Anime - the emotional rolercoaster.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

That hamburger picture was great...courtesy of Usagi, of course. One thing I should specifically note is that for most of my time with the show, I've watched episodes in short bursts. What I mean by this is that I would watch 3 episodes at a time...then not watch any at all for a few days, then another few, then maybe none for an entire week, then another 4. I think if I had watched an episode or two every single day, it probably wouldn't have been as good or fresh, but I kind of spaced things out in a "well, I had a great time, no need to push it any further, I'll get back to it when I want to get back to it and when I can" kind of way...but I know probably most people don't watch things that way, especially if they have time in their day to fill (whereas for me, I'm specifically having to make time that I'm taking away from stuff I want to do or should be doing in order to watch it). For specifically season 1, I would say all but a handful of episodes were really memorable for me (and I think all or almost all of them occurred in like the last third of the season, when things start to get a little more serious - there were some good moments in some of the more serious episodes, but it's very much less my thing compared to the all-out silliness).

I'm still only seven episodes into S, and I will not have much time to watch for probably the next week or two, but I'll try to get a few in at some point here. It's a shame that SuperS sounds so...not great, I hope Sailor Stars ends up being at least a moderate redemptive ending, .

I've been watching at least one every couple of days. I remember and enjoy them most when I watch them in a block of 3 or 4 and then do something else for a while, not necessarily but usually at least a day. I think this works better for me than watching one at a time frequently or a big binge because I'm not overloaded but still can digest several different things at once instead of focusing on a single episode that could be hit or miss.

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I'm still only seven episodes into S, and I will not have much time to watch for probably the next week or two, but I'll try to get a few in at some point here. It's a shame that SuperS sounds so...not great, I hope Sailor Stars ends up being at least a moderate redemptive ending, .

You might be of a different opinion. The episodes certainly a silly enough. Most of the SuperS monsters are beyond silly even.

Spoiler

There's a ballett themed episode where the monster is a nutcracker doll that traps Usagi in a tutu, complains that it's too tight (because she gained weight again ), makes her excercise and then dance by shooting walnuts at her.

I don't like the way the season is structured, the focus on random one-shot characters and...

Spoiler

sidelining the Inner Senshi even worse than in S, with less reason to. Considering Uranus and Neptune were written out to give everyone more screentime that "everyone" ended up being Chibi-Usa and Usagi. But mostly Chibi-Usa. Too much Chibi-Usa.

Plus there's the creepy part.

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, KaineParker said:

I've been watching at least one every couple of days. I remember and enjoy them most when I watch them in a block of 3 or 4 and then do something else for a while, not necessarily but usually at least a day. I think this works better for me than watching one at a time frequently or a big binge because I'm not overloaded but still can digest several different things at once instead of focusing on a single episode that could be hit or miss.

Sounds like you're more or less watching exactly how I watch, then, . Although I think I loved the show more than you are currently - I'll be curious to see if you'll continue with/be able to stick with season 2, since it's a bit different and loses some of the insanity in favor of trying to be more story-focused.

@majesticI'm actually finding myself missing Chibi-Usa. Stockholm syndrome, presumably - but no, it feels like one of the gang is missing. From everything you've said, it sounds like I will lose that feeling as soon as she actually returns, . While it's true that I love insanity and silliness, it should be noted that I generally get a very sharp and negative feeling for things that are decidedly out of place, out of character, or otherwise illogical. The single episode I had an overall negative feeling for so far was S2E16, the Ami-focused episode where there's nothing even particularly bad with it, it's just directed very awkwardly, and characters were acting bizarrely. The show has done an excellent job of straddling the line between things making sense while still being ridiculous - if it goes too far into being ridiculous while sacrificing the story and characters sensibly working within themselves, and from everything you've said S4 does just that, it is almost definitely going to start being a negative experience for me.

So I am indeed expecting the worst for when I get there, as I know myself all too well - the negative parts of something are always a much stronger presence than the positive things for me. Even in my absolute favorite shows, I have always been very quick to criticize and think of things that didn't work quite as well as they should've if things had just been done slightly differently. In that sense, Sailor Moon has been great in that it has almost entirely avoided anything that I would consider to be a major negative (plenty of little things that I can and have forgiven certainly, but nothing major...yet), while pretty consistently highlighting the positive.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

I'm actually finding myself missing Chibi-Usa. Stockholm syndrome, presumably - but no, it feels like one of the gang is missing. From everything you've said, it sounds like I will lose that feeling as soon as she actually returns,

Eh... no, not immediately as soon as she returns. But a bit later probably, yes.

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

So I am indeed expecting the worst for when I get there, as I know myself all too well - the negative parts of something are always a much stronger presence than the positive things for me.

I'm guessing I'll be done with SuperS by the time you're halfway through S. I'm considering to write a guide how to minimize the SuperS "fallout", i.e. a short episode list of episodes with important story moments. This isn't going to be long, because SuperS is mostly filler. Interestingly enough, Sailor Stars is the exact opposite. Almost nothing of that is filler. Out of the 34 episodes of Sailor Stars, only 9 are filler episodes and out of SuperS's 39 episodes, 25 are filler.

Or in other words, whereas SuperS meanders way too much, focuses too much on random stuff, I'm not sure Sailor Star's hyper focus on what you call "serious mode" episodes will be any more enticing for you, although I can't really remember how the balance between silly and serious was in Sailor Stars. But I'll see soon. I hope. I didn't get around to watching as much as I would have liked recently. Too much work going on, that was a good deal easier over Christmas.

My biggest problem with SuperS is, meandering aside, that the girls seem to have ignored their character growth from S in favor of a more regular comedic focus i.e. it feels as if the show tries to be funny in a more classical, jokey way than the more organic "the characters are silly so it's funny" way of R and S. The jokes don't happen because they make sense to be there, they happen because someone wanted a funny scene here. Not sure if that makes any sense?

Eh, we'll see. Sailor Moon wouldn't be the first show to be ruined by later seasons. *cough* X-Files *cough* Although I'm semi-certain that Sailor Stars will be good for me.

