For RP/customization sake, please allow us to keep the same "armor/weapon" look if we want for new euqipment.

[Stiler]

No. How you look has nothing to do with role-playing, but everything with LARPing. This is supposed to be an RPG not a LARPing simulator.

 

How does how you look not have anything to do with role playing? It's Live Action Role Playing for a reason.

 

If you want to roleplay as Gandalf, would you not want to >look< like gandalf?

 

I dont' see how if it's "live action" role playing means what you look like matters but "Computer" role playing what you look like means nothing all of the sudden.

[ogrezilla]

No. How you look has nothing to do with role-playing, but everything with LARPing. This is supposed to be an RPG not a LARPing simulator.

 

How does how you look not have anything to do with role playing? It's Live Action Role Playing for a reason.

 

If you want to roleplay as Gandalf, would you not want to >look< like gandalf?

 

I dont' see how if it's "live action" role playing means what you look like matters but "Computer" role playing what you look like means nothing all of the sudden.

I would say graphical computer roll playing is more similar to larping than pen and paper role playing.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla

[evdk]

No. How you look has nothing to do with role-playing, but everything with LARPing. This is supposed to be an RPG not a LARPing simulator.

 

How does how you look not have anything to do with role playing? It's Live Action Role Playing for a reason.

 

If you want to roleplay as Gandalf, would you not want to >look< like gandalf?

 

I dont' see how if it's "live action" role playing means what you look like matters but "Computer" role playing what you look like means nothing all of the sudden.

This is what Oblivion has done to our hobby.

[TrashMan]

No. How you look has nothing to do with role-playing, but everything with LARPing. This is supposed to be an RPG not a LARPing simulator.

 

How does how you look not have anything to do with role playing? It's Live Action Role Playing for a reason.

 

If you want to roleplay as Gandalf, would you not want to >look< like gandalf?

 

I dont' see how if it's "live action" role playing means what you look like matters but "Computer" role playing what you look like means nothing all of the sudden.

 

I don't recall Gandalf being able to magicly change the apperance of his clothes. (dying andcoming back does not count)

If you want to RP Gandalf, then RP him properly. Gandalf would use whatever is avialable and wouldn't moan about it.

[Malcador]

How does how you look not have anything to do with role playing? It's Live Action Role Playing for a reason.

 

If you want to roleplay as Gandalf, would you not want to >look< like gandalf?

 

I dont' see how if it's "live action" role playing means what you look like matters but "Computer" role playing what you look like means nothing all of the sudden.

 

The degree to which it should matter is pretty small though, people might react to your PC wearing military armour but I can't see them caring that much because your plate and mail set A is cooler looking than B.

[sfg]

How does how you look not have anything to do with role playing? It's Live Action Role Playing for a reason.

 

Role-playing is not playing dress-up. It's about stats, not about looks.

 

If you want to roleplay as Gandalf, would you not want to >look< like gandalf?

 

You CAN'T play Gandalf (or some specific character), unless the game specifically casts you as Gandalf (that specific character). If you're playing it in "your head", then keep it there. If in your mind some random character you created is Gandalf then you can just imagine he's wearing his clothes as well.

Or, if you think that the character you created should wear THIS but definitely not THAT, RPGs are not for you and you're the cause of the decline.

 

I dont' see how if it's "live action" role playing means what you look like matters but "Computer" role playing what you look like means nothing all of the sudden.

 

Because, in real life someone actually sees you. In a computer game, nobody does. And if you think the people in the game care what you wear, you have serious troubles. Similarly, if you only play games to look cool and make screenshots to show to others, then again, please leave RPGs alone and play some dress-up game or something.

 

RPGs are not about satisfying every little disturbed fantasy of everybody out there. Why can't people just leave them alone and go play Bioware dating-sims/dress-up games?

 

RPG = stats.

RPG =/= hats

Edited September 27, 2012 by sfg

[TwinkieGorilla]

Gandalf would use whatever is avialable and wouldn't moan about it.

 

I lol'ed.

[ogrezilla]

How does how you look not have anything to do with role playing? It's Live Action Role Playing for a reason.

 

Role-playing is not playing dress-up. It's about stats, not about looks.

 

If you want to roleplay as Gandalf, would you not want to >look< like gandalf?

 

You CAN'T play Gandalf (or some specific character), unless the game specifically casts you as Gandalf (that specific character). If you're playing it in "your head", then keep it there. If in your mind some random character you created is Gandalf then you can just imagine he's wearing his clothes as well.

Or, if you think that the character you created should wear THIS but definitely not THAT, RPGs are not for you and you're the cause of the decline.

 

I dont' see how if it's "live action" role playing means what you look like matters but "Computer" role playing what you look like means nothing all of the sudden.

 

Because, in real life someone actually sees you. In a computer game, nobody does. And if you think the people in the game care what you wear, you have serious troubles. Similarly, if you only play games to look cool and make screenshots to show to others, then again, please leave RPGs alone and play some dress-up game or something.

