Alchemy/ Potion useing in PE

[Ulquiorra]

 

What do you think about alchemy ? Shoud it be clear in use ? Hard ? Complexed ?

 

Im personaly for any type of alchemy ... and what it be simmilar like in skyrim or witcher when it was simple to use ...

 

 

Edited February 7, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[TRX850]

I liked the Craft Alchemy skill in NWN2.  It was complex without being complicated, so it felt like something only a skilled professional could do well.  And any time you recovered alchemical components from vanquished foes (ghoul claws, bat tooth, troll blood etc) it gave the skill a sense of worth, which was something never fully utilized in say, IWD2 for example.

[Tsuga C]

Potions are fine, but I don't expect that their effects will be permanent.  Temporary boosts to this or that or a modest measure of healing or stamina are desirable, but I think we should avoid the equivalent of a D&D "Heal" spell in a bottle.  Our patron deity might bestow such a boon upon us for some great service rendered on behalf of said deity, but such powerful healing tends to make combat drag into a battle of attrition if it becomes too commonplace.

[Fridgemagnet]

From what we've seen of pre-production, I actually don't think HP potions are a good idea. Health seems to be something fairly difficult to recover without resting, I would prefer to have just stamina potions and buffs.

Drugs/Alcohol could add something to the game, as they did in the Fallout series, but I don't see them as a necessity.

Permanent potions are a nice idea, but I prefer other methods of getting a permanent stat increase thematically.

As for explosive/poison potions, they could be fun for a rogue type character, but I just wouldn't end up using them.

[LadyCrimson]

I liked alchemy in MM7 so I'd guess I like more complex types....yet not tooo complex. Being able to mix a potion with another potion to create a 3rd type of potion is kinda fun, tho...if you initially have to discover what potions to mix.

 

I usually like potions for +stat type stuff, and I like them to have durations vs. permanent ... eg, helpful in tough combats. Not necessarily long duration, but more than a second of two. They should not be stackable, and perhaps a limit of 2-3 can be active at once or something.

 

I'm like Fridgemagnet in that I never use explosive type potions (but don't mind if they exist). Explosive/fire aoe ones just seem like grenades, and I don't use those in other games either - probably because I forget about them in the heat of combat. heh.

[Shadenuat]

For once I'd wish they make something clever and utilise mouse controls instead of one-click mixing, maybe like in Might&Magic VI-VII. Oooh, all the colored shiny bottles you put one onto another, to get even more colorful and shiny... ...or explode your whole party.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Shadenuat

[LadyCrimson]

Yeah, something more than mouse-clicking things together would be more interesting. But I still like mixing potions, whatever the method. Mortar pestle clicking isn't exactly much different, either. It's the act of discovery, mostly. I don't like games that give you recipes so you don't have to figure out what's required.

 

Of course, that's assuming alchemy would involve a lot of ingredients and require one to find/buy them. If it's not that type of game-alchemy, then sometimes simple is the way to go. And for some reason, I'm not really picturing PE having a very complex alchemy.

[mcmanusaur]

I find that potions tend to be either able to be completely ignored, a constant annoying nuisance, or a tiresome deus ex machina in the odd combat situation.

Edited February 20, 2013 by mcmanusaur

[ddillon]

No potion popping plz. If there must be potions (...sigh...), then perhaps something like The Witcher.

 

I would like to see nonmagical poisons/poison-making tho.

 

Maybe a few slow regen potions or items for regaining stamina/health, maybe some *rare* magical elixirs... but I'd like to avoid the usual potion spamfest plz. Plz?

Edited February 22, 2013 by ddillon

[Lephys]

What if, instead of a hard quantity restriction, there existed the chance of horrible, horrible effects from mixing too many potions in one's system? That invisibility potion might work fine, but if you down some other potion, you're essentially mixing the ingredients from both in your stomach, right? Well, maybe if you drink more than 2 or 3 potions at one time, you have a high chance of poisoning yourself, or bursting into flame, or some other completely-unwanted-but-not-inherently-bad effect (like becoming ethereal so you can neither affect the physical plane nor be affected by it for some duration).

 

Just make sure it's conveyed that that's how potions work, when the player is introduced to them.

