Holy Avenger

[FlintlockJazz]

I would like the holy avenger, but due to the changes in the roles of the classes I don't think they should be paladin weapons as the class has been disassociated from the religious holiness side of the things and is now more warlordy. I reckon the holy avenger should be a cleric weapon instead now since clerics are now the holy templar class instead.

Edited June 17, 2013 by FlintlockJazz

[Sarex]

I would like the holy avenger, but due to the changes in the roles of the classes I don't think they should be paladin weapons as the class has been disassociated from the religious holiness side of the things and is now more warlordy. I reckon the holy avenger should be a cleric weapon instead now since clerics are now the holy templar class instead.

 

But THA was never tied to a deity, its creed was "Only the pure of heart can wield me", and in d&d that meant paladins. I don't know I guess I'm biased, because I love paladins and THA. I guess we should wait and see what kind of world this is going to be, and then go from there.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Sarex

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

I would like the holy avenger, but due to the changes in the roles of the classes I don't think they should be paladin weapons as the class has been disassociated from the religious holiness side of the things and is now more warlordy. I reckon the holy avenger should be a cleric weapon instead now since clerics are now the holy templar class instead.

But THA was never tied to a deity, its creed was "Only the pure of heart can wield me", and in d&d that meant paladins. I don't know I guess I'm biased, because I love paladins and THA. I guess we should wait and see what kind of world this is going to be, and then go from there.

Paladins in PE are going to be more like warlords than paladins. They'll each have a cause, but being pure of heart or following a paladin code doesn't appear to be on the cards. Likewise, clerics seem to be different from the usual paradigm, being crusaders instead of priests, and a sword that is called HOLY avenger definitely has divine implications, the line about pure of heart sounds like it could easily refer to someone who is pure on the eyes of god. As paladins in D&D are tied to the gods even when they don't follow one specific god (and in Forgotten Realms I think they did need to be tied to a specific god to get their powers) this is the conclusion I came to. Edited June 17, 2013 by FlintlockJazz

[Sarex]

 

 

I would like the holy avenger, but due to the changes in the roles of the classes I don't think they should be paladin weapons as the class has been disassociated from the religious holiness side of the things and is now more warlordy. I reckon the holy avenger should be a cleric weapon instead now since clerics are now the holy templar class instead.

But THA was never tied to a deity, its creed was "Only the pure of heart can wield me", and in d&d that meant paladins. I don't know I guess I'm biased, because I love paladins and THA. I guess we should wait and see what kind of world this is going to be, and then go from there.

Paladins in PE are going to be more like warlords than paladins. They'll each have a cause, but being pure of heart or following a paladin code doesn't appear to be on the cards. Likewise, clerics seem to be different from the usual paradigm, being crusaders instead of priests, and a sword that is called HOLY avenger definitely has divine implications, the line about pure of heart sounds like it could easily refer to someone who is pure on the eyes of god. As paladins in D&D are tied to the gods even when they don't follow one specific god (and in Forgotten Realms I think they did need to be tied to a specific god to get their powers) this is the conclusion I came to.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not saying you are wrong, just saying what I read about THAs in their description. It's never tied to a god, it's always a tool for the good against evil.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Sarex

[TrashMan]

 

 

 

Ceraa Sumat's description was so badass, that I would have used it even if it was just a +1 sword.

THAT is how you give a sword character.

[Sensuki]

Won't be any (race, class etc) restrictions on items bros, already confirmed multiple tymes.

[Sarex]

Won't be any (race, class etc) restrictions on items bros, already confirmed multiple tymes.

 

What, where? Link?

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

 

 

I would like the holy avenger, but due to the changes in the roles of the classes I don't think they should be paladin weapons as the class has been disassociated from the religious holiness side of the things and is now more warlordy. I reckon the holy avenger should be a cleric weapon instead now since clerics are now the holy templar class instead.

