Want to shoot your Ex? The NRA has a doll for that..

[Walsingham]

 

My point wasn't the pathos. You asked to understand.

 

All right, in that case I do understand. But I personally always worry more about the chance of a weapon in the house doing damage to my family than the extreme off chance that some lunatic breaks in.

 

 

Well, I guess it's a (relatively) high risk that you can directly mitigate versus a low risk which is less controllable. Which means we differ on our respective faith in being able to manage our kids.

 

My kids are entirely imaginary so they're great. Apart from the giraffes.

[Woldan]

 

My point wasn't the pathos. You asked to understand.

 

But I personally always worry more about the chance of a weapon in the house doing damage to my family than the extreme off chance that some lunatic breaks in.

 

 

Then you better get rid of your car, remove all gasoline and lighters you might have stored, remove all knifes and pointy objects and disconnect your house from electricity. If you think a very simple easy to understand mechanical device is too dangerous for you and/or your family the things I mentioned will certainly lead to injury, destruction and death. 

Edited May 16, 2013 by Woldan

[Rosbjerg]

reductio ad absurdum.. I've done all that, I'm connected to the internet with my mind.. (also I don't have a family) while I get the premise of your argument, you however fail to adress that guns serve no practical purpose beyond a defense against what you and yours insist is threatening. I fail to see the actual danger as outweighing the danger of the gun itself. And to counter your veiled insult, if you treat such a deadly device with such reckless abandon, I'm very happy I don't share my living space with you.

[Woldan]

reductio ad absurdum.. I've done all that, I'm connected to the internet with my mind.. (also I don't have a family) while I get the premise of your argument, you however fail to adress that guns serve no practical purpose beyond a defense against what you and yours insist is threatening. I fail to see the actual danger as outweighing the danger of the gun itself.

If you know how to operate a gun and follow the basic rules its impossible to get hurt by your own gun. Common sense is all that is required to reduce the danger to almost 0. However, you can do very little to reduce or control the danger of getting hurt or killed by home intruders, a gun being one of the few things that can definitely help you in such situations. 

 

There is also that situation with the fire extinguisher, its far more likely that you bang your head against a fire extinguisher breaking your nose than that you ever going to need it to extinguish an actual fire. But I bet most people would still want a fire extinguisher in their homes because when you need one you NEED one. 

Edited May 16, 2013 by Woldan

[Rosbjerg]

Luckily it's a free world and luckily for us both we live in a place that agrees with our respective views.. So let's agree to disagree, I don't find any logic in your comparisons or examples and I find your trust in weapons a little worrisome, but it's your life not mine.

[Woldan]

You know, I find people worrisome who judge and condemn things they have never tried, seen (in person) or experienced before. Oh well....

Edited May 16, 2013 by Woldan

[Malcador]

So, have your guns picked out for your killing spree, Woldan ?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

You know, I find people worrisome who judge and condemn things they have never tried, seen (in person) or experienced before. Oh well....

I don't have a problem condemning gang raping 5 year old boys. I have never tried, seen in person, or experienced such a thing.

 

Do you find that worrisome?

[Nepenthe]

While not a veteran, i'm at least a reservist with reasonable arctic light infantry training and obviously deal quite a bit with the nastier side of life in my line of work. And I'm quite ok with not being able to have a rifle, pistol or M72A5 LAW (aka 66 KES 88) around the house.

 

I do have Mace, though. Nothing like it to give the Freedom Fries a little spice. 

[Woldan]

 

You know, I find people worrisome who judge and condemn things they have never tried, seen (in person) or experienced before. Oh well....

I don't have a problem condemning gang raping 5 year old boys. I have never tried, seen in person, or experienced such a thing.

 

Do you find that worrisome?

 

 

No, what I find really worrisome is that you make absurd comparisons like this.  I thought it goes without saying that the philosophy of ''Try it out before judging'' doesn't work with everything, but it certainly works with things like guns or sports. 

 

But you already knew that, so you only said that to annoy me. Why?

Edited May 16, 2013 by Woldan

[Rosbjerg]

 

I thought it goes without saying that the philosophy of ''Try it out before judging'' doesn't work with everything, but it certainly works with things like guns or sports. 

 

 

Hmm, I grew up with shotguns and hunting rifles in our home, I've even been out hunting countless times in my youth.. I've also went with my borther to the shooting range and tried firing pistols.. So there goes your argument I guess.