Edited February 3, 2021 by majestic

[majestic]

It took 20 episodes but I've finally watched one that I remembered from the original run here. It's another one that is focused on Makoto, but alas, in this season being the focus is... yeah, you guessed it. Rapey vibe time. Poor Makoto.

The entire episode spends time dealing one gut punch to Makoto after the other. Someone one the writing team really hates her, huh? Apparently she makes a good punching bag. But there is a moment in this episode that puts it far ahead of most of SuperS. I'll get to that.

 

Spoiler

 

It begins with Zirconia, the (presumed, later, because there's always a power behind the evil in Sailor Moon, isn't there?) boss of the Dead Moon Circus reviewing the complete failure of her underlings to find Creepasus, who we all know is hiding in Chibi-Usa trying to be a nice, mild mannered pedo-horse that gives sage advice to Chibi-Usa whenever she doesn't understand when grown-ups do what they do.

The Amazon Trio leaves and Tiger's-Eye decides that their strategy is flawed, so he picks up all the remaining rape cards from the table and declares he'll just get them done en masse. Leaving with all the cards in hand, he accidentially drops one - Makoto. Fish-Eye picks her up.

Makoto and the gang on the other hand have great fun getting ready for a multi-day college festival that they will go to with Mamoru, Motoki and Unazuki, and one of the main attractions is a dance party at the gymnasium that will be later today. Makoto wonders for a bit if her dress isn't too gaudy, then they're off.

Almost everyone is shown dancing and being happy, Mamoru and Usagi dance with Chibi-Usa, Rei and Minako are somewhere in the crowd... but nobody wants to dance with Makoto. Ami goes to her and wonders why she's not looking too happy to which Makoto replies: "Nobody's wants to dance with someone as tall as me." Ami smiles and asks Makoto to dance with her, so they start. Much like that episode where Makoto turns out to be a ice skating queen she also turns out to be a really good dancer.

Which of course is a weird counterposition to the fact that she clumsily stumbled through the earlier ballet themed episode trying to perform even the simplest ballett dance steps. But such is the unevenness of SuperS.

At any rate, it pays off to remember that the girls were, in a former life, princesses of their respective guardian planets. Makoto having the ballroom grace of a queen makes perfect sense in this context. Tiger's-Eye comes along and is clearly impressed with Makoto, and unlike all the other boys on the dance floor is taller than her. He quickly checks his cards, notices that Makoto is not on them, but asks her for a dance anyway, simply because she's the best dancer in the room and will help him attract his actual victims.

Once they're done, all the girls rush towards Tiger's-Eye and ask him for the next dance. Makoto who at this point has clearly fallen for Tiger's-Eye (man, really writers, why? ) does so too. Tiger's-Eye tells her to wait for him because he already promised the other girls to dance with them. They disappear off-screen. Makoto, ever the dutiful and nothing if not determined simply waits for him.

Meanwhile the other girls and Mamo-Chan are off having a snack, talking about how Makoto is still waiting and that Chibi-Usa went to get her. Cut to Chibi-Usa and Makoto talking when Tiger's-Eye shows up, another group of girls in hand. Makoto talks to him and he initially tries to rebuff her, but Chibi-Usa chides him for being rude when there's no need to (Chibi-Usa getting to do something that's not antagonizing Usagi in some way is really refreshing). Tiger's-Eye has an inner monologue about how he has no time for a girl not on his cards, but smiles and tells her to wait a bit longer.

Mako-Chan for some reason takes this as reaffirmation, given the amount of girls he went through he clearly remembered her. Yeah. He did. Because he's really, really wishing you'd be on his rape list, but then again, she can't know that. Chibi-Usa is confused and goes to talk to pedo-horse about it, who tells her that sometimes for emotions time is not a factor and one can fall in love immediately. Chibi-Usa immediately thinks back to her first meeting with Creepasus where she took one quick peek at his... horn and immediately fell in love too. Man... go away pedo-horse, go away.

Meanwhile Usagi is talking to the other girls on the phone because none of them can reach Makoto and she's apparently still not at home, it's in the middle of the night and it is raining. Mamo-Chan picks her and Chibi-Usa up and brings her to the college gymnasium where they find Mako-Chan sitting on the stairs, still waiting. Usagi immediately runs to her and asks why she's still waiting.

Makoto tells her that she doesn't want to regret not having waited later in her life. She tells Usagi a bit about her dreams and wants to wait some more. Maybe he'll show up yet. Minako, Rei and Ami show up too, they give Makoto what looks like a terrycloth towel (I assume it is a towel, because in the next scene she's not wearing it, so it's not a sweater or a vest or something). Mako-Chan says "Hey you guys" and Rei walks up to her...

...and this is where we'll take a quick break. It's Rei we're talking about here. In every other TV show, cartoon, or anime on the planet she'd probably slap Makoto silly and tell her to get some self respect, b*tch, and tell her what they all know anyway: He ain't coming back, so go home.

And yet, this is Sailor Moon, and in what is probably one of the sweetest displays of friendship ever on TV, Rei just smiles and says "We'll keep you company" and Usagi tells her that it'll be fun sitting outside all night, talking. Mamoru takes Chibi-Usa home and leaves the girls alone, and I'm wondering if this is the first time the writers were actually writing an episode themselves instead of having aliens from Deneb ghost-write.

We see a puddle of water, it stops raining and the sun rises. Hawk's-Eye spies Fish-Eye winning a beauty pageant and complains about his presence in his operation. Fish-Eye gives Tiger's-Eye Makoto's picture. Because, let's not forget, she still needs her dream mirror penetrated. Usagi has, in the meantime, picked up Chibi-Usa and is carrying some food for Makoto and the girls. She sees Fish-Eye and Tiger's-Eye talking about the amount of women he "danced" with yesterday, Usagi gets mad as hell, but they both leave before she can confront them.

