the paladin used to. Still high, but a bit under peak. The paladin is probably doing much the same damage as the fighter is now, which just happens to also be where they were in BG/IWD relative to the peak (although not relative to the fighter). Of course, this is all based on very loose information, so I might well be wrong in my assessment.

 

Hey, if it turns out like that, you won't find anyone happier then me. Go Paladins!

[Silent Winter]

Personally, if a game doesn't allow me to roll stats (e.g. IWD2) then I'll kick up excel and generate my own rolls

None of that new-fangled tech-malarky for me - If I wanna roll, I'll dig out the dice and roll them on the desk

(edit: just moved to a new apartment and found my old D&D dice in the move - D20/12/10/8/6/4 ready!) (May need a D100 for PoE though)

I think point-buy is fine for a cRPG.  Re-rolling defeats the purpose for me.

If it were 'Roll your stats' (once) then 'pick your class', it'd be fun from a 'this is my character, now I'll see what he's good at' perspective.

But since it'll probably be BG-style 'pick class then do stats' type, I think point-buy is the better solution.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Silent Winter

[Judicator]

How do you guys figure Fighters used to do more damage before? With Grandmastery nerfed they were about as good as Paladins, Rangers, and Barbarians.

[Jarrakul]

It depends what version you're playing. In BG2 unmodded, their damage was much the same because mastery and above was awful (+1/+2 for specialization vs. +2/+4 for grandmastery). Fighters had an advantage, but it was very small. In BG1 unmodded, most modded BG2 games, and the BGEEs, mastery and grandmastery are both awesome (+1/+2 for specialization vs. +3/+3 for mastery and +3/+5 and an extra half attack for grandmastery). This usually meant that fighters did noticeably more damage than paladins, but not by so much that paladins were by any means weak.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Paladins FTW!

 

Actually, Rogue as a high-damage class is how it was in 3e, where sneak attack would boost the hell out of damage output. Fighters will probably have higher base damage, and Paladins, Barbarians, and Ciphers won't be too far away.

 

PoE Paladins also have great defenses. So why they may not be able to hit as hard as a fighter, they can laugh at spells that would demolish fighters.

[Judicator]

It depends what version you're playing. In BG2 unmodded, their damage was much the same because mastery and above was awful (+1/+2 for specialization vs. +2/+4 for grandmastery). Fighters had an advantage, but it was very small. In BG1 unmodded, most modded BG2 games, and the BGEEs, mastery and grandmastery are both awesome (+1/+2 for specialization vs. +3/+3 for mastery and +3/+5 and an extra half attack for grandmastery). This usually meant that fighters did noticeably more damage than paladins, but not by so much that paladins were by any means weak.

Oh, I know that. I play BG2 with the true grandmastery mod, but I was referring to the vanilla version where grandmastery is pointless.

[J.E. Sawyer]

That is the only thing I really dislike so far about the classes. I'm fine with rogues being spike damage dealers, but I would have liked for the fighters/barbarians/paladins to have a more consistent damage output, that is higher then rogues regular attacks.

 

On regular attacks, fighters do have more consistent damage output than rogues due to two things: a) Weapon Specialization and b) Confident Aim.  They hit more often and their average damage is higher.  Rogues are really offensive powerhouses but without shoring up their defenses they can go down quickly.  Paladins can also spike damage a bit through Flames of Devotion and Sworn Enemy but yeah, overall they are support-oriented.  That said, they do benefit from their own auras, which is nice.  Barbarians are the best at dealing damage to groups at close range.  Like D&D barbarians, it's hard to give them the Flanked condition so it's safer for them to take on multiple opponents.  Their Carnage passive ability lets them progressively melee-AoE groups to death.  And of course, they can Frenzy.

 

We still have a lot of tuning to do, but I genuinely enjoy playing all of the melee-oriented classes for different reasons.  As a fighter, I miss the rogue's ability to spike someone really hard when I need to.  As a rogue, I miss the fighter's ability to hold a line, self-heal, and actively avoid/passively absorb seemingly endless damage.  As a barbarian, I miss the fighter's longevity and "stickiness" as well as the paladin's support abilities, etc.

 

When you play these characters, we want you to feel very happy with the abilities your class has, but we also think it's important for you to recognize that other classes have things to offer that your class lacks.  It makes those other classes feel valuable in their own ways.

[Sarex]

Thank you for the detailed answer. I'm very happy with the info you provided. That's pretty much what I hoped for from the classes.

[ManifestedISO]

 

Paladins in PoE are not all religiously-affiliated as they are in A/D&D.  The paladin companion, Pallegina, is associated with a secular political organization.  There are "traditional" paladin orders in the world like the Shieldbearers of St. Elcga, Kind Wayfarers, and Fellows of St. Waidwen, but there are also mercenary paladins (Goldpact Knights), battlefield ravagers (Bleak Walkers) and all sorts of other groups.  Without exception paladins are always zealously devoted to their chosen cause, but their chosen causes and codes of behavior are quite varied.

 

 

 

From the other thread, but some interesting new stuff here. Bleak Walkers, ravaging battlefields, zealous devotion, ambiguous moral codes ... the paladin class is going to be all that and a bag of morning stars.  

[Judicator]

 

That is the only thing I really dislike so far about the classes. I'm fine with rogues being spike damage dealers, but I would have liked for the fighters/barbarians/paladins to have a more consistent damage output, that is higher then rogues regular attacks.

 

On regular attacks, fighters do have more consistent damage output than rogues due to two things: a) Weapon Specialization and b) Confident Aim.  They hit more often and their average damage is higher.  Rogues are really offensive powerhouses but without shoring up their defenses they can go down quickly.  Paladins can also spike damage a bit through Flames of Devotion and Sworn Enemy but yeah, overall they are support-oriented.  That said, they do benefit from their own auras, which is nice.  Barbarians are the best at dealing damage to groups at close range.  Like D&D barbarians, it's hard to give them the Flanked condition so it's safer for them to take on multiple opponents.  Their Carnage passive ability lets them progressively melee-AoE groups to death.  And of course, they can Frenzy.

 

We still have a lot of tuning to do, but I genuinely enjoy playing all of the melee-oriented classes for different reasons.  As a fighter, I miss the rogue's ability to spike someone really hard when I need to.  As a rogue, I miss the fighter's ability to hold a line, self-heal, and actively avoid/passively absorb seemingly endless damage.  As a barbarian, I miss the fighter's longevity and "stickiness" as well as the paladin's support abilities, etc.

 

When you play these characters, we want you to feel very happy with the abilities your class has, but we also think it's important for you to recognize that other classes have things to offer that your class lacks.  It makes those other classes feel valuable in their own ways.

 

Thanks for the detailed answer.

 

 

 

Paladins in PoE are not all religiously-affiliated as they are in A/D&D.  The paladin companion, Pallegina, is associated with a secular political organization.  There are "traditional" paladin orders in the world like the Shieldbearers of St. Elcga, Kind Wayfarers, and Fellows of St. Waidwen, but there are also mercenary paladins (Goldpact Knights), battlefield ravagers (Bleak Walkers) and all sorts of other groups.  Without exception paladins are always zealously devoted to their chosen cause, but their chosen causes and codes of behavior are quite varied.

 

 

 

From the other thread, but some interesting new stuff here. Bleak Walkers, ravaging battlefields, zealous devotion, ambiguous moral codes ... the paladin class is going to be all that and a bag of morning stars.  

 

A Death Godlike Paladin keeps sounding better and better.