 

RPGs are not about satisfying every little disturbed fantasy of everybody out there. Why can't people just leave them alone and go play Bioware dating-sims/dress-up games?

 

RPG = stats.

RPG =/= hats

so why do you care what we want our game to look like if the stats are all that matter to you?

[evdk]

Because it's a useless vanity feature that takes precious developer time away from things that really matter, like choices and consequences or combat mechanics. I am sorry that non matching sets of armour cause you physical pain but maybe you should seek professional help in that case instead of campaigning on a message board.

[TwinkieGorilla]

so why do you care what we want our game to look like if the stats are all that matter to you?

 

Never fight back with a strawman.

 

You know darn well nobody's saying they don't care about the overall visual aesthetic of the game. What most serious old-school gamers don't really give two flying beans about is playing dress up and house. Bethesda's forums are that-a-way ---->

[Malcador]

Because it'll eat up time for a wholly unnecessary feature.

[Stiler]

How does how you look not have anything to do with role playing? It's Live Action Role Playing for a reason.

 

Role-playing is not playing dress-up. It's about stats, not about looks.

 

If you want to roleplay as Gandalf, would you not want to >look< like gandalf?

 

You CAN'T play Gandalf (or some specific character), unless the game specifically casts you as Gandalf (that specific character). If you're playing it in "your head", then keep it there. If in your mind some random character you created is Gandalf then you can just imagine he's wearing his clothes as well.

Or, if you think that the character you created should wear THIS but definitely not THAT, RPGs are not for you and you're the cause of the decline.

 

I dont' see how if it's "live action" role playing means what you look like matters but "Computer" role playing what you look like means nothing all of the sudden.

 

Because, in real life someone actually sees you. In a computer game, nobody does. And if you think the people in the game care what you wear, you have serious troubles. Similarly, if you only play games to look cool and make screenshots to show to others, then again, please leave RPGs alone and play some dress-up game or something.

 

RPGs are not about satisfying every little disturbed fantasy of everybody out there. Why can't people just leave them alone and go play Bioware dating-sims/dress-up games?

 

RPG = stats.

RPG =/= hats

 

 

RPG's aren't merely about stats, I am not sure where you get your definition of role playing from.

 

By that degree of reasoning then we shouldn't even bother having a character creator, just pick your race and everyone of that race look the same, no need for face/hair, etc choices nor is there a need for any armor or clothing variety, just have a base model that all looks the same, it will cut down on time spent designing (in your opinion) unnecessary visual things instead of focusing solely on stats, looks mean nothing.

 

Also It's nothing about what an NPC thinks of me, I didn't even bring that up. It's about how I want my character to look, rather then being forced to use something I do not think fits my character or looks good on him.

 

I am not expecting to be able to rp Gandalf, I was merely using it as an example of how a certain "look" is tied to a character. When people think of Gandalf they picture him with his robes, etc.

 

 

and I'm the cause of the decline for rpgs? WHAT? You are just pulling things out of thin air and trying to insult me now. I fail to see how wanting to be able to have more control over how a character looks has ANY bearing on the decline of rpgs. I threw in my money on the PE kickstarter for a reason and I bought recent good rpgs like Dragon age: O (and then got shafted buying DAII, which was a major step back) and Witcher, etc.

 

There's a reason a game like Skyrim has so many visual mods, even though it's a single player rpg, because people do care how their characters look, even if you may not.

 

Because it'll eat up time for a wholly unnecessary feature.

 

I quote the post from earlier in the thread from Epsilon Rose:

 

@Ieo: Actually, from a programming standpoint it's probably trivial to separate an items image from it's stats. In fact, depending on how a game handles it's resources, they probably already are. To me it makes most sense to have the models fo each item in their own files and have the stats for items in a text based list (or series of lists) with pointers to the models. If that's the case then all they would need to do is add an if statement the goes

Get Item_slot
Get Cosmetic_slot
if (cosmetic_slot == null)
{
Character_model =Item_slot.Model;
}
else
{
Caracter_model=Cosmetic_slot.Model;
}

That's modeled on java and assumes the items stats are stored as java classes but you could implement the same thing in any number of languages.

 

so why do you care what we want our game to look like if the stats are all that matter to you?

 

Never fight back with a strawman.

 

You know darn well nobody's saying they don't care about the overall visual aesthetic of the game. What most serious old-school gamers don't really give two flying beans about is playing dress up and house. Bethesda's forums are that-a-way ---->

 

I like how you state serious old school gamers don't care about this, but older rpgs offered character creators and visual differences between armor. Genre's evolve, as rpgs have gotten more detailed graphically how a character looks has (logically) gotten to be more important as well. Just because older rpgs didn't have as highly customizable choices then doesn't mean they can't now, especially since it will be at a much higher resolution then those classic crpgs and (probably) offer a zoomable camera with 3d character models.

 

I have played crpgs since the early 90's as a kid, just agree to disagree but don't say you represent all "old school rpgers" and anyone who likes how their own character looks wants to play dress up and house as though it's an insult.

