The third amendment, the one that we thought wasn't really relevant anymore. Just got discarded

[Rostere]

'Politely' do as they want? L0L How do they manage that?

 

L0L 'Bullied by criminal'. If the cops are stealing my property theya r eno longer cops. Just bullies. if they can take whatever they want when theyw ant that makes them bullies and absusing their power. wHICH IS IMMORAL, EVIL, AND SELFISH.

 

Why do people feel then police should be allowed to do whatever they want just because they have a unfiorm? That's screwed up.

 

They were not stealing anyone's property, they were using someone else's apartment for a routine arrest of a dangerous individual. I don't see how you can even begin to connect that with "evil" and "selfish". They were only doing their job.

 

Sure, at a later point it does seem they overreacted, but that is another matter and beside the (my) point as I have stated earlier.

 

 

 

I doubt they had authorization, they would need a judge to sign off on it.

 

It's funny that Volourn is in complete agreement with me here but is yelling at me in the other cop thread

 

 

edit:  I can see why someone would not let the cops stakeout in their house.  It gets you involved in a domestic violence case.  What happens if the neighbor doesn't go to prison, or gets out in a year, and you still have to live next to him/her?

 

I don't know?

 

Where I live, the assumption would be that any citizen would let the police use their house, and if the citizen would disagree, that the police could politely do as they wanted anyway, of course recompensating for any inconvenience. Additionally, most people would rather go to the police than be bullied by any criminal. It's hard and/or pointless to threaten people if you know the stakes are against you, and we can only make this so by acting collectively in support of the law enforcement.

 

 

I don't think you've actually had to deal with any "real" criminals in your time. In a fundamentally safe, liberal society like the nordic countries individual criminals and troublemakers can get away with a lot more than they would in a more repressed society. Truely, whoever wrote Ra's al Ghul's line ("Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding.") in Batman Begins was right on the money.

 

I have to deal with the "dark side of the welfare state" on a daily basis. I wouldv'e acted as the plaintiffs did in this case. (including probably calling my mother when police start to force their way into my apartment :D)

 

What? This is so upside down I hardly know where to begin.

 

Criminals can get away with LESS if the society coöperates with the law enforcement against the criminals. The aspect of "safe and liberal" does not play in here. It has nothing with this matter to do. I am trying to say that it is harder for criminals to do anything at all if the public will inform of and testify against criminals, and in every possible way be helpful to the police.

 

"Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding." Yes, but if this is even true, think about what this means. Society's understanding. Criminals thrive in a sick environment where people sympathize with crime, where individuals can be expected to work against the efforts of law enforcement (like this don't-enter-my-house dude). If you could use this as some sort of whimsical argument by Batman then it would be decidedly on my side.

 

"The dark side of the welfare state" In the same way, I have no idea of what this means in this context. Are you trying to say you are paying high taxes?

[Calax]

This should probably go in the other thread about cops, but i think part of the issue is that there are enough things that are "illegal" but done as a part of daily life that people get frustrated when those laws are invoked. Speeding is one of them, which can lead to more problems because the cops can do a roadside inspection after they pull you over for speeding.

 

I mean, in pop culture today, It's expected that celebs are going to be doing drugs and drinking like their livers are impossible to kill. Smoking weed is basically entirely out in the open, and things like prostitution are known to happen along side the drugs. The population starts following along (weed in particular) and then feel targeted any time a cop shows up at their door, particularly when they see the "upper class" get caught with 10 times the amount and end up in a posh rehab facility for six weeks before they get released back to the world. Meanwhile the average joe gets upwards of 1 year in jail.

 

It doesn't help that the government itself is starting to be seen more as a tool of the corporations to impliment their will, rather than something that's on the people's side. Thus people also see the entire justice system as simply something designed to keep the status quo (and widen the margins between have's and have nots). It really says something when a large portion of the black population in the USA says "Cops are corrupt racist jerks who are gonna ensure that you go in jail!"