Cut to Tiger's-Eye walking up to Makoto. She's happy to see him and tells him that she's glad that he came back. He gives her a cursory line about how he'd be stupid to let a girl like her slip through his fingers. He tells the lie casually, but he's actually impressed by Makoto at this point and it clearly affected him more than he wanted to. He hesitates, which makes Fish-Eye jump out and trap Makoto, brining out her Dream Mirror. He also traps Ami, Rei and Minako just to make sure that they don't get to be useful and tells Tiger's-Eye to stop fooling around.

Makoto is distraught finding out that her princely dance partner is one of their enemies.

Makoto finds out that her "Prince" is in reality dream rapist #1: Tiger's-Eye

She... refuses to believe it at first. But then she realizes it's true...

Yeah, someone on the writing team really hates her. None of the other girl's Dream Mirror sequences were this gut-wrenching (neither for the viewers, nor for the girls).

He tells her that she has only herself to blame for trusting him in the first place. The fleeting moment where he reconsidered is gone. He walks up to her, and she still can't quite believe it.

I feel like starting Baldur's Gate 2 so I can brutally murder Haer'Dalis, which is the next best thing that I could do right now.

But he's got a job to do, so...

So, you thought I was perhaps overstating just how creepy this season is when it's not utterly infantile? Think again. Seeing this as still frame is even worse.

Usagi comes to the rescue, but the monster of the week proves a bit too strong for her alone. Tiger's-Eye and Fish-Eye retreat, freeing Makoto, who promptly channles her anger into one giant ass Super Supreme Thunder. Cue unecessarily long dual Chibi-Moon/Sailor Moon attack animation, and the day is saved. Kind of.

Makoto, having been brutally slapped out of her dreams, takes one last look at the dancefloor and muses to herself that she was mostly infatuated with being the center of attention, in a place were people would make room for her for once. Coping mechanism? Probably, but the girls don't say anything. They just leave her alone.

Unazuki shows up and tells everyone that someone else's school has another dance party coming up and if they would like to join her. Usagi, Minako, Ami and Rei look a bit put out, and yeah, understandably so, but Unazuki doesn't know what happened. Makoto on the other hand loves the idea. Cue collective anime facepalm.

So yeah, that was the episode. It took something like 20 episodes and the dream mirror rape of Ami, Minako and Rei to finally make something worthwhile (if utterly vile) out of this. Apart from the one joke at the end this episode obviously lacks the funny that usually dominates SuperS even to its detriment. Usagi isn't even completely immature, but the character she should be after Sailor Moon S.

Anyway, I loved the scene where everone shows up and is all supportive instead of telling her off, to go home or show some self-respect, as if it was her fault for waiting. It's not, is it? I mean it is obviously correct that Makoto should have had the good sense to leave earlier. She should have some self-respect. She probably even knows that herself. She doesn't. For all her tallness she's still just 15, and she's still he girl nobody wanted to dance with. Not even after she danced with Tiger's-Eye (all the girls wanted a slice of Tiger's-Eye but nobody approached her for a dance).

Telling her to show some self-respect in that situation not only doesn't help, it shifts the blame towards her instead of where it belongs, with the creep that stood her up.

Spoiler

 

There's something else about the overall plot that I haven't mentioned yet: The three f*cks actually get a happy ending. When they inevitably end up being betrayed by Zirconia and are chased out of the Dead Moon Circus Creepasus turns them into actual humans with dreams of their own instead of simply transfigured animals and allows them to live on in Elysion, the land of Dreams.

Yeah, Nephrite and Saphir had to die, but these three creeps... man, really. Gah.

 

 

edit:

It took an hour and a half to come up with the post. I'm not sure I'll go into that much detail again anytime soon. Ho-humm. It's 03:30... geez.

Edited February 4, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

6 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Sounds like you're more or less watching exactly how I watch, then, . Although I think I loved the show more than you are currently - I'll be curious to see if you'll continue with/be able to stick with season 2, since it's a bit different and loses some of the insanity in favor of trying to be more story-focused.

Pretty much, but generally my breaks seem to be shorter. In general I'm trying to rotate my tv/movie watching to where I'm not focusing on one thing at a time after having some success doing that with books. Maybe it'll work, maybe it'll drive me to insanity.

I'd like it to be more story focused right now tbh. Right now it reminds me of a bat**** monster of the week show, something like Buffy but actually good. Biggest flaw for me is the lack of interesting villains, right now none of them are particularly interesting or memorable. The only ones who stick out to me are the boxing monster (lovely punch! I am the champion) and Jadeite (mostly for the very negative reason of an age inappropriate relationship with Usagi's best normal friend), the others are usually forgettable and get overshadowed by one-off side characters. I think more story focus might help with that.

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

It took 20 episodes but I've finally watched one that I remembered from the original run here. It's another one that is focused on Makoto, but alas, in this season being the focus is... yeah, you guessed it. Rapey vibe time. Poor Makoto.

The entire episode spends time dealing one gut punch to Makoto after the other. Someone one the writing team really hates her, huh? Apparently she makes a good punching bag. But there is a moment in this episode that puts it far ahead of most of SuperS. I'll get to that.

 

  Hide contents

 

It begins with Zirconia, the (presumed, later, because there's always a power behind the evil in Sailor Moon, isn't there?) boss of the Dead Moon Circus reviewing the complete failure of her underlings to find Creepasus, who we all know is hiding in Chibi-Usa trying to be a nice, mild mannered pedo-horse that gives sage advice to Chibi-Usa whenever she doesn't understand when grown-ups do what they do.

The Amazon Trio leaves and Tiger's-Eye decides that their strategy is flawed, so he picks up all the remaining rape cards from the table and declares he'll just get them done en masse. Leaving with all the cards in hand, he accidentially drops one - Makoto. Fish-Eye picks her up.

Makoto and the gang on the other hand have great fun getting ready for a multi-day college festival that they will go to with Mamoru, Motoki and Unazuki, and one of the main attractions is a dance party at the gymnasium that will be later today. Makoto wonders for a bit if her dress isn't too gaudy, then they're off.