 

Something similar might even work with buffs. *shrug*

Edited February 23, 2013 by Lephys

[TRX850]

Some potion combinations should work in harmony though.

 

Potion of Invisibility and Potion of Master Thievery, for example.  You shouldn't get sick or explode into goo if there's a reasonable link between the two. <-- hey, that rhymed.

 

Potion of Fire Resistance and Potion of Cold Resistance, on the other hand, could cancel each other out, or create a black hole in your stomach, or both.

Edited February 23, 2013 by TRX850

[Lephys]

^ True enough. I was actually trying to avoid the whole "potion combos" thing altogether, and stick to just an interesting quantity limiter. You know, so you don't have to balance the fact that you COULD drink 17 potions at once by making them all relatively weak.

 

Not that it isn't a fun idea, though. I just think that would get really complicated. You'd think it'd make more sense, at that point, to simply create a different hybrid potion via Alchemy, in the first place. You know, a "Master Thief" potion, instead of trying to go around mixing an Invisibility potion and a Silent Steps potion every time you want to be stealthy. That's a few steps away from simply carrying all the ingredients around, and eating them on-demand. "Thistlebranch *nom*, Lizard heart *nom*, Buckberry sap *nom*... *invisible*... YAY!!!". Haha.

 

But, yeah. I just personally wasn't sure how to reign that in. Also, while the EFFECTS of some potions would work great together, my point was that you really don't know what the ingredients would do when all combined together. I mean, ice cream is good, and hot tomato soup is good, but imagine combining them. o_o.

 

Imagine that ingredient A is in the invisibility potion, and ingredient B is in the Silent Steps potion. Ingredients A and B, together, form the base of an incendiary ****tail (grenade-type item). Well, separately, they're just working with their other ingredients. But, together, they set your stomach on fire. *shrug*

 

It would actually be pretty easy to implement, too, because you've already got all the ingredients for the various potions stored in a spreadsheet somewhere. You could even have the character take note of a bad combination after inadvertently achieving it, and/or just have the Alchemy or some form of Lore skill do so. That would help you by flagging certain potions once you had already ingested others. If you drank an Invisibility potion, then that Silent Steps potion gets a big exclamation point on it or something.

 

Problematic potion-mixing... stealing quest-givers' hats since 2013.

 

Also...

Potion of Fire Resistance and Potion of Cold Resistance, on the other hand, could cancel each other out, or create a black hole in your stomach, or both.

... Why's the hole gotta be black?! o_O. Edited February 23, 2013 by Lephys

[TRX850]

Maybe the higher your alchemy skill, the more info/lore you'd have available to you, so if there were certain potions brewed from the same alchemical base ingredients but with subtle and complementary effects, you could "tetris" them together like the invisi-lock example above.  Or other potions brewed with highly opposing/reactive agents, like Haste and Stoneskin, for example, then you'd either know in advance, or make an alchemy check when mousing over a potion in your quick slot while another potion was in effect. And if there was a conflict, it'd tell you in a tool-tip the % chance of a bad reaction occurring, so you could at least weigh up the risks.

[Lephys]

Not a bad idea. I just think you should either be able to tetris them together, or you shouldn't, based on that skill/skills.

 

And as far as the percentages for bad effects go, I feel the best (and maybe only feasible?) way to handle that with percentages is to use a handfull of tiers. Which is, again, why my first thought was for a simple quantity limitation for that. i.e. 2 different potions is always fine (abstracted, I know). 3 potions? 30% chance of something unexpected happening when you drink that 3rd potion (dependent upon the ingredients, which the game would check against all possible potion recipes). 4th potion? Maybe a 75 or 80% chance of something unexpected happening. 5th and on would always be 100%.

 

Basically, as long as that was communicated to the player (the 3rd potion being risky, up to the 5th being guaranteed), I really wouldn't feel bad for any player who keeps chugging potions out the wazz 'cause they're buff-greedy, then going "Aww man, my people keep bursting into flame and dying! T_T"

 

(I'm not saying that's the only way to do it. I just wanted to clarify WHY I thought of that, and the potential problem it addresses of having to assess 700 different potion combinations' individual percentage chances of causing bad things to happen.)

Edited February 23, 2013 by Lephys