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Two things from KotOR 2 that I would like to see

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#1
AW8

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Hello. I would like to start by saying that the only Obsidian RPG I've ever played is KotOR 2. But that game left me impressed of Obsidian's work on the characters, the story and the atmosphere.

And from friends and the internet, I've heard a lot of good stuff about Fallout: New Vegas as well. So I thought, why not give them my money for this? Isometric camera and minimal amount of voice overs doesn't scare me off, and "new IP!" and "no publisher I.E. less rushing!" really sounds enticing.

So, with that said:

1. What do you think of an influence system for your party? I have no experience of the oldschool RPG's Project Eternity is supposed to be like, so I don't know if it's probable or not in this kind of system. But I really liked it in KotOR 2, where you have to make party members like you (or hate you) to unlock more of their history and bonuses.

2. The other thing I would love to see is additional dialogue choices based on your stats (attributes, skills, whatever). Again, I have no idea if this request is realistic or not. But I loved it in KotOR 2 how your PC could point out stuff if you had raised your Awareness skill, or notice damages on droids if you had raised your Repair skill.

So what do you think? Would you like to see those things, or would you not? Do you think they are probable, or improbable?
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#2
Gorth

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So what do you think? Would you like to see those things, or would you not? Do you think they are probable, or improbable?

I think what you saw in Kotor2 was really only the "baby steps" of where Obsidian wanted to go with reactivity and influence. Stuff went overboard in Alpha Protocol (although the game suffered from other issues that makes it a game you either love or hate), and Fallout New Vegas did a decent job of integrating it into the gameplay itself (influence gained by your actions rather than dialogue). I'm fairly confident that a great deal of effort is going to be put into those mechanisms in their "own" game. Just my 0.25$
  • -Zin- and flarglebargle like this

#3
MinotaurWarrior

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I'd rather it be more multi-dimensional. So, perhaps one character might have a politics / friendship / morality set of influence axii. You agree with their faction recomendations, you get political-points. You're nice to them, you get friendship points. You agree with their moral recomendations, you get moral points. And there should be no simple "drawbacks" / "bonuses" for extreme influence levels, just consequences. So, no to AP handler bonuses, yes to everything else AP did with this stuff.

#4
Metabot

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Haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, but that sounds pretty interesting.

#5
Jozape

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1. What do you think of an influence system for your party? I have no experience of the oldschool RPG's Project Eternity is supposed to be like, so I don't know if it's probable or not in this kind of system. But I really liked it in KotOR 2, where you have to make party members like you (or hate you) to unlock more of their history and bonuses.


I liked the idea behind it in KotOR 2, but I would prefer it to be much more forgiving. I had one conversation with Visas and couldn't talk to the Last Handmaiden anymore.

2. The other thing I would love to see is additional dialogue choices based on your stats (attributes, skills, whatever). Again, I have no idea if this request is realistic or not. But I loved it in KotOR 2 how your PC could point out stuff if you had raised your Awareness skill, or notice damages on droids if you had raised your Repair skill.


Good news. This is a staple in Black Isle/Obsidian games. There's a very good chance you will see them in PE.

#6
GhostofAnakin

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I'm a fan of influence systems, if properly tweaked. So I'm on board with that, and have faith in the Obsidz guys to implement it well, if they so chose to add it as one of the features of gameplay.

Just please nothing like BioWare's influence system in Dragon Age: Origins, where someone can be indifferent to you one minute, but if you buy them a lot of gifts, suddenly you're best friends!
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#7
JediMB

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Just please nothing like BioWare's influence system in Dragon Age: Origins, where someone can be indifferent to you one minute, but if you buy them a lot of gifts, suddenly you're best friends!


Indeed.

While I like the idea of giving a companion gifts, they should in most cases be rare and not be obviously listed as "gift items". If there are gifts in the game, they should actually mean something, and not just be trinkets you buy in bulk from a vendor and throw at your companions.

Also, all the gifts in the world shouldn't be able to sway a character who hates your guts for your orphan-murdering ways.

EDIT: Also, I'd prefer not having a visible affection meter. Let the characters themselves show how much they like/hate you.

Edited by JediMB, 17 September 2012 - 09:04 AM.