Almost everyone is shown dancing and being happy, Mamoru and Usagi dance with Chibi-Usa, Rei and Minako are somewhere in the crowd... but nobody wants to dance with Makoto. Ami goes to her and wonders why she's not looking too happy to which Makoto replies: "Nobody's wants to dance with someone as tall as me." Ami smiles and asks Makoto to dance with her, so they start. Much like that episode where Makoto turns out to be a ice skating queen she also turns out to be a really good dancer.

Which of course is a weird counterposition to the fact that she clumsily stumbled through the earlier ballet themed episode trying to perform even the simplest ballett dance steps. But such is the unevenness of SuperS.

At any rate, it pays off to remember that the girls were, in a former life, princesses of their respective guardian planets. Makoto having the ballroom grace of a queen makes perfect sense in this context. Tiger's-Eye comes along and is clearly impressed with Makoto, and unlike all the other boys on the dance floor is taller than her. He quickly checks his cards, notices that Makoto is not on them, but asks her for a dance anyway, simply because she's the best dancer in the room and will help him attract his actual victims.

Once they're done, all the girls rush towards Tiger's-Eye and ask him for the next dance. Makoto who at this point has clearly fallen for Tiger's-Eye (man, really writers, why? ) does so too. Tiger's-Eye tells her to wait for him because he already promised the other girls to dance with them. They disappear off-screen. Makoto, ever the dutiful and nothing if not determined simply waits for him.

Meanwhile the other girls and Mamo-Chan are off having a snack, talking about how Makoto is still waiting and that Chibi-Usa went to get her. Cut to Chibi-Usa and Makoto talking when Tiger's-Eye shows up, another group of girls in hand. Makoto talks to him and he initially tries to rebuff her, but Chibi-Usa chides him for being rude when there's no need to (Chibi-Usa getting to do something that's not antagonizing Usagi in some way is really refreshing). Tiger's-Eye has an inner monologue about how he has no time for a girl not on his cards, but smiles and tells her to wait a bit longer.

Mako-Chan for some reason takes this as reaffirmation, given the amount of girls he went through he clearly remembered her. Yeah. He did. Because he's really, really wishing you'd be on his rape list, but then again, she can't know that. Chibi-Usa is confused and goes to talk to pedo-horse about it, who tells her that sometimes for emotions time is not a factor and one can fall in love immediately. Chibi-Usa immediately thinks back to her first meeting with Creepasus where she took one quick peek at his... horn and immediately fell in love too. Man... go away pedo-horse, go away.

Meanwhile Usagi is talking to the other girls on the phone because none of them can reach Makoto and she's apparently still not at home, it's in the middle of the night and it is raining. Mamo-Chan picks her and Chibi-Usa up and brings her to the college gymnasium where they find Mako-Chan sitting on the stairs, still waiting. Usagi immediately runs to her and asks why she's still waiting.

Makoto tells her that she doesn't want to regret not having waited later in her life. She tells Usagi a bit about her dreams and wants to wait some more. Maybe he'll show up yet. Minako, Rei and Ami show up too, they give Makoto what looks like a terrycloth towel (I assume it is a towel, because in the next scene she's not wearing it, so it's not a sweater or a vest or something). Mako-Chan says "Hey you guys" and Rei walks up to her...

...and this is where we'll take a quick break. It's Rei we're talking about here. In every other TV show, cartoon, or anime on the planet she'd probably slap Makoto silly and tell her to get some self respect, b*tch, and tell her what they all know anyway: He ain't coming back, so go home.

And yet, this is Sailor Moon, and in what is probably one of the sweetest displays of friendship ever on TV, Rei just smiles and says "We'll keep you company" and Usagi tells her that it'll be fun sitting outside all night, talking. Mamoru takes Chibi-Usa home and leaves the girls alone, and I'm wondering if this is the first time the writers were actually writing an episode themselves instead of having aliens from Deneb ghost-write.

We see a puddle of water, it stops raining and the sun rises. Hawk's-Eye spies Fish-Eye winning a beauty pageant and complains about his presence in his operation. Fish-Eye gives Tiger's-Eye Makoto's picture. Because, let's not forget, she still needs her dream mirror penetrated. Usagi has, in the meantime, picked up Chibi-Usa and is carrying some food for Makoto and the girls. She sees Fish-Eye and Tiger's-Eye talking about the amount of women he "danced" with yesterday, Usagi gets mad as hell, but they both leave before she can confront them.

Cut to Tiger's-Eye walking up to Makoto. She's happy to see him and tells him that she's glad that he came back. He gives her a cursory line about how he'd be stupid to let a girl like her slip through his fingers. He tells the lie casually, but he's actually impressed by Makoto at this point and it clearly affected him more than he wanted to. He hesitates, which makes Fish-Eye jump out and trap Makoto, brining out her Dream Mirror. He also traps Ami, Rei and Minako just to make sure that they don't get to be useful and tells Tiger's-Eye to stop fooling around.

Makoto is distraught finding out that her princely dance partner is one of their enemies.

Makoto finds out that her "Prince" is in reality dream rapist #1: Tiger's-Eye

She... refuses to believe it at first. But then she realizes it's true...

Yeah, someone on the writing team really hates her. None of the other girl's Dream Mirror sequences were this gut-wrenching (neither for the viewers, nor for the girls).

He tells her that she has only herself to blame for trusting him in the first place. The fleeting moment where he reconsidered is gone. He walks up to her, and she still can't quite believe it.

I feel like starting Baldur's Gate 2 so I can brutally murder Haer'Dalis, which is the next best thing that I could do right now.

But he's got a job to do, so...

So, you thought I was perhaps overstating just how creepy this season is when it's not utterly infantile? Think again. Seeing this as still frame is even worse.

Usagi comes to the rescue, but the monster of the week proves a bit too strong for her alone. Tiger's-Eye and Fish-Eye retreat, freeing Makoto, who promptly channles her anger into one giant ass Super Supreme Thunder. Cue unecessarily long dual Chibi-Moon/Sailor Moon attack animation, and the day is saved. Kind of.