But THA was never tied to a deity, its creed was "Only the pure of heart can wield me", and in d&d that meant paladins. I don't know I guess I'm biased, because I love paladins and THA. I guess we should wait and see what kind of world this is going to be, and then go from there.

Paladins in PE are going to be more like warlords than paladins. They'll each have a cause, but being pure of heart or following a paladin code doesn't appear to be on the cards. Likewise, clerics seem to be different from the usual paradigm, being crusaders instead of priests, and a sword that is called HOLY avenger definitely has divine implications, the line about pure of heart sounds like it could easily refer to someone who is pure on the eyes of god. As paladins in D&D are tied to the gods even when they don't follow one specific god (and in Forgotten Realms I think they did need to be tied to a specific god to get their powers) this is the conclusion I came to.

Yeah, I'm not saying you are wrong, just saying what I read about THAs in their description. It's never tied to a god, it's always a tool for the good against evil.

But then why would it be a paladin class only weapon in PE? There is no good-evil alignment system in PE which is how paladins were defined in D&D as being pure of heart due to their alignment restriction. I'm not disagreeing with you by the way just to be clear, I do want the THA or something like it in the game I'm just trying to work out from what we know of the PE world what would make the most sense lorewise for such a weapon and what it would need to fit with the class(es).

[TrashMan]

A weapon carried for generatiosn by paladins, passed form one to another. Each infused it with a small part of it's essence/soul, and it only accpets those of equal dedication. In other words, the shadows of the paladins past judge you.

[Sarex]

A weapon carried for generatiosn by paladins, passed form one to another. Each infused it with a small part of it's essence/soul, and it only accpets those of equal dedication. In other words, the shadows of the paladins past judge you.

 

Nail/head.

 

But then why would it be a paladin class only weapon in PE? There is no good-evil alignment system in PE which is how paladins were defined in D&D as being pure of heart due to their alignment restriction. I'm not disagreeing with you by the way just to be clear, I do want the THA or something like it in the game I'm just trying to work out from what we know of the PE world what would make the most sense lorewise for such a weapon and what it would need to fit with the class(es).

 

 

TrashMans idea is briliant.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Sarex

[BruceVC]

I'm all for a Paladin class and smiting enemies but they should give you the option that during the game if you start committing evil acts you become corrupted and move from a Paladin to an evil type Paladin class like a Blackguard?

 

That would make it even more exciting

[Nonek]

A weapon carried for generatiosn by paladins, passed form one to another. Each infused it with a small part of it's essence/soul, and it only accpets those of equal dedication. In other words, the shadows of the paladins past judge you.

 

This being an Obsidian game though, one of those old souls will have to be railing against its confinement, crying out for release and asking the protagonist to break the blade asunder. I served righteously throughout life, now let me have my promised rest etcetera.

 

Edit: Indeed what if in other religions the blade is a weapon of evil, standing between souls and their rebirth on the wheel. Be a nice little perplexing situation.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

 

A weapon carried for generatiosn by paladins, passed form one to another. Each infused it with a small part of it's essence/soul, and it only accpets those of equal dedication. In other words, the shadows of the paladins past judge you.

 

This being an Obsidian game though, one of those old souls will have to be railing against its confinement, crying out for release and asking the protagonist to break the blade asunder. I served righteously throughout life, now let me have my promised rest etcetera.

 

Edit: Indeed what if in other religions the blade is a weapon of evil, standing between souls and their rebirth on the wheel. Be a nice little perplexing situation.

 

 

Good ideas

[bonarbill]

Won't be any (race, class etc) restrictions on items bros, already confirmed multiple tymes.

 

That blows if that's true.  I know Josh cares about the balance of the game, but sometimes I think aesthetics should overtake balance to provide interesting gameplay experiences.  I very  much like weapons that have a story and are unique to certain characters, classes, or races.

[JR.9613]

That blows if that's true.  I know Josh cares about the balance of the game, but sometimes I think aesthetics should overtake balance to provide interesting gameplay experiences.  I very  much like weapons that have a story and are unique to certain characters, classes, or races.