[Hurlshort]

Guns don't need to be for everyone.  We live in a society where you can go your entire life without touching a firearm.  You don't need to condemn people that don't want to give them a try, any more than they should condemn you for using them responsibly.

[Woldan]

 

 

I thought it goes without saying that the philosophy of ''Try it out before judging'' doesn't work with everything, but it certainly works with things like guns or sports. 

 

 

Hmm, I grew up with shotguns and hunting rifles in our home, I've even been out hunting countless times in my youth.. I've also went with my borther to the shooting range and tried firing pistols.. So there goes your argument I guess.

 

 

 

So, why do you think its unsafe to have firearms in your home again? Did any kind of firearm-related accident happen?

[Rosbjerg]

I've never been in a car accident either, but I always wear a seatbelt.. Your arguments are getting pretty weak.

[Woldan]

I've never been in a car accident either, but I always wear a seatbelt.. Your arguments are getting pretty weak.

 

This comparison would only work if you would not own a car because you were afraid of having an accident. A responsible firearm owner takes equal precautions when he remembers and follows the rules of gun safety. 

[Hurlshort]

Woldan, why is it so important to you that Ros have a gun in his home?  

[Malcador]

Woldan, why is it so important to you that Ros have a gun in his home?

Has he said he wanted such a thing ?

 

Although he treats weapons with reckless abandon, apparently, heh.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Malcador

[ShadySands]

I thought he was arguing against that simply owning a gun made for a more dangerous household

 

I'm not one to talk though as I own 3 and I don't feel any more or less safe

 

I'm also drunk

[Malcador]

This early ?

[Woldan]

Woldan, why is it so important to you that Ros have a gun in his home?  

 

I'm not in the slightest bit interested in that, however, this does not prevent me from being curious about the exact logical reasons why someone thinks that guns are unsafe to have, especially when a good bit of misinformation seems to be involved.

[Hurlshort]

Ros already conceded the idea that they have different beliefs about their households, so I guess I'm just confused why it is still being discussed.  

 

I'm not really sure where the misinformation is.  Guns are dangerous.  You can mitigate the danger, sure, but the decision to keep them in you home (particularly when children are present) should not be taken lightly.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Hurlshot

[Malcador]

Ros already conceded the idea that they have different beliefs about their households, so I guess I'm just confused why it is still being discussed.

Probably the jabs aimed about him being a gun loon or something.

[Woldan]

I'm not really sure where the misinformation is.  Guns are dangerous.  You can mitigate the danger, sure, but the decision to keep them in you home (particularly when children are present) should not be taken lightly.

 

What kind of storage had you in mind when you said ''keep in your home''? Because if the firearm is stored the only proper way - in a safe-  there is no danger at all, for anyone. 

[Hurlshort]

Is that safe ever going to be opened?  

 

Honestly I have an old rifle and my wife's shotgun she used to skeet shoot with sitting in a safe.  There is no ammo, they are both just collecting dust, and I never really go in the safe.  I don't consider myself a gun owner at that point, not in any functional sense.  

 

It is kind of assumed if you are a gun owner that you take the gun out on occasion, maybe for target shooting, maybe just for cleaning.  And that's when accidents can happen.  

 

It's all about risk versus reward for me.  My gas BBQ is not the safest thing to have around my house.  I have to be careful with it.  But I use it to feed my family and so it is worth it.  A hunter can make the same argument about a gun.  But I don't see how you can reasonably argue that it is safe to have firearms in the house.  You are taking a risk, you are doing what you can to mitigate those risks, but they still exist.

[Rosbjerg]

 

I've never been in a car accident either, but I always wear a seatbelt.. Your arguments are getting pretty weak.

 

This comparison would only work if you would not own a car because you were afraid of having an accident. A responsible firearm owner takes equal precautions when he remembers and follows the rules of gun safety. 

 

 

All right, let's see if this gets through.. I don't own a car because it serves no purpose for me to do so, I don't own any weapons because it doesn't serve any meaningful purpose for me. I don't see how it could serve a meaningful purpose - I have a hard time understanding why you seem to think it serves a meaningful purpose. I get that you feel protected, I just don't feel the threat outweighs the risk.. I also get that you don't feel it's a risk, but I think that's being naive. All things considered.

 

This is my argument and nothing more - I have no morals qualms with gun ownership.