 

Computer rpgs are a visual experience, unlike PNP were you can just imagine it, you will be staring at your character throughout the entire game, so I would think you could understand how some of us would like to make our characters look as much as we want them to within the atmosphere/world of said game.

 

Bethseda's TES is one of the highest selling rpgs for a reason, sure it's not an isometeric older style rpg (of which gameplay wise I prefer) but it has it's strong points and the modders are one of them with all the upgrades and things you can do with thei game.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Stiler

[nikolokolus]

Why can't some of you accept that many of us hate this idea? This is a perfect candidate for a fan made mod, but IMO a terrible core feature.

[TwinkieGorilla]

and I'm the cause of the decline for rpgs?

 

If you're equally or more concerned with playing dress-up and house than you are actually playing the game then yes. Yes you are a part of that grand decline.

[ogrezilla]

Why can't some of you accept that many of us hate this idea? This is a perfect candidate for a fan made mod, but IMO a terrible core feature.

Because its such a minor feature that it doesn't seem deserving of strong emotion one way or another. I can see not caring about it at all. But it is just so minor that I don't see how it has any ill effect on anything. As I said a while ago, if it will take significant resources to implement, then by all means leave it out. That's a legitimate drawback. But I can't imagine that would be the case.

[evdk]

By that degree of reasoning then we shouldn't even bother having a character creator, just pick your race and everyone of that race look the same, no need for face/hair, etc choices nor is there a need for any armor or clothing variety, just have a base model that all looks the same, it will cut down on time spent designing (in your opinion) unnecessary visual things instead of focusing solely on stats, looks mean nothing.

To be honest, speaking just for myself, I truly do not a give a ****. If they tell me that I will only be able to choose from two char models per race but get two questlines and one location in return, I'll sacrifice character looks in a heartbeat.

[ogrezilla]

and I'm the cause of the decline for rpgs?

 

If you're equally or more concerned with playing dress-up and house than you are actually playing the game then yes. Yes you are a part of that grand decline.

nobody has said that. we have said that we would like a feature like this. we haven't said its a major feature that we absolutely need to have.

 

the funny part is, I have pretty much no interest in the player house that is tied to the 2M stretch goal we just reached.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla

[TwinkieGorilla]

nobody has said that. we have said that we would like a feature like this. we haven't said its a major feature that we absolutely need to have.

 

Yet some of you care enough to start a thread and post incessently about it while defending it as a TROO RPG mechanic, which it isn't.

[ogrezilla]

nobody has said that. we have said that we would like a feature like this. we haven't said its a major feature that we absolutely need to have.

 

Yet some of you care enough to start a thread and post incessently about it while defending it as a TROO RPG mechanic, which it isn't.

I'm posting because I think its ridiculous how adamant people are about keeping things out of the game that will never once take away from their own playing experience. I don't like pickles so when I order food at restaurants I don't get pickles. They could save money by not buying pickles and put an extra piece of onion on my burger. But I don't take offense to restaurants serving pickles because I know other people like them.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Undecaf]

There's a reason a game like Skyrim has so many visual mods, even though it's a single player rpg, because people do care how their characters look, even if you may not.

 

Skyrim also has a vastly different focus on gameplay (namely, no focus at all); its main objective is to run around aimlessly and pretend you're this or that (that's why there are so many porn mods too) and - if you have time and enough patience - do something that could possibly be considered a storyline by someone... perhaps. That game is designed to be a modding platform for do what you like'rs not a focused effort at a cRPG.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Undecaf

[TwinkieGorilla]

I don't like pickles so when I order food at restaurants I don't get pickles. But I don't take offense to restaurants serving pickles because I know other people like them.

 

Yes, well, unfortunately Obsidian doesn't have a magic pickle tree which allows them unlimited resources to throw in unnecessary elements.

[ogrezilla]

I don't like pickles so when I order food at restaurants I don't get pickles. But I don't take offense to restaurants serving pickles because I know other people like them.

 

Yes, well, unfortunately Obsidian doesn't have a magic pickle tree which allows them unlimited resources to throw in unnecessary elements.

do you seriously think it would take any significant resources to implement this? If it does, I would agree it shouldn't be included. As I've said over and over.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla

[evdk]

I don't like pickles so when I order food at restaurants I don't get pickles. But I don't take offense to restaurants serving pickles because I know other people like them.

 

Unfortunately the restaurant you've just entered is called Josh's Pickles.

[nikolokolus]

We dont know that it would be trivial to implement ... but i do know that this is the kind ARPG/MMOG element that breaks immersion for me because there's no semi realistic way to justify it, unless there is a crafting system.

[TwinkieGorilla]

do you seriously think it would take any significant resources to implement this? If it does, I would agree it shouldn't be included. As I've said over and over.

 

Any time spent on unnecessary Bethesdian style nonsense is significant time. Also, it worries me less about Obsidian actually doing this than it does the amount of people desiring it. You're like this stain I can't get off my nicest jacket.