The general fitness thread

[Orogun01]

The problem with this idea is when performing lifts I always feel pretty damn exhausted, I wouldn't notice any difference until its too late. 

When I say light I mean lower weight than what you're used to when you're healthy. Increment by manageable amounts if you feel well after each set and see if you can find your breaking point. Don't go above it and you'll probably be safe to exercise until you're fully recovered. 

Which with exercise should be pretty darn soon.

[Woldan]

^  Well, I see no alternative so thats what I'm going to do.  

Don't go above it and you'll probably be safe to exercise until you're fully recovered. Which with exercise should be pretty darn soon.

I hope you are darn right!

[Mor]

I am pretty sure that couple of days is all you need, provided that you indeed rest and nourish yourself. During that time exercise is counter productive, your body is weak and poorelly adjust to various things such as heat changes, this is especially true if you get to the "sore" point(which is basically inflammation of the muscle) Also if you took anything to address your symptoms, as oppose to "riding it out", you might want to give it a couple of days more to make sure you are actually out of the woods.

 

Btw, it goes beyond saying that this is the internet, and if you really want a medical professional advice just pick up your phone to your doc, don't trust someone you don't know.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Mor

[BruceVC]

^  Well, I see no alternative so thats what I'm going to do.  

Don't go above it and you'll probably be safe to exercise until you're fully recovered. Which with exercise should be pretty darn soon.

I hope you are darn right!

 

Wait another 3-4 days, so give it 7 days. You were very sick, I know that restless feeling when you haven't trained for a while. You feel like you should be doing something and you feel like you are going to get completely out of shape but you'll be fine. It won't take you long to get back into your normal regime

[213374U]

The problem with this idea is when performing lifts I always feel pretty damn exhausted, I wouldn't notice any difference until its too late. ..or until I'd pass out and die. 

 

If you feel like training (as opposed to feeling obligated to train), that's the best sign that you are fit for duty. Go hit the weights, but pay attention. If you insist on using the same loads as you did before you were sick, you are probably going to hit failure much sooner than usual, this is normal. I remember you said you had had a fainting incident caused by lack of nutrients, which means low blood sugar levels. That means low liver and intramuscular glycogen levels leading to poor comparative performance, especially if you haven't been eating normally the last few days. Do not try to push beyond failure or get the same results as you were before.

 

I'd say a good approach to see how you react is taking a compound exercise and doing 3-4 warm-up sets with increasing weights to see how it goes. If by the end of the warm-up you're not feeling good (excessive panting, shaking, nausea, cold sweat, etc), just give it up. Otherwise continue, but a good strategy to consider while you recover completely would be deloading. Remember that a workout is considered an aggression by the system and strains the immune system—intense bouts can give you a fever, as I'm sure you know.

 

However, you train alone, and that is a serious risk if something goes wrong. So consider finding a partner to train with for a few days or just laying it off completely. Two weeks without training isn't going to kill your gains. Your call.

 

Good luck, and play it safe.

Edited February 14, 2014 by 213374U

[Woldan]

I just did 12 chin-ups and 10 ledge pull-ups (PU's without using thumbs) as compounds just to test if my fitness has fully returned, they felt like the easiest exercise ever, my heart rate hardly increased and I didn't even sweat a single drop. Guess I'm ready to go. WOOT  

 

But just in case I get dizzy again I have put my exercise bench right behind me if I feel the sudden urge to sit/lay down quickly, I also moved the bar- and dumbbells away from the floor. Better save than sorry. 

Edited February 15, 2014 by Woldan

[Woldan]

Tried some ''towel pull ups'', got that idea from one guy on Youtube. You throw a towel over your pull-up bar, grab each end and do pull ups. If you think you have a good grip strength try that exercise, it basically simulates pulling your body weight on two ropes, and in my case thats almost 100kg. Great biceps and forearm exercise, feels a bit like bent forward rows, but way cooler.

[alanschu]

If you look at what ''average'' is then its really not a big deal to get above average and it starts to get interesting at ''extremely good''. Being able to do more than ten push-ups is ''above average'', and so is being able to deadlift your own weight more than once.

Above average is nothing.

You're just being pedantic with the words I'm using. You also omitted the "likely not by an insignificant amount." Sorry, but both that hammer thrower and 200m hurdler are going to kick all our asses at a whole lot of different events than the specific ones they are olympic experts in. It seems we're just arguing semantics over what the scale actually is. Given that you were the one citing olympic athletes, I find it frustrating that because I use the word "above average" (by a not insignificant amount...) you revert ALL the way back to all people, sedentary and otherwise.

