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I'm sorry, but how does this keep sailing over your head? Its not just an issue of appearance. The issue is STRENGTH. When you are physically strong its visible. Don't you think your "muscle therapy" would actually... you know, give someone muscles? Buffy's strength is still ridiculous IMO because the magic that gives it to her just makes her stronger, it doesn't make her muscles expand or anything. I gave Valeria and Red Sonja as examples of female warriors who look the part; neither one is bulging with meat, but they're both tall, athletic and have long reach, in other words they look like they could handle themselves in a fight and carry their weapons without fainting.

 

And when you're fireproof does that mean your skin should look this? You're saying that Buffy's strength is impossible but that's the whole point of magic; to do the impossible.

 

Way to completely miss the point. The issue is not that there just happen to be Muslims in India, Malaysia or the UK, its that THEY'RE THEY ONES THROWING THE ACID.

 

Add to that the fact that you have no ****ing clue what "racism" is. Islam is not a race. Arabs are a race. Do you understand the distinction? When I point out that the Quaran mandates draconian punishment, beating of women, apostate killing and sets market prices for slaves I'm not being RACIST against Arabs I'm merely CRITICIZING Islam. You have no idea the cultural, legal and physical pressures brought to bear on women who forced to wear the Hijab in countries with theocracies or salafist regimes. Kindly take you misinformed post-modernist bull**** elsewhere. (Saudi Arabia maybe?)

 

Did you read the rest of the replies because both of your less than clever retorts were already attempted others. To summarize:

 

1) The people getting acid thrown on them (and the ones throwing it) in India are Hindu (look at pretty much any article on the topic in India and notice how many women are dressed in traditionally Hindu garb).

 

2) While Islamophobia is not racism, per se, using the term racism when referring to hate against Muslims is generally accepted (even in the academic community). Regardless of whether you call it racism or Islamophobia, though, what the poster I was replying to said did originate from a position of ignorance (if not outright hate).

 

Also, have you ever read the Bible, because that book advocates for some pretty brutal ****. You see, extremists of EVERY stripe are ****ing insane; it's not something that's unique to Islam.

 

You are the literal king of missing the point.

 

1. I never said Buffy's powers were "impossible" I just said that they'd seem more plausible if the magic that made her stronger actually had some visible effect.

 

2. The overwhelming majority of acid attack victims are Muslim women, this is a fact.

 

3. Islamophobia isn't racism, true, its just bull****. You can't be bigoted against an idea or system of belief, only against the people who hold it. If Jezz was implying that all Muslims are inherently violent misogynists then yes, he would be a bigot. If I understand him correctly however, he's simply observing that Islamic doctrine encourages sexism which it pretty explicitly does.

 

4. I have read the bible and you're right it is just as draconian and barbaric. This is unsurprising considering that the two religions share a common cultural ancestry. I'm not sure how you think that gives Islam a free pass though. If I kick you in the shins and then you kick someone else, are your actions somehow justified just because I'm doing it too?

Edited by Mandragore
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Well weight is one thing, but if you're swinging whatever around for a long period of time, it's going to feel a lot heavier. It's like walking a mile vs. walking a mile uphill.

 

I did mention the stamina advantage men typically have.

 

Although it's still important to note that melee combat is usually over pretty quickly (i.e. a matter of minutes) and in a disciplined fighting formation there's not going to be a ton of wasted movement (most people spent their time being defensive and mostly just took rare opportunities to actually make offensive moves).

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Realistic and unrealistic.. come on people.. this is going to be a pure fantasy game.. Stop basing so much on realisting.. and I am not even sure how accuarate some of this information.. Pure fantasy is very open to anything that isn't common sence. Uncommon sence.. something that isn't based on facts or "normal" logic if there is a such thing... that is why I am interested in fantasy in a first place. TT

 

Do not worry what has been said in this thread will not force or enforce any change in direction for the development of the game. This one just like the other three I linked earlier were locked for a good reason and this one will be so probably sooner or later too. The team creating the game are very skilled and talented, very well educated and intelligent. They will handle any such situations in the game the way best suited to the world and cultures within it and appropriately for the characters and storylines, not on whether or not forumite a or b believes their political or social views are the more correct one to have.

