Is $4M enough?

[Darth Trethon]

Triple A means -

 

Top end graphics

Hours of cinematics

Physics engine

every word voice acted

3 different versions for xbox, ps3, and PC

 

^ don't need any of that ****.

 

Actually no, AAA just means the game has a large budget.....that's all. Of course the things you mention are common in games with large budgets but even without them a large budget game will still be considered a AAA game.

[rjshae]

Maybe I'm a pessimist, but while I'm hopeful that every single bigger project will do fine, if even one fails to get made, for example, the bad press kickstarter would get, combined with increased sentiment of cynicism from potential backers, could do a lot of damage.

It depends on whether one or more of the current, better-funded Kickstarters are financially successful. A significant victory or two would likely go a long way toward cushioning the psychological impact of a failure.

[Veeno]

Do you have any idea what distinguishes a "AAA" game from a non "AAA" game? Or for that matter do you know why you never hear the terms "AA" or just a plain single A game?

 

The difference is budget....it has nothing to do with how good the game is or is not, nor does it have anything to do with how many copies it sold.

 

Well that's just stupid. I would certainly say Star Citizen (to which I linked above) qualifies to be considered an AAA game. The fact that the size of the budget is the only thing that matters is just... just infinitely stupid.

[Darth Trethon]

Do you have any idea what distinguishes a "AAA" game from a non "AAA" game? Or for that matter do you know why you never hear the terms "AA" or just a plain single A game?

 

The difference is budget....it has nothing to do with how good the game is or is not, nor does it have anything to do with how many copies it sold.

 

Well that's just stupid. I would certainly say Star Citizen (to which I linked above) qualifies to be considered an AAA game. The fact that the size of the budget is the only thing that matters is just... just infinitely stupid.

 

That I completely agree with. It's just the way the industry has grown.....it's all about who can buy the most advertising and who has the most leverage over the reviewers and so on.

[Veeno]

That I completely agree with. It's just the way the industry has grown.....it's all about who can buy the most advertising and who has the most leverage over the reviewers and so on.

 

Exactly why I think it has to be done with and replaced with nothing but pure crowdfunding.

[limaxophobiacq]

They said they could make a game in the spirit of the old IE games for 1.1 million and they got nearly 4 times that. If they can't make it with 4.1 they are either liars or idiots, so I guess we just have to have to trust that they are not.

[Veeno]

They said they could make a game in the spirit of the old IE games for 1.1 million and they got nearly 4 times that. If they can't make it with 4.1 they are either liars or idiots, so I guess we just have to have to trust that they are not.

 

Or they knew they needed 3-4 million $ from the beginning but it was their plan to go "lol we need 1.1 mils giv pls" expecting to reach it and go way over it, DFE-style.

 

I'm tellin' ya, Obsidian is sneaky.

[Sensuki]

-This probably doesn't affect most backers, since it seems the vast majority of them clicked a link from Kotaku or IGN or wherever, because if there wasn't such a big media fuss about Kickstarter they'd be making sub-100k numbers like every game pre-Double Fine

 

I found the project by doing a video game search on Kickstarter on September 15 I believe I was in the first 2000 backers.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Sensuki

[rjshae]

They said they could make a game in the spirit of the old IE games for 1.1 million and they got nearly 4 times that. If they can't make it with 4.1 they are either liars or idiots, so I guess we just have to have to trust that they are not.

Yeah, I guess. Sheesh. Now is not the time for abject pessimism.

[Darth Trethon]

They said they could make a game in the spirit of the old IE games for 1.1 million and they got nearly 4 times that. If they can't make it with 4.1 they are either liars or idiots, so I guess we just have to have to trust that they are not.