 

Despite claims otherwise, you seem closed off and narrowminded in your fitness goals at this point (which is fine, if that's what you want out of your exercise). I don't believe this is a good thing, unless your goal is specifically to become a focused showman body builder. But then this shouldn't be a "general fitness thread" because general fitness would imply general fitness, not just body building.

 

Michael Jordan in his prime, or an olympic sprinter, isn't going to be able to powerlift as much as the competitive body builder, but I'd argue they are significantly more "good at everything" in terms of bodily fitness. To use numberman's words:

 

I'm familiar with the principle of specifity, but making it the basis for an either/or viewpoint is sadly limiting. Clearly the gymnast in the vid isn't going to be able to bench 600 lbs. But outside of world-class athletic feats, which is not what most people train for, a better general conditioning is possible... without necessarily compromising other fitness aspects. The point I was making is that to a bodybuilder, size (and definition, etc) is the #1 priority, raw strength being simply a means to achieve that, and everything else an afterthought... why then are they still so prominent in general fitness culture?

 

Unless you're training to be an competitive expert in a particular event, I disagree with the notion that "you have to choose what you want to be good at" and feel you're undermining your general fitness if this is the mindset that you go into exercise with. And I'm not even taking into account on how improving the other aspects numbers listed (motor control and proprioception) can have benefits beyond general fitness (proprioception is immensely valuable in injury prevention).

Edited February 16, 2014 by alanschu

[Woldan]

Lets keep the conversation polite, shall we? 

 

 

Unless you're training to be an competitive expert in a particular event, I disagree with the notion that "you have to choose what you want to be good at" and feel you're undermining your general fitness if this is the mindset that you go into exercise with.

 

 

I'll give an example. Its easy to get your body weight up to 95+ kilograms when doing lots of strength training, the muscle muss is required to lift the weights, and muscles weigh a lot, simple physics. And I'm not talking about professional athletes.
Now put that person on a bike and let him compete against a hobby cyclist (again, not a professional), who weighs 15-20% less and has noticeably less rolling friction and aerodynamic drag. Its pretty clear how this race will end, simple physics.

Both athletes aren't good at everything, though they're not even professional or Olympic athletes.

 

Its absolutely true that you can be good at everything, but only up to a rather low level, but then things get complicated quickly and you have to choose. 

 

And thats just the physics, now lets take a look at exercise regime required to be good at everything. Serious strength training requires at least 3 days a week 1-1.5 hours of rigorous work. Cycling and running long distances will also require a min. of 3 days per week, each exercise stint taking 2-4 hours. Doing strength and cardio exercises on the same day is not recommended. Oh, and you should also throw in a couple of days of gymnastics and climbing for motor control, as you mentioned. 

And thats just the tip of the iceberg.

 

I'm trying to be decent at strength and endurance and my exercise schedule is already hard as hell with 4 days strength and 3 days cardio, I barely have enough time for regeneration, and all that in combination with work and all my other duties.

 

An exercise regime to be good at everything? Good luck with that. 

 

Despite claims otherwise, you seem closed off and narrowminded in your fitness goals at this point (which is fine, if that's what you want out of your exercise). I don't believe this is a good thing, unless your goal is specifically to become a focused showman body builder.

What makes you think you know my fitness goals? You don't even know that I'm NOT a body builder. Thats rather arrogant. 

Edited February 16, 2014 by Woldan

[Orogun01]

Are you a professional bodybuilder?

[Woldan]

I hate repeating myself.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Woldan

[213374U]

 

I'll give an example. Its easy to get your body weight up to 95+ kilograms when doing lots of strength training, the muscle muss is required to lift the weights, and muscles weigh a lot, simple physics.

 

 

I made a post last page addressing this point. TL;DR: That's not exactly how it works.

 

Also, why no off days? That's pretty hardcore.

 

Just my opinion, I know better than to offer unsolicited advice. And, hey, if you are in good health and making steady gains, who am I to say anything.

[Mor]

I thought to post this in the Olympics thread, but I was discouraged by the crowd. Here is a nice motivational video about fitness/sports and life in general:

 

Edited February 18, 2014 by Mor

[Woldan]

Also, why no off days? That's pretty hardcore.

 Just my opinion, I know better than to offer unsolicited advice. And, hey, if you are in good health and making steady gains, who am I to say anything.