 

I am only taking part in this thread for entertainment at this point in time because I know what is coming down the line with regards to this thread. I will however put my points across and discuss the topic in a reasonable and logical fashion until that occurs but I am under no illusion about the reality of the lack of impact this threads content will have on the design of the game because I know that Chris and the others are educated and intelligent, mature and wise enough to design such without the input of this constant bickering contained here.

 

We get it, your too good for this thread. I think most of us are here for entertainment as well, did you join this forum with the intent that you would be discovering a cure for cancer or something? Because I don't think that's what computer game forums are for...

 

Does pointing out the realities of this discussion offend you in some way? As I have said before I have been part of this topic discussion multiple times in other threads, seen the outcome of each and every possible route of discussion which branched into every argument to be had (more impressive and extensive in debate than this one). I gave you links earlier to those discussion so you could educate and evaluate what was discussed in those very same topics as this, whether any point in those would be of interest or influence your opinion for this one. Including the one you are currently having with the other person about physical attributes of genders which was also discussed in the other threads in great detail already by many people.

 

As a discussion alone this one is fine provided does not get derailed into bickering about real world issues, political agendas and such (of which has already happened). But the fact is this discussion is really only going to be between forumites about their opposing views on such political and social topics and that is fine if does not get too heated or off topic. It is not one that will change the developers route or direction as shown by the many other same topics about the same thing of which some I linked. They are educated and intelligent enough to make the right choice themselves without being told what political or social view point is correct for their games cultures or characters.

 

Why every person on the internet must believe they are the first to come up with a topic or discussion, the first to argue about something in a certain way or manner, that they think, say or do is more important or different from the last person who thought, said or did the exact same thing as them elsewhere or before is amusing to me...

Edited by Dragoonlordz
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1. I never said Buffy's powers were "impossible" I just said that they'd seem more plausible if the magic that made her stronger actually had some visible effect.

And the Daenerys' magic that makes her fireproof should not have some visible effect because.....

 

2. The overwhelming majority of acid attack victims are Muslim women, this is a fact.

The overwhelming majority of acid attack perpetrators are men, so I guess that means all men want to throw acid on women?

 

3. Islamophobia isn't racism, true, its just bull****. You can't be bigoted against an idea or system of belief, only against the people who hold it. If Jezz was implying that all Muslims are inherently violent misogynists then yes, he would be a bigot. If I understand him correctly however, he's simply observing that Islamic doctrine encourages sexism which it pretty explicitly does.

Did you honestly just say that? You're telling me that when people throw rocks at peaceful Muslims or firebomb Mosques they're not being racist they're just expressing their distaste for Islamic doctrine? For real?

 

4. I have read the bible and you're right it is just as draconian and barbaric. This is unsurprising considering that the two religions share a common cultural ancestry. I'm not sure how you think that gives Islam a free pass though. If I kick you in the shins and then you kick someone else, are your actions somehow justified just because I'm doing it too?

And yet you're giving Christians a free pass while assuming that all Muslims adhere to the Quran as rigidly as possible?

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Well weight is one thing, but if you're swinging whatever around for a long period of time, it's going to feel a lot heavier. It's like walking a mile vs. walking a mile uphill.

 

I did mention the stamina advantage men typically have.

 

Although it's still important to note that melee combat is usually over pretty quickly (i.e. a matter of minutes) and in a disciplined fighting formation there's not going to be a ton of wasted movement (most people spent their time being defensive and mostly just took rare opportunities to actually make offensive moves).

 

True enough.

 

Does pointing out the realities of this discussion offend you in some way? As I have said before I have been part of this topic discussion multiple times in other threads, seen the outcome of each and every possible route of discussion which branched into every argument to be had (more impressive and extensive in debate than this one). I gave you links earlier to those discussion so you could educate and evaluate what was discussed in those very same topics as this, whether any point in those would be of interest or influence your opinion for this one. Including the one you are currently having with the other person about physical attributes of genders which was also discussed in the other threads in great detail already by many people.

 

As a discussion alone this one is fine provided does not get derailed into bickering about real world issues, political agendas and such (of which has already happened). But the fact is this discussion is really only going to be between forumites about their opposing views on such political and social topics and that is fine if does not get too heated or off topic. It is not one that will change the developers route or direction as shown by the many other same topics about the same thing of which some I linked. They are educated and intelligent enough to make the right choice themselves without being told what political or social view point is correct for their games cultures or characters.