 

As to the subject that originally started this thread? Ultimately I think it comes down to the cops violated their code of conduct and should be suspended without pay for a month, but I don't think that they broke a consitutional protection.

[Orogun01]

The system's fracture when it comes to police it mostly due to the fact that policemen have crime quotas (which is why they go out of their way to give you a ticket) in order to show that they are dealing with crime they have to make certain number of arrests (so it shouldn't be so surprising that the US is the country with the largest prison population).

It is somewhat like a doctor telling you that you don't have cancer but since there is an excess of chemo that they need to get rid off you still have to take it.

[ManifestedISO]

^^ No, not a fact. 

[Volourn]

"I mean, in pop culture today, It's expected that celebs are going to be doing drugs and drinking like their livers are impossible to kill. Smoking weed is basically entirely out in the open, and things like prostitution are known to happen along side the drugs. The population starts following along (weed in particular) and then feel targeted any time a cop shows up at their door, particularly when they see the "upper class" get caught with 10 times the amount and end up in a posh rehab facility for six weeks before they get released back to the world. Meanwhile the average joe gets upwards of 1 year in jail."
 

You think prostitution exists because celebrities take aprt in it? L0L People do drugs because they enjoy the high.

 

And, please most people who get caught for drugs don't spent much if any time in jail. Sadly, I know more thana few people who have taken drugs and got caught and are unlucky enough to spend one night in jail.  I also believe you are making crap up with your make believe numbers.

 

 

I also love how you took a cop thread into a bash celebrities and rich people. L0LZ

[ShadySands]

The system's fracture when it comes to police it mostly due to the fact that policemen have crime quotas (which is why they go out of their way to give you a ticket) in order to show that they are dealing with crime they have to make certain number of arrests (so it shouldn't be so surprising that the US is the country with the largest prison population).

 

It is somewhat like a doctor telling you that you don't have cancer but since there is an excess of chemo that they need to get rid off you still have to take it.

 

They don't all have quotas 

 

For instance the department where my cousin (mentioned in the police thread) works only the motorcycle cops have quotas for how many tickets they give because that's pretty much their only function

 

Also, I would say that the war on drugs, three strikes laws, for profit prisons, and a culture that glorifies criminal activity would be much more likely culprits for our ridiculous prison population

[Calax]

"I mean, in pop culture today, It's expected that celebs are going to be doing drugs and drinking like their livers are impossible to kill. Smoking weed is basically entirely out in the open, and things like prostitution are known to happen along side the drugs. The population starts following along (weed in particular) and then feel targeted any time a cop shows up at their door, particularly when they see the "upper class" get caught with 10 times the amount and end up in a posh rehab facility for six weeks before they get released back to the world. Meanwhile the average joe gets upwards of 1 year in jail."

 

You think prostitution exists because celebrities take aprt in it? L0L People do drugs because they enjoy the high.

 

And, please most people who get caught for drugs don't spent much if any time in jail. Sadly, I know more thana few people who have taken drugs and got caught and are unlucky enough to spend one night in jail.  I also believe you are making crap up with your make believe numbers.

 

 

I also love how you took a cop thread into a bash celebrities and rich people. L0LZ

Congratulations on missing the point. I know hookers exist because I've seen them plying their trade, both here in Iowa and back in California (where for about 6 months they'd been "selling" around the governors house).

 

The point was that the Media glorifies all sorts of law breaking. Drugs, booze (underage in particular), hookers (with a "heart of gold" of course), the Mob, "gangstas" and driving fast are all things that have entire films dedicated to their glorification. And the celebrities that people LOVE to follow oh so much are well known to be addicts in some way shape or form. 