 

 

 

    I don't think forced restrictions add character or interesting game play experiences.. 

I made a suggestion in another thread that I think would allow item restrictions (and other restrictions) to be in place IF the player wants them. Being able to choose a restriction or freedom, and having to deal with those consequences throughout the game, is much more interesting to me, and would make it possible to take RP'ing a little bit farther with things like phobias, etc..

 

     Something else I would like to add is that I don't feel that overly powerful "easter egg" items are needed. In most cases they are taken and exploited (I know, it is a single player game, but still...) and it takes away from the fun of the game for me. I know that I don't have to use those items, but being able to obtain Carsomyr so early in BG2, even with the paladin restriction, was too easy-- and then the sword made it that much easier...

Again, that is my opinion, and if it were my choice I wouldn't have it available so early or at the very least a version that is not so powerful.

Edited June 17, 2013 by JR.9613

[TMZuk]

I could not care less.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I would like to see a legendary weapon(s) of the Holy Avenger's caliber, but would prefer it to be class neutral because I think restricting the best weapon(of it's type) in the game to one class is unfair to char enters of other classes who would wield weapons of that type. Now class-exclusive equipment(sets) composed of armor, jewelry, etc. on the other hand I would love to see as long as every class has something of around the same quality.

 

 

Won't be any (race, class etc) restrictions on items bros, already confirmed multiple tymes.

 

 

That blows if that's true.  I know Josh cares about the balance of the game, but sometimes I think aesthetics should overtake balance to provide interesting gameplay experiences.  I very  much like weapons that have a story and are unique to certain characters, classes, or races.

I think that only applies to item types, not specific magical items. For example a wizard would be able to wear full plate and wield a greatsword, but wouldn't be able to equip a barbarian exclusive weapon or put on a fighter exclusive armor.

[Lephys]

I'd just like to point out that, given the nature of soul-power and how it seems to vary in specific function/design as a core part of the various classes in P:E, I think class-specific items (especially of the quite-rare, "magical"/legendary kind) fit even MORE easily into the lore than they necessarily do in other lores.

 

To clarify, in other games, you have to come up with a specific reason as to why that sword doesn't function for a given class, or how it even identifies a wielder's class, but, in P:E, that's pretty much built in with the soul mechanics.

[bonarbill]

 

That blows if that's true.  I know Josh cares about the balance of the game, but sometimes I think aesthetics should overtake balance to provide interesting gameplay experiences.  I very  much like weapons that have a story and are unique to certain characters, classes, or races.

 

 

 

    I don't think forced restrictions add character or interesting game play experiences.. 

 

I admit it does seem forced, but I see nothing wrong with it if it's only on a few items here or there, especially if you have a strong lore reason for it.  For example, in the game "Fire Emblem: Genealogy of Holy war, a character name Shanan from had major Odo holy blood because he was the descendant of the holy warrior Odo. Therefore only he was allowed to wield the legendary sword balmung.  The sword gave him unique power and fit well with his holy ancestry.  

 

Agree that arbitrary restrictions suck, but if there strong lore reason for it, then I don't see anything wrong with unique weapons for certain characters.  THey don't have to be the best weapons in the game, but just merely something personal and interesting that fits the class/character and its lore.  It's no different than NPCs getting unique skills (and since I'm assuming the main character in PE is the "Chosen one", I'm sure he's going to get unique skills in addiction to normal class skills).

Edited June 18, 2013 by bonarbill

[JR.9613]

They don't have to be the best weapons in the game, but just merely something personal and interesting that fits the class/character and its lore.

   

     I agree with that, but in the case of a Holy Avenger it not only is inconsistent with P:E "lore" (no good vs. evil alignment), but may also fall under D&D licensing.

I am not saying that class restricted weapons shouldn't exist, but that there is a better way to implement restrictions in general. I think another problem is that there weren't many other class restricted weapons that were as good as a Holy Avenger (at least in the case of BG2) which made it unbalanced to say the least.

