Death Machine Miyagi Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I do disagree with one of the premises of this thread: that we are here to support Obsidian's design decisions. I will support Obsidian's design decisions if I think they're good. If I don't think they're good, I will criticize them, whether I have a title next to my name or not. I'll do it politely and with the understanding that they'll have the final say, as the developers, but criticize them I will. Everyone else should do the same. There's nothing dignified in being an echo chamber for designer decisions, and a lot more of interest in voicing your own opinions, arguing about what you think works and what you think doesn't work regardless of where Obsidian stands on the issue. Álrêrst lébe ich mir werde, sît mîn sündic ouge siht daz here lant und ouch die erde, der man sô vil êren giht. ez ist geschehen, des ich ie bat: ích bin komen an die stat, dâ got menischlîchen trat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deamon451 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yep. Reading an article on the newest DLC (epic adventure and content that doesn't mean a thing!!) for it pissed me off so much that I went from the $140 tier to the $750. You mean the 10$ DLC that took me roughly 4 hours to play through (I never play new concent very fast) and offered me pretty much zero replayability? It certainly made me quite exited when OE used the term "expansion" instead of "DLC". Altough in fairness, the OWB for FO:NV was a DLC, and an awesome one as well. And OWB helped a) flesh out the world, 2) provide unexpected character development (I have backstory? Cool!!), and iii) worked well either during the main game or after Hover Dam. Not all DLC is bad and I consider the FO:NV DLC to be more like mini-expansions. Rub my belly....you know you want to...give in to the temptation...and don't mind the resulting love scratches and bites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) I do disagree with one of the premises of this thread: that we are here to support Obsidian's design decisions. I will support Obsidian's design decisions if I think they're good. If I don't think they're good, I will criticize them, whether I have a title next to my name or not. I'll do it politely and with the understanding that they'll have the final say, as the developers, but criticize them I will. Everyone else should do the same. There's nothing dignified in being an echo chamber for designer decisions, and a lot more of interest in voicing your own opinions, arguing about what you think works and what you think doesn't work regardless of where Obsidian stands on the issue. That may have been a misunderstanding, as everything else I meant that in context to the order as a whole. Individual opinions are more than fine. They're great. Sorry. Edited October 16, 2012 by C2B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mist Devil Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 What's important when voicing your opinion is to remain constructive, polite and intelligent. You can disagree with a decision, but to troll it and bash at it is a no no. « Celui qui est consumé par la flamme de la justice ne craint ni le ciel, ni l’enfer ; il n’est qu’une arme attendant le jour de sa mort ». (Paul Murphy, l'Enclave, 1971) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 My only demand (and its sooooooo small) is that P:E doesn't have an ending like Mass Effect 3. You mean putting together a triology with an amazing story in the first two singleplayer focused games You've lost me here. I actually like the story of the first two games, and a lot of the sci-fi philosophy in ME generally. What I don't like is the dumbed down dialogue options (top right - you are a good guy, bottom right - you are a renegade badass! Same as DA2, altough you could also be sarcastic with the middle right there), the limited free roaming, the combat in general (take cover or suffer) and some other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deamon451 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 My only demand (and its sooooooo small) is that P:E doesn't have an ending like Mass Effect 3. You mean putting together a triology with an amazing story in the first two singleplayer focused games You've lost me here. We're waxing about the good days of Bioware and Mass Effect before EA sucked their soul out. It was in progress during ME2, really obvious in DA2, and complete in ME3. Hopefully it will be reincarnitated in another company. 1 Rub my belly....you know you want to...give in to the temptation...and don't mind the resulting love scratches and bites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsidious Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Well, I missed whatever happened that inspired this thread and haven't noticed anything beyond the usual heated arguments about people's ideal visions of cRPG heaven. However, I like that this thread seeks to prevent any irrational entitlement within the order, though I'm not sure that this is potentially much of a problem. My understanding of the order is that we 'donate' a little extra to show our love and support for Obsidian, because they are doing something special and we want to help make Eternity as good as it can be. The custom titles are just a bit of fun and are not the reason why I donated extra, and I would argue, should not be the primary reason why anyone joins the order. We should expect nothing from Obsidian because a gift is not freely given if something is expected in return. It is then no longer a gift and becomes a purchase. I do not think that we should be 'buying' a forum title, but rather pledging extra purely out of love for a group of people (company) that is putting their heart and SOUL into a cRPG that has the potential to be something very, very special. And I, through the order, pledge more than I have to because I want to put my heart and soul into Eternity too. Likewise for any in-game acknowledgement of the order. It cannot be expected lest it becomes just another backer reward and the order loses its soul. The order was founded out of love to make some extra dosh