Makoto, having been brutally slapped out of her dreams, takes one last look at the dancefloor and muses to herself that she was mostly infatuated with being the center of attention, in a place were people would make room for her for once. Coping mechanism? Probably, but the girls don't say anything. They just leave her alone.

Unazuki shows up and tells everyone that someone else's school has another dance party coming up and if they would like to join her. Usagi, Minako, Ami and Rei look a bit put out, and yeah, understandably so, but Unazuki doesn't know what happened. Makoto on the other hand loves the idea. Cue collective anime facepalm.

So yeah, that was the episode. It took something like 20 episodes and the dream mirror rape of Ami, Minako and Rei to finally make something worthwhile (if utterly vile) out of this. Apart from the one joke at the end this episode obviously lacks the funny that usually dominates SuperS even to its detriment. Usagi isn't even completely immature, but the character she should be after Sailor Moon S.

Anyway, I loved the scene where everone shows up and is all supportive instead of telling her off, to go home or show some self-respect, as if it was her fault for waiting. It's not, is it? I mean it is obviously correct that Makoto should have had the good sense to leave earlier. She should have some self-respect. She probably even knows that herself. She doesn't. For all her tallness she's still just 15, and she's still he girl nobody wanted to dance with. Not even after she danced with Tiger's-Eye (all the girls wanted a slice of Tiger's-Eye but nobody approached her for a dance).

Telling her to show some self-respect in that situation not only doesn't help, it shifts the blame towards her instead of where it belongs, with the creep that stood her up.

  Hide contents

 

There's something else about the overall plot that I haven't mentioned yet: The three f*cks actually get a happy ending. When they inevitably end up being betrayed by Zirconia and are chased out of the Dead Moon Circus Creepasus turns them into actual humans with dreams of their own instead of simply transfigured animals and allows them to live on in Elysion, the land of Dreams.

Yeah, Nephrite and Saphir had to die, but these three creeps... man, really. Gah.

 

 

edit:

It took an hour and a half to come up with the post. I'm not sure I'll go into that much detail again anytime soon. Ho-humm. It's 03:30... geez.

From your description of the episode, you would almost think this is some kind of dark psychological thriller, and not lovey-dovey silly Sailor Moon. This season sounds so messed up, .

Will appreciate the guide on SuperS. It at least helps to know what's dumb in advance as opposed to reacting as it's happening and getting upset. In regards to characters not behaving like they should, it totally makes sense - it's a problem I've seen other cartoons have when they go on for too long with no good fresh ideas, new writers come in and start writing plots and characters as if they were from 2-3 seasons ago before major things and character growth happened. Although according to you, it's the same people from the previous seasons, so that makes it all the more bizarre.

@KaineParker The boxing monster was indeed hilarious. The monster of the week thing (which is predominantly what drives them to fight) is indeed probably the weakest part of the show, and I've said it before that I would've been perfectly good with an episode here and there where there...just isn't any fighting at all (there are *plenty* of ways in which the Sailor Guardians could resolve conflicts, both supernatural and not, that the show could've revolved episodes around that didn't involve fighting...the show insists on sticking to its guns for the most part though). There are just too many randos generated at the beginning of episodes that you just *know* are going to get dusted by the end of it.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

51 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

The boxing monster was indeed hilarious. The monster of the week thing (which is predominantly what drives them to fight) is indeed probably the weakest part of the show, and I've said it before that I would've been perfectly good with an episode here and there where there...just isn't any fighting at all (there are *plenty* of ways in which the Sailor Guardians could resolve conflicts, both supernatural and not, that the show could've revolved episodes around that didn't involve fighting...the show insists on sticking to its guns for the most part though). There are just too many randos generated at the beginning of episodes that you just *know* are going to get dusted by the end of it.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with monster of the week if they did something besides the same named attacks everytime. Beat them up, defeat them at gambling, trick them, solve their deep seated issues, or whatever isn't the tiara toss.

And something else, the Dark Kingdom is dumb as ****. Like how do they not figure out who the Sailors are? They show up to like every scheme and look the same normal and transformed.

Edited February 4, 2021 by KaineParker

[Bartimaeus]

Definitely agree that a variety of different methods would've been much better.

Somehow, the Sailor Guardians are just as dumb in the same exact way. Superhero costumes, man - somehow, they work (almost) every time.

[HoonDing]

im not sure about anime but i got Initial D soundtrack on loop during corona telework

 

[Bartimaeus]

I always associate terrible things with Initial D because over a decade ago, I was an admin on a specific-game related forum where one of the moderators had the name "initialD", and he ending up going completely nuts over something really silly (don't remember exactly what, something pride-related), and we spent like a month trying to repair things, eventually gave up and removed him from the staff team, which only made him even more mad and we ended up banning him after non-stop infractions. I tell this story anytime anybody brings up Initial D. No, I don't have any idea what Initial D actually is, and I'm not going to find out.

[majestic]

7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Although according to you, it's the same people from the previous seasons, so that makes it all the more bizarre.

Yes, according to me, who has checked some single episodes and saw familiar names in the credits. Turns out I wasn't entirely correct. SuperS actually featured three new writers, while between Sailor Moon, R and S the only change was adding one (!) writer, not replacing any.

Writing credits:

Sailor Moon

• Sukehiro Tomita
• Shigeru Yanagikawa
• Katsuyuki Sumisawa
• Megumi Sugihara

Sailor Moon R

• Sukehiro Tomita
• Shigeru Yanagawa
• Katsuyuki Sumisawa
• Megumi Sugihara

Sailor Moon S

• Sukehiro Tomita
• Shigeru Yanagawa
• Katsuyuki Sumisawa
• Megumi Sugihara
• Yoji Enokido

Sailor Moon SuperS

• Megumi Sugihara
• Yoji Enokido
• Ryota Yamaguchi
• Genki Yoshimura
• Mutsuri Nakano

Sailor Moon Sailor Stars

• Ryōta Yamaguchi
• Genki Yoshimura
• Kazuhiko Kanbe
• Atsushi Maekawa

The misconception of mine that Sailor Moon SuperS had largely the same writing team came from simply recognizing Megumi Sugihara and Yoji Enokido on the writing credits of the episodes I checked. Yoji Enokido is a new writer from S that stayed on. As far as I know he was also a writer on NGE, and most of his contribution to Sailor Moon S were pure manga storyline adaptations (but let's call them Serious Mode Episodes, I like that term ).

