ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) I can't believe how many people think games should be easy just so they can run through it as quickly as possible. I guess they expect developers to stroke their egos throughout the game this way. Challenge isn't fun. But on the other side of it, it hurts people with an average or higher IQ who want some challenge. Because we play it and think it's dull, easy, streamlined crap you get from Bethesda and Bioware. What to do what to do? I guess they'll have to take the easy difficulty or leave it. If you can't beat it, tough. read the thread. or just the dev response in my post towards the top of this page. Edited September 28, 2012 by ogrezilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlorn Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I can't believe how many people think games should be easy just so they can run through it as quickly as possible. I guess they expect developers to stroke their egos throughout the game this way. Challenge isn't fun. But on the other side of it, it hurts people with an average or higher IQ who want some challenge. Because we play it and think it's dull, easy, streamlined crap you get from Bethesda and Bioware. What to do what to do? I guess they'll have to take the easy difficulty or leave it. If you can't beat it, tough. read the thread. or just the dev response in my post towards the top of this page. I've already read the thread. You read it. I've already posted. You people are single-handily responsible for the bastardization and decline of RPGs with your demand for easier difficulties, customizable colors/clothes, less features/classes/character customization so you don't get confused, full voice acting, crappy romances, etc. You complain about RPGs today and pretend to long for RPGs of old but as soon as one comes around you're trying to turn it into Dragon Age 2/Skyrim. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) but they aren't doing anything different with difficulty than the old games. The old IE games had difficulty adjustment that allowed for an easier experience too. Just like this will do. No change for the game you or I will play at all. Edited September 28, 2012 by ogrezilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data4 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) but they aren't doing anything different with difficulty than the old games. The old IE games had difficulty adjustment that allowed for an easier experience too. Just like this will do. No change for the game you or I will play at all. Except that the resources spent on making optional easy modes are resources that could be better spent on more overall content. I don't get how people can't seem to grasp that this game is going to be made with a limited budget versus a AAA, publisher-backed title. It's quite literally a zero-sum game. Money spent on X will be money taken away from Y. Edited September 28, 2012 by Data4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieo Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) but they aren't doing anything different with difficulty than the old games. The old IE games had difficulty adjustment that allowed for an easier experience too. Just like this will do. No change for the game you or I will play at all. Except that the resources spent on making optional easy modes are resources that could be better spent on more overall content. I don't get how people can't seem to grasp that this game is going to be made with a limited budget versus a AAA, publisher-backed title. It's quite literally a zero-sum game. Money spent on X will be money taken away from Y. And yet much harder modes are part of the 2.3 stretch goal--this can mean one of two things: (1) Obsidian only cares about catering to the hardcore gamers and carebears be damned. (2) Easy and normal modes (and probably a "regular harder mode," just not "hardcore") are already guaranteed. (1) makes no sense because Obsidian wants actual sales of the game post-production, and the only way to do that is to allow more casual play, however subjective that is. (2) makes far more sense because the I.E. games always had different options including easy. Probably all of Obsidian's other games too. The problem with your viewpoint is that you're stating it as an absolute binary when market forces dictate otherwise; in other words, this isn't like romances where you're going to get stuck in the game somewhere by a companion conversation. Combat mechanics are so pervasive and fundamental to the CRPG that allowing player adjustment is a very basic and absolutely necessary form of accessibility. Locking out a goodly number of potential players for a game that Obsidian wants to franchise on post-production sales is very dangerous--this sort of thing won't happen with/without stuff like romances or cosmetics or lack/presence of a given race. There must be, at minimum, easy/normal/hard modes. In terms of finer distinctions, this should be very easy for Obsidian to compartmentalize by discrete combat mechanics, as they explain the piecemeal nature of the 2.3 stretch modes. Aaannd, I totally missed Bobby Null's post earlier, so that's that. Edited September 28, 2012 by Ieo 1 The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book. Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most? PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE. "But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger) "Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 No change for the game you or I will play at all. Okay. If catering to casuals do not affect the game you and i will play, then why are you here? I mean, how come you found yourself in a situation where you have to resort to Kickstarter to get the game you want? How did this happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtav Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 And I can't imagine a slider controlling the amount of damage enemies do is terribly resource intensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 . Combat mechanics are so pervasive and fundamental to the CRPG that allowing player adjustment is a very basic and absolutely necessary form of accessibility. "Adjustment" and "my mentally challenged brother who hates games should be able to play too" are two different things. Locking out a goodly number of potential players for a game that Obsidian wants to franchise on post-production sales is very dangerous--this sort of thing won't happen with/without stuff like romances or cosmetics or lack/presence of a given race. Not locking out a goodly number of potential players is what brought us Dragon Age 2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlorn Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 And I can't imagine a slider controlling the amount of damage enemies do is terribly resource intensive. What can you imagine though? Not how to beat any games on Hard I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 No change for the game you or I will play at all. Okay. If catering to casuals do not affect the game you and i will play, then why are you here? I mean, how come you found yourself in a situation where you have to resort to Kickstarter to get the game you want? How did this happen? catering exclusively to them does. that's not what anyone in this thread has asked for. Not a single person. This entire thread is about an optional easy mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Btw, anyone remember Blade of Darkness? That game counted the number of times you saved in a level and gave you special title ranging from "heroic" to "lame". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlorn Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 No change for the game you or I will play at all. Okay. If catering to casuals do not affect the game you and i will play, then why are you here? I mean, how come you found yourself in a situation where you have to resort to Kickstarter to get the game you want? How did this happen? catering exclusively to them does. that's not what anyone in this thread has asked for. Not a single person. This entire thread is about an optional easy mode. Which has already been confirmed so why is this thread still going? Why are the people who are asking for the optional easy mode asking for it to even be easier than that with features that take more time to develop and will shift the focus to making the game more about the easy mode? You guys are coming off as obnoxious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 No change for the game you or I will play at all. Okay. If catering to casuals do not affect the game you and i will play, then why are you here? I mean, how come you found yourself in a situation where you have to resort to Kickstarter to get the game you want? How did this happen? catering exclusively to them does. that's not what anyone in this thread has asked for. Not a single person. This entire thread is about an optional easy mode. Its always "not what anyone in this thread has asked for" and "optional". Same story year after year,oh how many times have i heard that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Traditionally, cheats have fulfilled this function better than most 'easy modes' could - because then you can control just how much you want to make it easier. If you're asking for a very, very easy mode just to get through the story, would that not be a good solution? e.g. it was a trivial matter to give yourself a few levels, or even heal your characters instantly, or even insta-kill individual monsters in IE games with cheats. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 nobody is doing that. people are calling them obnoxious for wanting something they don't care about and some of us are defending people's freedom to have their own opinion. the ones accusing others of ruining the game industry by liking an easy mode are the ones being obnoxious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) No change for the game you or I will play at all. Okay. If catering to casuals do not affect the game you and i will play, then why are you here? I mean, how come you found yourself in a situation where you have to resort to Kickstarter to get the game you want? How did this happen? catering exclusively to them does. that's not what anyone in this thread has asked for. Not a single person. This entire thread is about an optional easy mode. Its always "not what anyone in this thread has asked for" and "optional". Same story year after year,oh how many times have i heard that... did you hear it when they had easy mode in all of the old IE games? did it bother you then too? this isn't something new. Edited September 28, 2012 by ogrezilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinkieGorilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Console command: Godmode Problem solved, no? hopw roewur ne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) some of us are defending people's freedom to have their own opinion. Oh , lol, on a forum where people will be banned if mods think they are too agressive? You want freedom of opinion? Come to RpgCodex. Edited September 28, 2012 by GammaHamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) No change for the game you or I will play at all. Okay. If catering to casuals do not affect the game you and i will play, then why are you here? I mean, how come you found yourself in a situation where you have to resort to Kickstarter to get the game you want? How did this happen? catering exclusively to them does. that's not what anyone in this thread has asked for. Not a single person. This entire thread is about an optional easy mode. Its always "not what anyone in this thread has asked for" and "optional". Same story year after year,oh how many times have i heard that... did you hear it when they had easy mode in all of the old IE games? did it bother you then too? this isn't something new. It bothered me very much when i got Dragon Age 2 instead of old IE games. And decline from BG2 to DA2 happened because of apologists like you. Edited September 28, 2012 by GammaHamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malau Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I remember when I first played the infinity games, i had really really big trouble trying to learn the magic system. Wizards were awesome but planning and learning how to use the right magic and the right time was a big learning curve for me. I think if they made difficulty like in NWN 2, it should be fine, folks who never played the old games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlorn Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Console command: Godmode Problem solved, no? Yeah but then they wouldn't get that good ego stroking from Obsidian by beating the game legitly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Console command: Godmode Problem solved, no? But i don't want my mentally handicaped brother to feel like a cheater! Edited September 28, 2012 by GammaHamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) No change for the game you or I will play at all. Okay. If catering to casuals do not affect the game you and i will play, then why are you here? I mean, how come you found yourself in a situation where you have to resort to Kickstarter to get the game you want? How did this happen? catering exclusively to them does. that's not what anyone in this thread has asked for. Not a single person. This entire thread is about an optional easy mode. Its always "not what anyone in this thread has asked for" and "optional". Same story year after year,oh how many times have i heard that... did you hear it when they had easy mode in all of the old IE games? did it bother you then too? this isn't something new. It bothered me very much when i got Dragon Age 2 instead of old IE games. And decline from BG2 to DA2 happened because of apologists like you. no, because I am not defending simplifying games at the base level. Having a game like this include and easy mode and succeed would be better for the chances of this type of game coming back than having this game only sell to hardcore fans. Edited September 28, 2012 by ogrezilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metiman Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Jeez. What happened to this thread? Just a minor quibble. The fall of Bioware happened between NWN and DA1 or possibly even between BG2 and NWN. Not DA2. That is a proven fact. If you like and play DA1 then I have no idea why you would want to back this project. I think you will hate it utterly, but it's your money. Do what you want with it. And I certainly appreciate your help in funding a game for 'old school' gamers when you are clearly not one yourself. I always admire generosity. I would certainly not contribute one penny to a crowdfunded Dragon Age 1 sequel-in-spirit. 1 JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinkieGorilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Yeah but then they wouldn't get that good ego stroking from Obsidian by beating the game legitly. But i don't want my mentally handicaped brother to feel like a cheater! Heh. Hint: You're cheating if you play on 'easy' too. Edited September 28, 2012 by TwinkieGorilla 1 hopw roewur ne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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