Sounds more hardcore than it actually is, only one of the three cardio days is cycling 40+ kilometers and the four day weight lifting regime is actually a stretched and extended three day routine. I need to keep myself busy every day to get my mind off depressing thoughts and to keep an addiction away from me.

 

Anyway, I just read an interesting article from Henry Rollins about lifting weights. I'm not really a fan of him but its an interesting read and I totally agree with almost all points he makes.

 

 

 

I believe that the definition of definition is reinvention.

 

To not be like your parents. To not be like your friends. To be yourself. Completely.

 

When I was young I had no sense of myself. All I was, was a product of all the fear and humiliation I suffered. Fear of my parents. The humiliation of teachers calling me “garbage can” and telling me I’d be mowing lawns for a living. And the very real terror of my fellow students. I was threatened and beaten up for the color of my skin and my size. I was skinny and clumsy, and when others would tease me I didn’t run home crying, wondering why. I knew all too well. I was there to be antagonized. In sports I was laughed at. A spaz. I was pretty good at boxing but only because the rage that filled my every waking moment made me wild and unpredictable. I fought with some strange fury. The other boys thought I was crazy.

 

I hated myself all the time. As stupid at it seems now, I wanted to talk like them, dress like them, carry myself with the ease of knowing that I wasn’t going to get pounded in the hallway between classes.

 

Years passed and I learned to keep it all inside. I only talked to a few boys in my grade. Other losers. Some of them are to this day the greatest people I have ever known. Hang out with a guy who has had his head flushed down a toilet a few times, treat him with respect, and you’ll find a faithful friend forever. But even with friends, school sucked. Teachers gave me hard time. I didn’t think much of them either.

 

Then came Mr. Pepperman, my adviser. He was a powerfully built Vietnam veteran, and he was scary. No one ever talked out of turn in his class. Once one kid did and Mr. P. lifted him off the ground and pinned him to the blackboard.

 

Mr. P. could see that I was in bad shape, and one Friday in October he asked me if I had ever worked out with weights. I told him no. He told me that I was going to take some of the money that I had saved and buy a hundred-pound set of weights at Sears. As I left his office, I started to think of things I would say to him on Monday when he asked about the weights that I was not going to buy. Still, it made me feel special. My father never really got that close to caring. On Saturday I bought the weights, but I couldn’t even drag them to my mom’s car. An attendant laughed at me as he put them on a dolly.

 

Monday came and I was called into Mr. P.’s office after school. He said that he was going to show me how to work out. He was going to put me on a program and start hitting me in the solar plexus in the hallway when I wasn’t looking. When I could take the punch we would know that we were getting somewhere. At no time was I to look at myself in the mirror or tell anyone at school what I was doing.

 

In the gym he showed me ten basic exercises. I paid more attention than I ever did in any of my classes. I didn’t want to blow it. I went home that night and started right in. Weeks passed, and every once in a while Mr. P. would give me a shot and drop me in the hallway, sending my books flying. The other students didn’t know what to think. More weeks passed, and I was steadily adding new weights to the bar. I could sense the power inside my body growing. I could feel it.

 

Right before Christmas break I was walking to class, and from out of nowhere Mr. Pepperman appeared and gave me a shot in the chest. I laughed and kept going. He said I could look at myself now. I got home and ran to the bathroom and pulled off my shirt. I saw a body, not just the shell that housed my stomach and my heart. My biceps bulged. My chest had definition. I felt strong. It was the first time I can remember having a sense of myself. I had done something and no one could ever take it away. You couldn’t say **** to me.

 

It took me years to fully appreciate the value of the lessons I have learned from the Iron. I used to think that it was my adversary, that I was trying to lift that which does not want to be lifted. I was wrong. When the Iron doesn’t want to come off the mat, it’s the kindest thing it can do for you. If it flew up and went through the ceiling, it wouldn’t teach you anything. That’s the way the Iron talks to you. It tells you that the material you work with is that which you will come to resemble. That which you work against will always work against you.

 

It wasn’t until my late twenties that I learned that by working out I had given myself a great gift. I learned that nothing good comes without work and a certain amount of pain. When I finish a set that leaves me shaking, I know more about myself. When something gets bad, I know it can’t be as bad as that workout.

 

I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness. But when dealing with the Iron, one must be careful to interpret the pain correctly. Most injuries involving the Iron come from ego. I once spent a few weeks lifting weight that my body wasn’t ready for and spent a few months not picking up anything heavier than a fork. Try to lift what you’re not prepared to and the Iron will teach you a little lesson in restraint and self-control.