So, remember when I complained about Usagi being mature and secure about her relationship with Mamoru but two episodes later went on an all out jealous rage? Guess those were the new writers, eh?

Nope. That was Yoji Enokido and Megumi Sugihara. The other thing that colored my perception there was the fact that the two of them wrote over half of the episodes of SuperS. So whatever went wrong in SuperS wasn't just the new guys.

Were they at least at fault for the weird focus of the filler episodes' attacked character of the week? 

Well... no. They're spread across all writers, but most of the episodes that don't have such a weird hyperfocus were written by Ryōta Yamaguchi. He apparently got the enviable task of setting up most of the girl's dream mirror violations (except for Rei, who gets that in the episode where Usagi acts like season 1 Usagi for the fun of it, written by Megumi Sugihara).

But yeah, there might have been more writing problems in this season than I thought. It's an easy mistake to make when you see a familiar name every other episode, right?

The Makoto gut punch psycho-horror episode was therefore also written by Ryōta Yamaguchi who... has written a LOT of Sailor Stars episodes. Like half of them.

Edited February 4, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

Heh, it can be interesting to pay attention to who writes what in a series like this. Sometimes things are completely seamless and you wouldn't even think to check who did what, much less be able to recognize one writer's work from the next...and then other shows, there are such mountainous drops and climbs in quality between consecutive episodes that it surely cannot be coincidence. What's amazing is if for a show like Adventure Time, that I, a relatively casual watcher and nothing approaching like a superfan or anything of that nature, can recognize that there's something seriously wrong with the quality output of a few specific writers, how the heck don't the people in charge of a show? There are episodes in that show where I *hate* my favorite characters because of how utterly bizarre and out-of-character they're acting. You'd think there'd be someone down the line during production that would tell somebody else, "Hey, uh...I don't think main character X should really be acting like a bipolar paranoid schizophrenic for no real explainable reason, maybe we should rethink this?". Nah, it's all cool, just roll with it. Get these hack fraud bozos off of my show, please, and pay the other people who aren't cheats and swindlers more money to write more, please.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

You'd think there'd be someone down the line during production that would tell somebody else, "Hey, uh...I don't think main character X should really be acting like a bipolar paranoid schizophrenic for no real explainable reason, maybe we should rethink this?". Nah, it's all cool, just roll with it. Get these hack fraud bozos off of my show, please, and pay the other people who aren't cheats and swindlers more money to write more, please.

I wonder that more and more these days. More often than not when watching Star Trek episodes, I mean there must be someone at the creative meetings that realizes that it is utter and complete baloney what they're writing. Is there really no one around that says "Hey, guys, really, this is wrong, can we not do that?" in any of the meetings.

Or like the actors. I don't know. There is more than one instance of Star Trek Discovery where they don't bat an eye saying their lines even when they're full of grammatical mistakes. I mean, what? How does that get through proofreading.

The issues with SuperS are arguably more problematic. It's not out of character for Usagi to fly into a jealous rage over Rei and Mamoru spending time together. In season 1. Maybe early R. But after S? No way. I mean Mr. Serious Mode Episode knew that and acted accordingly, it's just so weird to see someone who is on the team ever since season 1 do something like that (it also doesn't help that it is probably the funniest episode in the season as a whole, it's really laugh out loud stuff, just out of place).

Edited February 4, 2021 by majestic

[Malcador]

6 hours ago, HoonDing said:

im not sure about anime but i got Initial D soundtrack on loop during corona telework

 

Redline has good tracks.  Well for maximum gino beats

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Malcador

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

I wonder that more and more these days. More often than not when watching Star Trek episodes, I mean there must be someone at the creative meetings that realizes that it is utter and complete baloney what they're writing. Is there really no one around that says "Hey, guys, really, this is wrong, can we not do that?" in any of the meetings.

Or like the actors. I don't know. There is more than one instance of Star Trek Discovery where they don't bat an eye saying their lines even when they're full of grammatical mistakes. I mean, what? How does that get through proofreading.

The issues with SuperS are arguably more problematic. It's not out of character for Usagi to fly into a jealous rage over Rei and Mamoru spending time together. In season 1. Maybe early R. But after S? No way. I mean Mr. Serious Mode Episode knew that and acted accordingly, it's just so weird to see someone who is on the team ever since season 1 do something like that (it also doesn't help that it is probably the funniest episode in the season as a whole, it's really laugh out loud stuff, just out of place).

Yeah. I won't be happy to see it.

Just watched episode 8, the Ami episode. It was a really good one, and spent almost all of the episode on good character stuff...and then the monster that appeared at the last second was hilarious and a little more characterized than normal (and also dealt with very quickly to give the episode a nice ending).

(e): I actually tried to watch Redline some time back. I, uh, don't think male-focused (i.e. power fantasy) anime racing stuff is for me, suffice to say, .

Edited February 4, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Just watched episode 8, the Ami episode. It was a really good one, and spent almost all of the episode on good character stuff...and then the monster that appeared at the last second was hilarious and a little more characterized than normal (and also dealt with very quickly to give the episode a nice ending).

It was a really good idea having the cousins around to act as both impetus and goal for character growth, both in real and superhero life.
 

Spoiler

 

Usagi trying to he supportive in this episode and it backfiring in a way that was both tragic and hilarious was one of the high points of Sailor Moon S, and she immediately noticed that something she said hurt Ami while the others were still wondering how Ami of all people could forget something needed for their study group. Everything in this scene makes sense, from Usagi's heartfelt attempt at helping her friend, to the other girl's being weirded out by the exchange (as they lack the context to interpret it correctly) back to being put out by Usagi's enthusiasm only lasting for a couple of seconds because they didn't see Ami cry.