 

no, it's just you've done it like five times now. I would like to hear what you have to say. So how about instead of derailing the thread further, with talking about how it's going to get derailed and telling us things we already know like "the dev's are smart people" ect. you help get things back on track, by talking about the actual topic of the thread. I'm just trying to make conversation here, I don't really care if it changes anyone's mind or not.

Edited by jezz555
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I'm glad my one comic was able to ignite such a furor of discussion. Just one comic. Clearly, if a game wants to deal with issues like "sexism" maturely, it would have to be able to do so with a certain bit of class and more complete understanding of the topic. Just a single topic on "Muslim women and their oppression" brought out discussions on racism, jingoism, feelings of cultural superiority, Islamophobia, etc. These things are never as simple as they seem. If Obsidian can approach these topics well for their game, then they should do so.

 

But if it's going to be bland and one-dimensional and shallow, then just mention it in passing, and don't bother. This would also be the case for racism, etc. I think that was part of the beauty of PS:T. It treated certain topics with a sense of humility and depth and respect that it required. And it was fun while it did it too.

 

In regards to why I haven't been discussing the whole comic that I posted, I just don't think a gaming forum is the best place.

Edited by Hormalakh
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My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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And the Daenerys' magic that makes her fireproof should not have some visible effect because.....

 

Should it? Even if she got teflon skin or something it probably wouldn't be visible. If a spell makes you stronger it makes sense that it would do that by making your muscles grow...

 

The overwhelming majority of acid attack perpetrators are men, so I guess that means all men want to throw acid on women?

 

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or just stupid... No one is saying that all Muslims "want" to throw acid on women. All that's been suggested is that Islamic fundamentalists, informed by sexist scripture, are throwing acid at women who refuse to conform. Your analogy is retarded because being male is a gender, not a religion or ideology...

 

Did you honestly just say that? You're telling me that when people throw rocks at peaceful Muslims or firebomb Mosques they're not being racist they're just expressing their distaste for Islamic doctrine? For real?

 

Oh, didn't realize criticizing someones religion was the same as throwing rocks and firebombs. "Islamophobia" is rarely used to describe the acts you mention. Most often its used by apologists and knob-ends like you trying to weasel out of discussion by equating criticism with racism.

 

And yet you're giving Christians a free pass while assuming that all Muslims adhere to the Quran as rigidly as possible?

 

When did I say either of those things? There are Muslim fundamentalists and Christian fundamentalists. Both interpret their creeds literally and commit atrocities in their name whether they're tossing acid or shooting doctors. Seeing as we're talking about Islam however I don't see how that's at all relevant.

 

Edit:

 

In regards to why I haven't been discussing the whole comic that I posted, I just don't think a gaming forum is the best place.

 

So why post it in the first place...

Edited by Mandragore
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no, it's just you've done it like five times now. I would like to hear what you have to say. So how about instead of derailing the thread further, with talking about how it's going to get derailed and telling us things we already know like "the dev's are smart people" ect. you help get things back on track, by talking about the actual topic of the thread. I'm just trying to make conversation here, I don't really care if it changes anyone's mind or not.

 

If want to know my point of view on a specific aspect then ask, I will be quite happy to put across my position. It has to be specific though as I already addressed the thread general premise in my first post. You recent discussions lingered on two things, first being physical attributes and second being about real life religious beliefs, real world culture and locations. The first part I am willing to discuss, the second will not yield any beneficial discussion and consider nothing more than inflammatory and irrelevant to this game.

 

Those secondary things are fine for discussion on appropriate forums but I do not consider this to be one. Islam is not in the game, the middle eastern nations are not present in the game and neither are their cultures. What influence any of those have in the game is unknown and as such waste of my time discussing something that may not even exist or be present in it. Gender will exist in the game as a certainty, that makes that aspect okay to discuss as far as I am concerned and as such my first post in this thread spoke about that as a general principle. Now if want to discuss the concept of physical attributes on gender then first you should read the other threads I linked which had that discussion already. Come to a conclusion and ask a question.

 

If want a more general response then I will put it simply as this... Weight and physical attributes might have no impact on gender if some of the cultures within the game decide to depict such, whether promoting physcially larger active females and inactive smaller males. Likewise if some of the cultures in the game might promote physically larger males and smaller females in that society or even genetically different then it will 100% depend on what attributes the developer decides for specific cultures in that game. There is no law in fantasy to say all men and required to be large and well built or all women smaller framed and less capable of physical activity and vice versa. It all depends on the developers desire regarding individual cultures, races, enviromental influences and genetic evolution from living in that fictional world or regions within.