 

It's all in the technology they are using.....which is mostly older technology from the days of the IE games with newer visual tricks to make it look significantly better. This means that development for them will be both significantly cheaper and significantly simpler. You got to remember that during the days of the classic cRPGs games used to cost a lot less than they do now and could be developed with a lot less people on hand. 4.1 mil may not sound like a lot in an age where we're use to hearing of games costing 10x more but as you pointed out they could have done it for 1.1 mil and there are very good reasons for these budget estimates. None of these things are in any way negatives though.....games these days are greatly diminished by the insane focus on expensive graphics and special effects and so on.

 

I have no doubt PE will be quite amazing and perhaps a good reminder to the rest of the industry that all the fanciness isn't necessary.

[Darth Trethon]

They said they could make a game in the spirit of the old IE games for 1.1 million and they got nearly 4 times that. If they can't make it with 4.1 they are either liars or idiots, so I guess we just have to have to trust that they are not.

 

Or they knew they needed 3-4 million $ from the beginning but it was their plan to go "lol we need 1.1 mils giv pls" expecting to reach it and go way over it, DFE-style.

 

I'm tellin' ya, Obsidian is sneaky.

 

No, that can backfire big time. Once a kickstarter reaches its goal the backers are charged and Obsidian had no way of knowing they'd reach 3 mil let alone 4 mil. Hell just a few days before the end reaching the 3 mil mark seemed doubtful and they really couldn't count on rising 1 mil during the last 3 days the way it happened. They could have been left with a short budget and tens of thousands of backers charged without being able to deliver if they tried to play tricks. No, they did mean the 1.1 mil and I explained why this budget is justified and enough in my post above.

[nikolokolus]

Just a quick point of order, they're not using IE tech, they're using Unity, which is a modern game development suite

 

 

In any case, the main reason costs are going to be lower than a big budget title comes down to a variety of factors, including reduced costs associated with marketing , distribution , manufacturing/printing, license fees and less overhead (publishers have big buildings with large numbers of people on staff, etc.). Also not having to simultaneously develop for consoles or building, debugging and balancing multi-player features reduces development time and costs considerably.

 

Bottom line: it sounds like Obsidian knows how to budget their resources, else they would have gone out of business a long time ago.

[Veeno]

It's all in the technology they are using.....which is mostly older technology from the days of the IE games with newer visual tricks to make it look significantly better.

 

I don't see how Unity is "older technology from the days of IE games". If anything, they're using new technology with visual tricks to make it look older.

[nikolokolus]

It's all in the technology they are using.....which is mostly older technology from the days of the IE games with newer visual tricks to make it look significantly better.

 

I don't see how Unity is "older technology from the days of IE games". If anything, they're using new technology with visual tricks to make it look older.

 

I don't think that screenshot they released looked older, it just had an old-school aesthetic. If anything being able to render an environment in a matter of hours instead of days or weeks is going to speed up the process of building things too, which also reduces costs.

[Darth Trethon]

It's all in the technology they are using.....which is mostly older technology from the days of the IE games with newer visual tricks to make it look significantly better.

 

I don't see how Unity is "older technology from the days of IE games". If anything, they're using new technology with visual tricks to make it look older.

 

It's not so much what they use but how they use it. They are creating environments that are comparable with the IE engines....better looking yes but not all that different.

 

This is VERY different from creating a fully 3d world with all the special effects in that same engine.

[Darth Trethon]

It's all in the technology they are using.....which is mostly older technology from the days of the IE games with newer visual tricks to make it look significantly better.

 

I don't see how Unity is "older technology from the days of IE games". If anything, they're using new technology with visual tricks to make it look older.

 

I don't think that screenshot they released looked older, it just had an old-school aesthetic. If anything being able to render an environment in a matter of hours instead of days or weeks is going to speed up the process of building things too, which also reduces costs.

 

It's 2d, the world and maps of PE will be 2d....like the IE games.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Darth Trethon

[nikolokolus]

 

It's 2d, the world and maps of PE will be 2d....like the IE games.

 

Ummm ... you realize that they have to build the environment in 3D and then "bake it" into an isometric 2D perspective right? Just because your computer isn't rendering the environment in real-time 3D doesn't mean that are creation is done in 2D

[Ieo]

It's all in the technology they are using.....which is mostly older technology from the days of the IE games with newer visual tricks to make it look significantly better.