And the scene before where Mamoru talks to Ami and she tells him that she envies Usagi because she has a lot of dreams and hopes for the future, instead of just one focus that seems to be drowning out her life that ends with Mamoru saying that Usagi sure has "more than an average amount of dreams" (combined with that look, priceless) and admitting his fear of getting shots to make her laugh. 

Ami being stuck in this ridiculous and demeaning pose while having her heart crystal ripped out through her back, combined with the use of the Heart Locket slow piano version of the theme song, Sailor Moon spilling her heart out, Ami silently crying being stuck to the window. Eh.

Heh, after the fight when Ami thanks Sailor Moon for helping her get over her slump and Usagi of course having no idea what she did (I mean, other than reaffirm Ami's belief in their friendship, you silly girl) and the ending where she playfully teases that she will try to do everything with all she has from now on, she might as well try and take Mamoru for herself, more silly than anything (both on her and Usagi's part).

Oh, and Haruka and Michiru's interactions in this one again foreshadow that they're not really going to have it in them to be cold enough to let the bearer of the talismans die, doesn't it? At least I thought so.

Care to guess who wrote that episode?

Spoiler

Megumi Sugihara, naturally. What the hell went wrong in SuperS?

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by majestic

[HoonDing]

[Malcador]

Pft, that Jupiter trying to cheat with heels.

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

It was a really good idea having the cousins around to act as both impetus and goal for character growth, both in real and superhero life.
 

  Hide contents

 

Usagi trying to he supportive in this episode and it backfiring in a way that was both tragic and hilarious was one of the high points of Sailor Moon S, and she immediately noticed that something she said hurt Ami while the others were still wondering how Ami of all people could forget something needed for their study group. Everything in this scene makes sense, from Usagi's heartfelt attempt at helping her friend, to the other girl's being weirded out by the exchange (as they lack the context to interpret it correctly) back to being put out by Usagi's enthusiasm only lasting for a couple of seconds because they didn't see Ami cry.

And the scene before where Mamoru talks to Ami and she tells him that she envies Usagi because she has a lot of dreams and hopes for the future, instead of just one focus that seems to be drowning out her life that ends with Mamoru saying that Usagi sure has "more than an average amount of dreams" (combined with that look, priceless) and admitting his fear of getting shots to make her laugh. 

Ami being stuck in this ridiculous and demeaning pose while having her heart crystal ripped out through her back, combined with the use of the Heart Locket slow piano version of the theme song, Sailor Moon spilling her heart out, Ami silently crying being stuck to the window. Eh.

Heh, after the fight when Ami thanks Sailor Moon for helping her get over her slump and Usagi of course having no idea what she did (I mean, other than reaffirm Ami's belief in their friendship, you silly girl) and the ending where she playfully teases that she will try to do everything with all she has from now on, she might as well try and take Mamoru for herself, more silly than anything (both on her and Usagi's part).

Oh, and Haruka and Michiru's interactions in this one again foreshadow that they're not really going to have it in them to be cold enough to let the bearer of the talismans die, doesn't it? At least I thought so.

Care to guess who wrote that episode?

  Hide contents

Megumi Sugihara, naturally. What the hell went wrong in SuperS?

 

 

Spoiler

Ami when she was having her heart ripped out did look very odd. At first, I thought she was stuck up against the window, but at some point she slumps over straight through what I thought was the window she was leaning up against, so it was all weird and visually confusing to me. For a show that was supposed to be for girls, I do unfortunately feel there has been a little bit of an issue with exploiting male gaze - the only saving grace here is that most of it has been at the expense of villains rather than our teenaged heroes...which makes the few that do all the more out of place-feeling. Japan does not have the best history of respecting girls and women, unfortunately (not that anywhere else is necessarily better, mind you, but...). The worst that I can remember was actually early into season 1, somewhere between the tenth and fifteenth episode I want to say, where Usagi fell over for some reason or another and the camera should have shifted away to a different shot or frames should have been stylistically skipped in her animation as they often do for showing characters falling down...or something, but just didn't for some reason. Being outrageous with random villain designs and stuff is one thing, having a character be placed in a terrible situation where you're supposed to fear for them or experience horror at something that's happening to them is another, but casually exploiting your lovable protagonist characters without even a pause should really never be a thing. From what you've said, it would seem to get at least figuratively get a lot worse in S4.

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

48 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Spoiler

For a show that was supposed to be for girls, I do unfortunately feel there has been a little bit of an issue with exploiting male gaze - the only saving grace here is that most of it has been at the expense of villains rather than our teenaged heroes...which makes the few that do all the more out of place-feeling. Japan does not have the best history of respecting girls and women, unfortunately (not that anywhere else is necessarily better, mind you, but...).

 

Spoiler

 

Your sentiments echo the sentiments of Naoko Takeuchi by the way, who thought Sailor Moon was animated with a little too much male perspective in mind. I can see that. They tried to avoid some of it in Sailor Moon, but somewhere in R they stopped to bother cutting scenes in a way that would prevent them from having to draw the Sailor Guardian's underwear (it's mostly short scenes of Sailor Mars jumping when it happens in Sailor Moon and your mentioned Usagi falling over prior to R).

I mean, yeah, it does come with the territory of fighting in super short mini skirts - which themselves come from Naoko Takeuchi, anyway, but comics can be drawn differently obviously. It seems, but that might just be my cynical take, they stopped bothering when they realized that not only the target audience is watching.

Still, I'd say this is the worst shot of the first season, and in that episode, Ikuko Itō was the animation director, but it just might have been included against her will. It even looks like bad rule 34 fanfiction (oh boy and is there a LOT of that online):

SuperS ups the ante a bit by introducing sexual assault allegory, although admittedly I don't fault them for trying, just for mucking it up badly - it's just kind of there and doesn't go anywhere, and making it the show's go to modus operandi for the first 22 or 23 episodes or so (out of 39) wasn't a good idea without following it up with any sort of profound statement, and waste any goodwill with redeeming the assaulters (in my opinion, at least).