Edited by Dragoonlordz
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If want to know my point of view on a specific aspect then ask, I will be quite happy to put across my position. It has to be specific though as I already addressed the thread general premise in my first post. You recent discussions lingered on two things, first being physical attributes and second being about real life religious beliefs, real world culture and locations. The first part I am willing to discuss, the second will not yield any beneficial discussion and consider nothing more than inflammatory and irrelevant to this game.

 

Those secondary things are fine for discussion on appropriate forums but I do not consider this to be one. Islam is not in the game, the middle eastern nations are not present in the game and neither are their cultures. What influence any of those have in the game is unknown and as such waste of my time discussing something that may not even exist or be present in it. Gender will exist in the game as a certainty, that makes that aspect okay to discuss as far as I am concerned and as such my first post in this thread spoke about that as a general principle. Now if want to discuss the concept of phyiscal attributes on gender then first you should read the other threads I linked which had that discussion already. Come to a conclusion and ask a question.

 

If want a more general response then I will put it simply as this... Weight and physical attributes can have no impact on gender if one of the cultures within the game promotes physcially larger active females and inactive smaller males. Likewise if one of the cultures in the game promotes physically larger males and smaller females in that society or even genetically different then it will 100% depend on what attributes the developer decides for specific cultures in that game. There is no law in fantasy to say all men and required to be large and well built or all women smaller framed and less capable or vice versa. It all depends on the developers desire regarding individual cultures, races, enviromental influences and genetic evolution from living in that fictional world or regions within.

 

I wouldn't ask you to comment on religion or Islam or w/e, Hormalakh's cartoon was more about cultural relativism anyway and regardless that was never meant to have anything to do with this thread...but I guess I'm just too opinionated on the matter to avoid addressing it when it comes up.

 

If you want specifics, my initial point wasn't really about physical differences either. It was about whether or not in game, people should express the prejudices of the middle ages as well as the fashion, speech ect. Regardless of whether or not they actually are, should the prevailing mindset of human men in game be that women are not made for combat ect.? Because like I said I think it presents interesting opportunities to play characters like the aforementioned Brienne of Tarth from SoIF who is a big muscly woman who can beat any man in a sword-fight, but is still looked down on for being a woman and has to try and overcome that. I don't blame you for losing the point of the thread, as I did myself somewhere along the way. But I didn't want sexism injected into the game just because I hate women or I think it super "edgy/hardcore" as some have suggested. I just thought it brings in some cool opportunities for role-play, were if you don't fit peoples preconceived notions of "normalcy", you have to prove yourself, instead of just being accepted right away.

 

I for one like characters like Tyrion Lannister, or Brienne and who are kind of misfits and wouldn't mind playing one, but I was wondering what others thought, that's all.

Edited by jezz555
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In regards to why I haven't been discussing the whole comic that I posted, I just don't think a gaming forum is the best place.

 

So why post it in the first place...

 

It was used as an example. Read the original post.

My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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Should it? Even if she got teflon skin or something it probably wouldn't be visible. If a spell makes you stronger it makes sense that it would do that by making your muscles grow...

Oh, so the blood of the dragon coats her with Teflon; really? Besides if we're being "realistic" then her skin should turn a silver color since there's no completely see through and fireproof substance (especially back then). Also I'm guessing that you thought BG2 was an awful game because whenever you picked up Crom Faeyr your character didn't instantly turn into the size of a mack truck. Or when you cast strength on them. Or when any number of a dozen other things that modify player strength happened in that game (and pretty much every other video game on Earth).

 

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or just stupid... No one is saying that all Muslims "want" to throw acid on women. All that's been suggested is that Islamic fundamentalists, informed by sexist scripture, are throwing acid at women who refuse to conform. Your analogy is retarded because being male is a gender, not a religion or ideology...

But not all Muslims, despite being informed by the same sexist scriptures, throw acid at women. Acid is thrown at women by misogynist ****s who simply use their creed to justify their actions. Islam didn't make them throw the acid, them being ****ing **** did.