 

I have never met a truly strong person who didn’t have self-respect. I think a lot of inwardly and outwardly directed contempt passes itself off as self-respect: the idea of raising yourself by stepping on someone’s shoulders instead of doing it yourself. When I see guys working out for cosmetic reasons, I see vanity exposing them in the worst way, as cartoon characters, billboards for imbalance and insecurity. Strength reveals itself through character. It is the difference between bouncers who get off strong-arming people and Mr. Pepperman.

 

Muscle mass does not always equal strength. Strength is kindness and sensitivity. Strength is understanding that your power is both physical and emotional. That it comes from the body and the mind. And the heart.

 

Yukio Mishima said that he could not entertain the idea of romance if he was not strong. Romance is such a strong and overwhelming passion, a weakened body cannot sustain it for long. I have some of my most romantic thoughts when I am with the Iron. Once I was in love with a woman. I thought about her the most when the pain from a workout was racing through my body. Everything in me wanted her. So much so that sex was only a fraction of my total desire. It was the single most intense love I have ever felt, but she lived far away and I didn’t see her very often. Working out was a healthy way of dealing with the loneliness. To this day, when I work out I usually listen to ballads.

 

I prefer to work out alone. It enables me to concentrate on the lessons that the Iron has for me. Learning about what you’re made of is always time well spent, and I have found no better teacher. The Iron had taught me how to live.

 

Life is capable of driving you out of your mind. The way it all comes down these days, it’s some kind of miracle if you’re not insane. People have become separated from their bodies. They are no longer whole. I see them move from their offices to their cars and on to their suburban homes. They stress out constantly, they lose sleep, they eat badly. And they behave badly. Their egos run wild; they become motivated by that which will eventually give them a massive stroke. They need the Iron mind.

 

Through the years, I have combined meditation, action, and the Iron into a single strength. I believe that when the body is strong, the mind thinks strong thoughts. Time spent away from the Iron makes my mind degenerate. I wallow in a thick depression. My body shuts down my mind. The Iron is the best antidepressant I have ever found. There is no better way to fight weakness than with strength. Once the mind and body have been awakened to their true potential, it’s impossible to turn back.

 

The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs.

 

Friends may come and go.

 

But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Woldan

[Orogun01]

I remember reading that article a while back and watching his videos on Big Think and his IFC series. Ever since then I refer him to my friends as the "inspirational rock guy".

 

Edit: He sucks as a musician though, but I still like him.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Orogun01

[Woldan]

 

 

Edit: He sucks as a musician though, but I still like him.

 

To be honest, I've never heard a single song from him, (with ''not a fan'' I meant his usual ravings), all I know is he dizzed Trent Reznor once and that automatically makes him a not so awesome person to me.

[BruceVC]

I have a question, as I mentioned I am doing 1 hour cardio 4-6 times a week and its going really well. I run for 20 minutes on the treadmill and this is my question. In order to improve my running fitness is it better to run at the same speed but slowly increase that speed or is it better to run fast for 3 minutes and then slow it down and then run fast for another 3 minutes ?

[213374U]

I think you'd have to clearly identify what you mean by running fitness first. Do you mean endurance, as in running for 2 hours instead of 1 as a goal? Or you want to run for greater distances in that hour? You want to get better at sprinting? Simply a better VO₂max? Body fat changes?

 

I'm not a fan of running, myself, but in general clear (and sensible) goals are the first step before designing or making changes to a training plan.

[BruceVC]

I think you'd have to clearly identify what you mean by running fitness first. Do you mean endurance, as in running for 2 hours instead of 1 as a goal? Or you want to run for greater distances in that hour? You want to get better at sprinting? Simply a better VO₂max? Body fat changes?

 

I'm not a fan of running, myself, but in general clear (and sensible) goals are the first step before designing or making changes to a training plan.

 

Good point, so all I want to do is to do cardio and to continue to improve on cardio, I have no interest in doing weights . I want to able to run faster in those 20 minutes and eventually get to the point where I can sprint, or max the treadmill,  at 15 km\hour in those 20 minutes. At the moment I run between 10-11 km/hour. I do my running at the end of all my other cardio training, which is cycling and rowing

[213374U]

I have very little knowledge of running-specific coaching techniques, but you can probably benefit from training in sets, look up interval training—that's to begin with (periodization is also effective if you are serious, but that's more long-term). You will probably want to get the interval training out of the way first, and then do your regular cardio work. While cardio is good for fat burning, it does little for you at the metabolic, hormonal and structural planes, and is conducive to injury due to the combination of reduced ranges of motion and extreme repetition. It is also known to favor muscular imbalances—hamstring injuries are rather common in runners as a result of hamstring-quad imbalance, also problems caused by lumbopelvic instability.