 

     As for the PC being the "Chosen One", I'm not so sure about that...

I recall an update video (I think an early one) talking about how the story is the PC witnessing an event and trying to figure out what he "saw"...

 

Edit: I found it, the video is in Update #3 on the Kickstarter site, but I don't want to post it here since it is kind of off topic.

 

Edited June 18, 2013 by JR.9613

[TrashMan]

 

A weapon carried for generatiosn by paladins, passed form one to another. Each infused it with a small part of it's essence/soul, and it only accpets those of equal dedication. In other words, the shadows of the paladins past judge you.

 

This being an Obsidian game though, one of those old souls will have to be railing against its confinement, crying out for release and asking the protagonist to break the blade asunder. I served righteously throughout life, now let me have my promised rest etcetera.

 

Edit: Indeed what if in other religions the blade is a weapon of evil, standing between souls and their rebirth on the wheel. Be a nice little perplexing situation.

 

 

You COULD do that, but I used the words "small part" and "shadow" for a reason.

 

A tiny part that was left WILLINGLY. An imprint if you will. The "soul" is not really trapped in the sword.

 

You can think of it as the sword being a link to the souls of past paladins - a telephone hotline to heaven if you will.

 

[Sarex]

I would like to see a legendary weapon(s) of the Holy Avenger's caliber, but would prefer it to be class neutral because I think restricting the best weapon(of it's type) in the game to one class is unfair to char enters of other classes who would wield weapons of that type. Now class-exclusive equipment(sets) composed of armor, jewelry, etc. on the other hand I would love to see as long as every class has something of around the same quality.

 

First of THA, wasn't the best sword in either BG2 or ID2, in baldur's gate 2 because it was 2-handed (so you couldn't dual wield) and it was restricted to paladin class, in which you can only put 2 points (out of 5) in to great-sword proficiency, for ID2 the stats where not as impressive.

 

Second the paladin class has the weakest kit in the BG series, so THA kind of offset that by giving them an awesome item.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Sarex

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I would like to see a legendary weapon(s) of the Holy Avenger's caliber, but would prefer it to be class neutral because I think restricting the best weapon(of it's type) in the game to one class is unfair to char enters of other classes who would wield weapons of that type. Now class-exclusive equipment(sets) composed of armor, jewelry, etc. on the other hand I would love to see as long as every class has something of around the same quality.

 

 

1. First of THA, wasn't the best sword in either BG2 or ID2, in baldur's gate 2 because it was 2-handed (so you couldn't dual wield) and it was restricted to paladin class, in which you can only put 2 points (out of 5) in to great-sword proficiency, for ID2 the stats where not as impressive.

 

2. Second the paladin class has the weakest kit in the BG series, so THA kind of offset that by giving them an awesome item.

1. But it was the best weapon of it's type, which was two-handed sword.

 

2. Then then the classes should have been balanced better, which I have no doubt PE will accomplish. Furthermore, I disagree, Inquisitor was the best warrior kit in the game IMO.

[Karkarov]

Weapon restrictions are stupid.  Period.  I don't care how much of a lilly livered sissy finger wiggler you are, you will be able to understand the concept of pick up sword, put pointy end in other guy.

 

Now if you want to make "soul powah!" weapons that don't fully function, or have different effects depending on the soul (class) of who uses them?  That's okay.  But there should be no weapons at all that require X class to use.

[Sarex]

1. But it was the best weapon of it's type, which was two-handed sword.

 

2. Then then the classes should have been balanced better, which I have no doubt PE will accomplish. Furthermore, I disagree, Inquisitor was the best warrior kit in the game IMO.

 

1. I already explained, that you could get much better damage with dual wield. Also the silver sword was a great weapon too. Though if you really wanted to play with it you could always go fighter/thief, get "use any item" ability, and use THA to it's full potential. Also many, if not all, classes have items restricted to them.

 

2.So you are saying BG was a bad game? Where did I mention what is the best in the game?