 

Oh, didn't realize criticizing someones religion was the same as throwing rocks and firebombs. "Islamophobia" is rarely used to describe the acts you mention. Most often its used by apologists and knob-ends like you trying to weasel out of discussion by equating criticism with racism.

Just because there are douche bags who yell racism at every off color doesn't mean that actual racism doesn't exist anymore. What you're saying is actual racism.

 

When did I say either of those things? There are Muslim fundamentalists and Christian fundamentalists. Both interpret their creeds literally and commit atrocities in their name whether they're tossing acid or shooting doctors. Seeing as we're talking about Islam however I don't see how that's at all relevant.

You're extrapolating the actions of a small sect of misogynist **** to be representative of all Muslims. However, I seriously doubt you think that all Christians are like the crazy cults you find in remote parts of the US.

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It was used as an example. Read the original post.

 

I'm aware of that, I was just curious as to why you'd post something provocative and then just duck out of the ensuing discussion...

Edited by Mandragore
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If you want specifics, my initial point wasn't really about physical differences either. It was about whether or not in game, people should express the prejudices of the middle ages as well as the fashion, speech ect.

My main point in starting this thread was an interest in realistic "strong-woman" protagonists as opposed to the kind of thing you would see stumbling around in the Whedon-verse. (skinny, beautiful, young girl who can somehow beat up a roomful of enraged cannibals armed with swords an axes).

 

Bro, what?

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I wouldn't ask you to comment on religion or Islam or w/e, Hormalakh's cartoon was more about cultural relativism anyway and regardless that was never meant to have anything to do with this thread...but I guess I'm just too opinionated on the matter to avoid addressing it when it comes up.

 

If you want specifics, my initial point wasn't really about physical differences either. It was about whether or not in game, people should express the prejudices of the middle ages as well as the fashion, speech ect. Regardless of whether or not they actually are, should the prevailing mindset of human men in game be that women are not made for combat ect.? Because like I said I think it presents interesting opportunities to play characters like the aforementioned Brienne of Tarth from SoIF who is a big muscly woman who can beat any man in a sword-fight, but is still looked down on for being a woman and has to try and overcome that. I don't blame you for losing the point of the thread, as I did myself somewhere along the way. But I didn't want sexism injected into the game just because I hate women or I think it super "edgy/hardcore" as some have suggested. I just thought it brings in some cool opportunities for role-play, were if you don't fit peoples preconceived notions of "normalcy", you have to prove yourself, instead of just being accepted right away.

 

I for one like characters like Tyrion Lannister, or Brienne and who are kind of misfits and wouldn't mind playing one, but I was wondering what others thought, that's all.

 

The biggest problem for threads like these is that the people generally are single minded in trying to impose real world social or political dynamics and physics into a fictional one. The laws of real world physics and such need not apply, real world cultures and idiologies can be altered and new ones imposed. In the point I mentioned earlier I was trying to get across is that in this fictional world, it is within the ability of its creators meaning Obsidian to create any culture or enviromental factor that can allow those of dominant women and dominant men to both exist both whether in different regions or use of different races with different gender roles. The physcial attributes can be switched and used in a way to allow certain regions and/or races to have bigger stronger women than men and vice versa. There will probably be cultures and regions within that world that have dominant males and others with dominant females. Some races will have larger males or some might have larger females. People need to stop trying to force it to be one or the other, in that fictional world you can have both present and logical to the world setting.

Edited by Dragoonlordz
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Oh, so the blood of the dragon coats her with Teflon; really? Besides if we're being "realistic" then her skin should turn a silver color since there's no completely see through and fireproof substance (especially back then). Also I'm guessing that you thought BG2 was an awful game because whenever you picked up Crom Faeyr your character didn't instantly turn into the size of a mack truck. Or when you cast strength on them. Or when any number of a dozen other things that modify player strength happened in that game (and pretty much every other video game on Earth).

 

I was making a joke. My only point is that people who are strong actually look strong. The magic stuff is irrelevant since originally we were just talking about how a female warrior would look. Again, you're entitled to your opinion; you already know mine and personally I'm not really interested in reading more of your frothing illogic.

 

But not all Muslims, despite being informed by the same sexist scriptures, throw acid at women. Acid is thrown at women by misogynist ****s who simply use their creed to justify their actions. Islam didn't make them throw the acid, them being ****ing **** did.