 

Consider taking up strength training man, you don't need to stop doing what you are doing and the benefits are well established. And transforming into a cut-out t-shirt Instagram douche is completely optional.

[alanschu]

Interval training is a good idea if you're seeking to become a better runner. If you seek to get faster, you do run the risk of muscle imbalance as 213374U points out. I'd recommend checking out some hamstring strengthening exercises (glutes could be handy too. My hamstrings weren't weak, but my glutes were which caused my hamstrings to compensate and predisposed them to injury).

[Woldan]

A good hamstring exercise is barbell-lunges, I'd definitely give them a try because - besides thighs and hamstrings- they also work all the auxiliary muscles of the lower body and legs. More than any other exercise I know. You get the whole package with a single exercise.    
 
Anyway, about three weeks ago I started doing pull ups with a rope, even though its mainly a back exercise I also noticed serious upper and lower arm gains in strength and looks.
Highly recommendable exercise, just don't do them when you plan to do heavy dead lifts anytime soon, your fingers will be tired.
 
Awesome arm workout.   
 

[BruceVC]

A good hamstring exercise is barbell-lunges, I'd definitely give them a try because - besides thighs and hamstrings- they also work all the auxiliary muscles of the lower body and legs. More than any other exercise I know. You get the whole package with a single exercise.    

 

Anyway, about three weeks ago I started doing pull ups with a rope, even though its mainly a back exercise I also noticed serious upper and lower arm gains in strength and looks.

Highly recommendable exercise, just don't do them when you plan to do heavy dead lifts anytime soon, your fingers will be tired.

 

Awesome arm workout.   

 

 

You look good, imagine how big you would be if you did take supplements

[213374U]

You absolutely don't need supplements. Your body produces everything it needs to build strength and muscle, provided it has the necessary building blocks (macronutrients) at hand. Problem is, as discussed in the other thread, that your average first-world Joe's diet is all over the place, and in order to build muscle your body needs a healthy energy surplus and more protein that is obtained from a "normal" diet. Your body is extremely good at using just about anything (except minerals and water) as an energy source and to produce other stuff it needs—at different efficiency rates—but "essential" amino acids must be acquired from external sources. This also ties in with the "biological value" of protein that is so popular with the BB crowd.

 

The only real advantage of protein powder is convenience. You can prepare and consume a protein-rich meal quickly and easily, but you could get the same results with regular food, and it may be cheaper too. It's also easier to mentally prepare for—I have no problem with tough workouts, but eating as much as I should is a total chore for me.

 

The only exception to that is creatine. Creatine has been shown in trials to provide a slight edge in strength work (~5% IIRC) and lead to some lean mass gains, but the mechanism behind that is not well understood. Coffee is deserving of a mention too but I'm not sure if peeps would consider it a supplement (coffee is teh shiznit).

 

TL;DR: supplements are a) strictly unnecessary and b) for lazy people like me.

[BruceVC]

You absolutely don't need supplements. Your body produces everything it needs to build strength and muscle, provided it has the necessary building blocks (macronutrients) at hand. Problem is, as discussed in the other thread, that your average first-world Joe's diet is all over the place, and in order to build muscle your body needs a healthy energy surplus and more protein that is obtained from a "normal" diet. Your body is extremely good at using just about anything (except minerals and water) as an energy source and to produce other stuff it needs—at different efficiency rates—but "essential" amino acids must be acquired from external sources. This also ties in with the "biological value" of protein that is so popular with the BB crowd.

 

The only real advantage of protein powder is convenience. You can prepare and consume a protein-rich meal quickly and easily, but you could get the same results with regular food, and it may be cheaper too. It's also easier to mentally prepare for—I have no problem with tough workouts, but eating as much as I should is a total chore for me.

 

The only exception to that is creatine. Creatine has been shown in trials to provide a slight edge in strength work (~5% IIRC) and lead to some lean mass gains, but the mechanism behind that is not well understood. Coffee is deserving of a mention too but I'm not sure if peeps would consider it a supplement (coffee is teh shiznit).

 

TL;DR: supplements are a) strictly unnecessary and b) for lazy people like me.

 

Interesting post, I learnt something