 

The reason I'm pointing this out is because of what Shady's saying. We glorify crime, and so people copycat. And it doesn't help that certain activities are SO widespread (Speeding and pot smoking) that it can feel like people are specifically targeted when they're the ones who get ticketed/arrested. I mean you're sitting there getting a ticket while people fly by at 80 (in a 65 zone) and you're gonna be pretty pissed at the cop. And my mom (a hort teacher) has to deal with at least one student a semester who stinks up the back of the class because he's been smoking like a train for the hour before class.

[Volourn]

"The point was that the Media glorifies all sorts of law breaking. Drugs, booze (underage in particular), hookers (with a "heart of gold" of course), the Mob, "gangstas" and driving fast are all things that have entire films dedicated to their glorification."

 

Oh, please. people were doing all these things well before the modern 'celebrity' came to be.

 

 

 

"And it doesn't help that certain activities are SO widespread (Speeding and pot smoking) that it can feel like people are specifically targeted when they're the ones who get ticketed/arrested. I mean you're sitting there getting a ticket while people fly by at 80 (in a 65 zone) and you're gonna be pretty pissed at the cop."

 

I agree with this. It's why I think speeding and drugs shouldn't be illegal neccessarily. Speeding should simply be under the 'dangerous driving' law or whatever it is called since not all 'speeding' is dangerous. In fact, i have never seen ANy driver  who is udner the speed limit. Even the slwoest of drivers tend to go over the limit once and awhile - espicially on the highway where the limit maybe 90 but people will go upwards of 110 or 120 .. YET.. here is the kicker... they have complete control of the car with no dangerof crashing it.

 

Of coruse, in cities, speeding is a little different b/c of pedestrians and red lights. But, there are laws tod eal with that crap.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Volourn

[Orogun01]

 

The system's fracture when it comes to police it mostly due to the fact that policemen have crime quotas (which is why they go out of their way to give you a ticket) in order to show that they are dealing with crime they have to make certain number of arrests (so it shouldn't be so surprising that the US is the country with the largest prison population).

 

It is somewhat like a doctor telling you that you don't have cancer but since there is an excess of chemo that they need to get rid off you still have to take it.

 

They don't all have quotas 

 

For instance the department where my cousin (mentioned in the police thread) works only the motorcycle cops have quotas for how many tickets they give because that's pretty much their only function

 

Also, I would say that the war on drugs, three strikes laws, for profit prisons, and a culture that glorifies criminal activity would be much more likely culprits for our ridiculous prison population

 

They do encourage them to get arrest to show the boys upstairs that they are doing their fight on crime, meaning more funding, meaning statistics show a decrease in crime and everyone is happy. Or i'm I also wrong about that? Seriously, I'm hoping that's not the case for every precinct. 

[Walsingham]

 

The system's fracture when it comes to police it mostly due to the fact that policemen have crime quotas (which is why they go out of their way to give you a ticket) in order to show that they are dealing with crime they have to make certain number of arrests (so it shouldn't be so surprising that the US is the country with the largest prison population).

 

It is somewhat like a doctor telling you that you don't have cancer but since there is an excess of chemo that they need to get rid off you still have to take it.

 

They don't all have quotas 

 

For instance the department where my cousin (mentioned in the police thread) works only the motorcycle cops have quotas for how many tickets they give because that's pretty much their only function

 

Also, I would say that the war on drugs, three strikes laws, for profit prisons, and a culture that glorifies criminal activity would be much more likely culprits for our ridiculous prison population

 

 

I'm with Shady on all these points, except I'd caveat my objection to three strikes. The problem with is the bar is too low. I personally believe there are career criminals who just need to be out of circulation. But three low grade felonies isn't what I'm talking about.

 

~

 

I missed the comment about the constitution with like buttons, first go round. You should set up a page with that. Could be interesting.

[Orogun01]

The problem with making the constitution like an open forum is that every comment will be something along the lines of :"TL;DR"

[Walsingham]

The problem with making the constitution like an open forum is that every comment will be something along the lines of :"TL;DR"

 

Too amused by this to let out the enormous laugh I can feel boiling away in my humour pit.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Walsingham