 

Except that it DOES justify their actions IF you believe that it's the literal word of a deity, because it (Islam) IS sexist. The majority of Muslims who don't go around flinging acid at people are just moral or sane enough not to take that pile of bullcrap literally.

 

Just because there are douche bags who yell racism at every off color doesn't mean that actual racism doesn't exist anymore. What you're saying is actual racism.

 

We're talking about "Islamophobia" not racism. We've already established that they're not the same thing. It what sense am I a racist? The Koran is not a person and Islam is not a race.

 

You're extrapolating the actions of a small sect of misogynist **** to be representative of all Muslims. However, I seriously doubt you think that all Christians are like the crazy cults you find in remote parts of the US.

 

Actually if you read my posts I never said this, you're just putting words in my mouth again.

Edited by Mandragore
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@Mandragore I wasn't ducking out of the conversation. It's just not possible to have one on a public gaming forum. If you'd like to have a reasoned discussion about Islam and its views on women, feel free to message me anytime. I'll be more than happy to discuss it with you, through email, PM, chat, whatever. Just not on a gaming forum. Is that too difficult to understand?

My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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The biggest problem for threads like these is that the people generally are single minded in trying to impose real world social or political dynamics and physics into a fictional one. The laws of real world physics and such need not apply, real world cultures and idiologies can be altered and new ones imposed. In the point I mentioned earlier I was trying to get across is that in this fictional world, it is within the ability of its creators meaning Obsidian to create any culture or enviromental factor that can allow those of dominant women and dominant men to both exist both whether in different regions or use of different races with different gender roles. The physcial attributes can be switched and used in a way to allow certain regions and/or races to have bigger stronger women than men and vice versa. There will probably be cultures and regions within that world that have dominant males and others with dominant females. Some races will have larger males or some might have larger females. People need to stop trying to force it to be one or the other, in that fictional world you can have both present and logical to the world setting.

 

...well it could be anything, obviously. I think it would be cool however if things reflected the real world, for reasons I have already stated. When I said I wanted to hear your thoughts I kind of meant, about sexism as a theme in the game not your thoughts about what's wrong with my thread. I'm not forcing Obsidian to do one thing or another, I don't know why you keep saying that. I would like it if PE was realistic, but YES, obviously they can make it anyway they want. You keep avoiding giving me your opinion by saying things like "The laws of real world physics and such need not apply" I know that they don't need to, but I like the laws of physics and I want them to apply. Do you not want them to or something? You haven't really told me one way or another.

 

I don't really care that "this (is a) fictional world" that's a given, they could make a world that lacks gravity or oxygen as well I suppose, but that's not really what we're talking about here is it. What do you want this fictional world to contain?

Edited by jezz555
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@Mandragore I wasn't ducking out of the conversation. It's just not possible to have one on a public gaming forum. If you'd like to have a reasoned discussion about Islam and its views on women, feel free to message me anytime. I'll be more than happy to discuss it with you, through email, PM, chat, whatever. Just not on a gaming forum. Is that too difficult to understand?

 

Fair enough. My only point was that it sounded like you knew it would be provocative when you posted it, so its kind of silly to then say that this isn't an appropriate forum. (although I agree that it isn't)

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If you want specifics, my initial point wasn't really about physical differences either. It was about whether or not in game, people should express the prejudices of the middle ages as well as the fashion, speech ect.

My main point in starting this thread was an interest in realistic "strong-woman" protagonists as opposed to the kind of thing you would see stumbling around in the Whedon-verse. (skinny, beautiful, young girl who can somehow beat up a roomful of enraged cannibals armed with swords an axes).

 

Bro, what?

 

Initial meaning first. My first point, (meaning the point I wrote in my first post in this thread) was what I said, my main point in starting the thread altogether, was also what I said. Hopefully that clears things up for you

 

And we are not bro's you just spent the past hour derailing my thread by calling me a racist in the most ignorant and condescending way possible, if there was an ignore function I could find on here, I would be using it right now.

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I think....this thread is getting too far into real-world politics and other such issues and too far away from discussing "what we want to see in a game." If you get my drift. It's too complex to untangle with a pruning, so...closing this one. The original topic can be tried again, if the OP wishes, but this one's off the rails.

 

The Way Off Topic forum would be the better place to try some of the side-discussions that have popped up here. Just FYI.

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“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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