for the game. I think Obsidian recognises this, which is why they are considering some in-game reference to the order. I feel that this is fitting, yet it would matter not at all to me if this were not to happen. I am proud to be a member of the order because I give $8 of unconditional support, love and encouragement to Obsidian for making my cRPG dream come true, whatever that may turn out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCrash Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 The term "we" just don't exist. The OOoE was just an idea to promote additional pledges for PE but there is no "goal" beyond that. So there is nothing to discuss about. If someone thinks that he/she must claim something in the name of the order he/she just talks nonsense because he/she can only talk in his/her own name. So this thread is exactly what I've called it: senseless....... *We* exist. As an idea. Yes. And ideas are mighty powerful. Obsidian cares about us. They care about the *idea* of the order. They have shown that plenty of times. That is what gives said *ideas* a form/power. Why shouldn't they support an initiative coming from the fans to raise their funding and attracting more people to kickstarter? They know for sure that some of the most dedicated fans of OE and the old IE games are amongst the order's members. In fact, they give us nothing yet (forum titles are nice, but actually just a little work for one of the mods, no big deal) but we give them much. But there is still no "we" simply because of the fact that the whole order is based on the idea to be a "selfless" thing which means we just give. Nothing more. Everything else doesn't have to do anything with the order. If someone thinks he should claim anything, do so, but it's nothing "the order" as a whole is claiming. There is no common sense among the members and no way or process to come to any "decision". Sure, we can disuss things, but that's all. Without leadership there is no power and the order has no leadership and never will have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yep. Reading an article on the newest DLC (epic adventure and content that doesn't mean a thing!!) for it pissed me off so much that I went from the $140 tier to the $750. You mean the 10$ DLC that took me roughly 4 hours to play through (I never play new concent very fast) and offered me pretty much zero replayability? It certainly made me quite exited when OE used the term "expansion" instead of "DLC". Altough in fairness, the OWB for FO:NV was a DLC, and an awesome one as well. And OWB helped a) flesh out the world, 2) provide unexpected character development (I have backstory? Cool!!), and iii) worked well either during the main game or after Hover Dam. Not all DLC is bad and I consider the FO:NV DLC to be more like mini-expansions. Agreed. But expansions are still so much more fun, but DLCs vs expanions is kind of indicative of the gaming industry as a whole. More quick fixes often with little content rather than one big fix of stuff a few months down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyor Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Most of what I see are a wishlist for stretch goals, which is what the developer asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deamon451 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 My only demand (and its sooooooo small) is that P:E doesn't have an ending like Mass Effect 3. You mean putting together a triology with an amazing story in the first two singleplayer focused games You've lost me here. I actually like the story of the first two games, and a lot of the sci-fi philosophy in ME generally. What I don't like is the dumbed down dialogue options (top right - you are a good guy, bottom right - you are a renegade badass! Same as DA2, altough you could also be sarcastic with the middle right there), the limited free roaming, the combat in general (take cover or suffer) and some other stuff. I just got more and more "renegade" with the Council as the game went on. "What do you mean you don't believe me?!?! Are you blind?" With P:E I have hope of better dialog options. Maybe even with notes on the tone of the dialog option (i.e. Sarcastic: My plan is to just charge straight in). Now that would be cool. Rub my belly....you know you want to...give in to the temptation...and don't mind the resulting love scratches and bites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uomoz Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) They don't owe us anything. This was merely a way for us to show support for this project. That is all it has ever been. QFT. You didn't even buy the game, you donated money and you'll receive 1\some free copies when the game is finished. Edited October 16, 2012 by Uomoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlorn Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 They owe us one thing only; to listen. I don't think they should or will implement every thing we come up with or whine about, but they shouldn't ignore us either. Just to read what we have to say and take it with a grain (or spoonful) of salt is more than enough. I disagree. They should take the money and create a great RPG with little to no feedback from the forums. Think about a lot of the great RPGs out there. Developers had little to no feedback back when they created the best RPGs. Why should developers all of a sudden listen to consumers? I think you guys are too entitled. You're donating, not investing. You should trust them to make a great game, not expect them to listen to everyone and make a game designed by consumers. They never promised that. You know another company that listens to consumers and tries to give them everything they want? Bioware, and they make bad games because of that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I also think the point has been made. So, the thread can go under/closed. I tend to be in agreement. I also think that, for the moment, any specific concerns re: the OOoE should probably be left to the official sticky thread up top. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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