Oh, right, regarding the drawn panty/upskirt shots, well... in SuperS they even stopped bothering protecting Ami from them, not that they never bothered to not drawing her in other terrible positions. See exhibit A directly above, but her and Makoto usually were spared from that treatment.

Yet... yet, I think it is really a good idea to keep in mind that this came from early 90ies Japan. Analyzing the scenes with a 2021 sensibility regarding gratuitous shots of lovable girl protagonists in revealing, exposing or demeaning positions has something of complaining that late 60ies Star Trek had a colored woman on the bridge crew, but she was "only" allowed to answer the space phone.

But indeed, I do agree with your points. It's not necessary, and even more so not when it hits characters you care about. However, while it no longer might lookt the part, Sailor Moon was actually a decent step forward for feminism in Japanese animation.

And let's not forget that they simply but Haruka and Michiru's relationship into the show without ever once drawing attention to it, outside of Usagi telling Makoto over and over again that Haruka is a girl, but that was Usagi being the dum-dum she is and relating this to her own experience of thinking she's a he. They just have a homosexual relationship in the show without it coming up as a thing, and they're a great couple (plus the partake in that Umino-centered couple contest wihtout anyone batting an eyelash), and it isn't just there for inclusivity's sake. It just is. Naturally. There.

Not like, say, a certain gay couple in Star Trek Discovery all but formerly adopting an androgynous Trill girl and making a mockery of a dialogue after she said she wants to be called "they" rather then "she".

 

 

[majestic]

3 hours ago, HoonDing said:

 

3 hours ago, Malcador said:

Pft, that Jupiter trying to cheat with heels.

I think that's supposed to be Sailor Pluto. @BartimaeusI'll put all the pictures in Spoiler tags to make the post more concise but click on Saturn and Pluto at your own... uhm, "peril" I  guess. I mean you know Pluto already, but there's a plot-significant detail that will come up soonish.

So, from left to right:

Sailor Saturn:

Spoiler

Sailor Pluto:

Spoiler

Sailor Chibi-Moon (who should be half the size of everyone else, but don't let me stop you from cosplaying a 9 year old on my account):

Spoiler

Sailor Neptune:

Spoiler

 

Finally, ha ha, an actual male Sailor Uranus. At least I think that's a guy in a Sailor Senshi costume:

Spoiler

 

[majestic]

So let's make a fake Sailor Moon episode title.

The Trio Gone? A sigh of relief for @majestic!
 

Spoiler

 

The Amazon Trio "redeemed" themselves by sacrificing their lives to repair Usagi's shattered dream mirror. Their redemption arc as such focused almost entirely on Fish-Eye, which was a terrific choice (insofar as this season is concerned) and happens because he meets Mamoru (his target) and gets to interact with Usagi.

Aside from gleefully going after a 13 year old boy he was the least creepy of the three, and if there is one of them who deserved something better than the treatment the Dead Moon Circus gave them it was him. Alas, the same can't be said for the other two, but at least Hawk's-Eye died to save Fish-Eye and Tiger's-Eye repaired Usagi's dream mirror, costing him his life.

Still, I'm not forgiving him for toying with Mako-Chan just because he saved Usagi. To quote Darth Vader: I HATE YOU.

Creepasus shows up at the end and transforms the three dead animals (hence the names in the first place) back to their human form, then gives them dreams and transports them through their dream mirrors into his dreamland. The same forest and clearing that Chibi-Usa visits when she dreams of Creepasus.

Because one creepy sexual predator hiding in a forest of Chibi-Usa's dreams wasn't creepy enough. Way to go Creepasus.

The next episode introduces the - much better - new enemies and bothers to come up with a concept that allows the enemies to check dreams without violating them. Why not start with that? Nothing comes out of this sexual assault allegory. Nothing. I bothered to wait with my final judgement here (well, almost) until it was over just in case I missed something from the last time I saw this season, but no. There's nothing. Nothing. All of these violations amount to nothing at all. They're just there. It's baffling. At least try to make a statement after, hm, let's check, 21 assault scenes?

Also, the direction of the episodes was much better and Mr. Serious Mode even wrote in two fights where the Sailor Moon doesn't look like a complete dolt and Sailor Mars does something useful for the first time since the freaking end of Sailor Moon S (21 episodes in! 21!).

Anyway, the new bad "guys" are a fun bunch, they're four girls - the Amazoness Quartet, a mixture of Peter Pan and the creepy kids that inhabit the Nightmares on Elm Street.

Spoiler

Apparently, in the manga they are Chibi-Usa's future Sailor Senshi team, brainwashed by Queen Nehelenia (who I think I read is also Queen Serenity's, as in Usagi's original mother, evil sister).

 

Well, let's see how long the streak of somewhat decent episodes lasts. It is at an impressive three so far.

Edited February 5, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think I'm in the last stretch of season 1 at 44. Will either finish it tonight or play video games.

It's kind of funny that even Tuxedo Kamen getting brainwashed didn't really change much, even evil he still shows up to throw roses and bail out Sailor Moon. I'm hoping that s2 brings a tighter focus for the story generally and villains specifically, because the Dark Kingdom's goals and strategies have been pretty god damn neurotic. Queen Beryl is just boring, even with the reveal of the past she's got the personality of a cardboard box and no style at all. Guess all shadowy background villains can't be DIO.

At least the Sailor gang consistently have wacky adventures. I don't mean to sound like I'm down on the show, I just have an easier time going into detail about what I don't like than doing the same for what I like

52 minutes ago, majestic said:

So let's make a fake Sailor Moon episode title.

The Trio Gone? A sigh of relief for @majestic!

Looks like I have some **** to look forward to.

[InsaneCommander]

Sailor Venus: "No, since the last show Pluto is not a planet anymore."

Sailor Pluto: "Huh? Wha? Why?"

Sailor Mercury: "Science. And Neil de Grasse Tyson."

lol