 

I don't see how Unity is "older technology from the days of IE games". If anything, they're using new technology with visual tricks to make it look older.

 

I don't think that screenshot they released looked older, it just had an old-school aesthetic. If anything being able to render an environment in a matter of hours instead of days or weeks is going to speed up the process of building things too, which also reduces costs.

 

It's 2d, the world and maps of PE will be 2d....like the IE games.

 

The Unity engine is new technology.

The screenshot is an old-school deliverable.

 

PE's area maps will be rendered in static 3D and hand-painted for the 2D look, so it's new technology in the old-school style.

[Darth Trethon]

It's 2d, the world and maps of PE will be 2d....like the IE games.

 

Ummm ... you realize that they have to build the environment in 3D and then "bake it" into an isometric 2D perspective right? Just because your computer isn't rendering the environment in real-time 3D doesn't mean that are creation is done in 2D

 

They may build the basic frame for it in 3d but they do not fully flesh it out at that level. That would take a lot more time an money.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Darth Trethon

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

It's 2d, the world and maps of PE will be 2d....like the IE games.

 

Ummm ... you realize that they have to build the environment in 3D and then "bake it" into an isometric 2D perspective right? Just because your computer isn't rendering the environment in real-time 3D doesn't mean that are creation is done in 2D

I think he's referring to his original post, saying that because "it's 2D", then "it's IE tech but prettier". This is, of course, ignoring(or just being completely ignorant of) the massive underlying differences that can exist between two techologies that produce "2D" images.

 

Obviously, the core techology behind Eternity is completely different than the core technology behind the Infinity Engine games. They're just both being used to achieve a similar end-result.

[Eternitude]

Although I believe crowd funding has lots of room to grow and has potential to change the way a lot of games are developed, there are pitfalls. The story of Haunts just fell into my lap today. Fully funded Kickstarter game lost some key personnel and will probably fail. I wonder how those backers feel about funding another game.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Eternitude

[Veeno]

It's 2d, the world and maps of PE will be 2d....like the IE games.

 

Actually, because Unity is a 3D game engine, I'm pretty sure the "world" (as in the game world, what the game actually simulates) is going to be 3D, but the camera height and angle will be locked, the projection will be orthogonal (so the way characters look on screen will be the same whether they are in the middle or at the side of the screen) and the characters will actually "float" with the "world" (terrain) being a 2D backdrop behind them (which, due to the camera height and angle being locked, will look as if they are actually walking on top of the terrain).

 

Yes, you're reading this right - they're "tricking" a 3D engine into making it look like a 2D engine.

[nikolokolus]

 

They may build the basic frame for it in 3d but they do not fully flesh it out at that level. That would take a lot more time an money.

 

They do some touch-up in a photo-editing suite (like photoshop) but all of the heavy lifting is done in a 3D modeling environment.

[Veeno]

Although I believe crowd funding has lots of room to grow and has potential to change the way a lot of games are developed, there are pitfalls. The story of Haunts just fell into my lap today. Fully funded Kickstarter game lost some key personnel and will probably fail. I wonder how those backers feel about funding another game.

 

Why don't we ask them? (Scroll down to the comments.)

[syn2083]

Although I believe crowd funding has lots of room to grow and has potential to change the way a lot of games are developed, there are pitfalls. The story of Haunts just fell into my lap today. Fully funded Kickstarter game lost some key personnel and will probably fail. I wonder how those backers feel about funding another game.

 

How do people who went bankrupt in the tech bubble collapse of the 90s feel?

 

This is a snowball - that will become an avalanche, while even KS may die, crowdfunding is power, and there are literally billions of people on the planet. Setbacks, and sob stories will happen, but much like the stock market, while beaten up, it will endure, and attract more and more entities.

Edited October 20, 2012 by syn2083