#8
Kilroy_Was_Here

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It seems like there are two different types of influence systems:

1) The common one where if you do what people like/are nice to them they will like you. This usually applies to all companions if used. Seen in Dragon Age (affection meter), SWTOR

2) A rarer one where you can 'change' the outlook of a person so they will like different things. Only affects certain characters or situations, as some people are too set in their ways to be influenced by you. Seen in Dragon Age: Origins ('hardening' of characters), KOTOR2, SWTOR (sith warrior story)

I support both but have no idea how difficult they are to implement.

Edited by Kilroy_Was_Here, 17 September 2012 - 08:42 AM.


#9
AW8

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I'd rather it be more multi-dimensional. So, perhaps one character might have a politics / friendship / morality set of influence axii. You agree with their faction recomendations, you get political-points. You're nice to them, you get friendship points. You agree with their moral recomendations, you get moral points. And there should be no simple "drawbacks" / "bonuses" for extreme influence levels, just consequences. So, no to AP handler bonuses, yes to everything else AP did with this stuff.

Yes, it would be nice to see an advanced and mutli-faceted influence system.

Just please nothing like BioWare's influence system in Dragon Age: Origins, where someone can be indifferent to you one minute, but if you buy them a lot of gifts, suddenly you're best friends!


Indeed.

While I like the idea of giving a companion gifts, they should in most cases be rare and not be obviously listed as "gift items". If there are gifts in the game, they should actually mean something, and not just be trinkets you buy in bulk from a vendor and throw at your companions.

Also, all the gifts in the world shouldn't be able to sway a character who hates your guts for your orphan-murdering ways.

EDIT: Also, I'd prefer not having a visible affection meter. Let the characters themselves show how much they like/hate you.

Indeed, it would be ridiculous if you could bribe your way to friendship with your companion who is a follower of religion A, just minutes after you've set their holy site on fire on the order of religion B.

Also, with the majority of the dialogue being text and not voiced dialogue, it should be easy for Obsidian to write lots of companion dialogue that expresses their attitude towards you or other things.

1. What do you think of an influence system for your party? I have no experience of the oldschool RPG's Project Eternity is supposed to be like, so I don't know if it's probable or not in this kind of system. But I really liked it in KotOR 2, where you have to make party members like you (or hate you) to unlock more of their history and bonuses.


I liked the idea behind it in KotOR 2, but I would prefer it to be much more forgiving. I had one conversation with Visas and couldn't talk to the Last Handmaiden anymore.

Yes, or at least Obsidian has to make it clear that your action is going to have such a harsh consequence - not by flashing a giant warning sign over a certain dialogue option, but by having characters express themselves in a manner that makes it clear what their mood and opinion of you are (so they won't suddenly change from "in love with you" to "hates your guts" after a seemingly non-offensive dialogue option).

2. The other thing I would love to see is additional dialogue choices based on your stats (attributes, skills, whatever). Again, I have no idea if this request is realistic or not. But I loved it in KotOR 2 how your PC could point out stuff if you had raised your Awareness skill, or notice damages on droids if you had raised your Repair skill.


Good news. This is a staple in Black Isle/Obsidian games. There's a very good chance you will see them in PE.

That is great! :)

And this is from today's $1,5 million blog post update:

In Project Eternity, companions exist for both narrative and mechanical purposes. Companions are designed to have a driving interest in the player's central conflict. Their personalities and motivations open plot branches and generate conflicts for players to resolve over the course of the story. They are highly reactive to the player's actions and to the world around them.

It's just a sentence and doesn't give any details, but it sounds promising!

Edited by AW8, 17 September 2012 - 05:49 PM.


#10
mickeym

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I'm a fan of influence systems, if properly tweaked. So I'm on board with that, and have faith in the Obsidz guys to implement it well, if they so chose to add it as one of the features of gameplay.

Just please nothing like BioWare's influence system in Dragon Age: Origins, where someone can be indifferent to you one minute, but if you buy them a lot of gifts, suddenly you're best friends!


The gift system is actually not all that unrealistic. I know that I'd be pretty happy if someone would just randomly gift me a lot of stuff.

#11
Leferd

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No gift spamming please.

Though I seriously doubt that this is something Sawyer woul cherry pick from Bio.

#12
AW8

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I'm a fan of influence systems, if properly tweaked. So I'm on board with that, and have faith in the Obsidz guys to implement it well, if they so chose to add it as one of the features of gameplay.

Just please nothing like BioWare's influence system in Dragon Age: Origins, where someone can be indifferent to you one minute, but if you buy them a lot of gifts, suddenly you're best friends!


The gift system is actually not all that unrealistic. I know that I'd be pretty happy if someone would just randomly gift me a lot of stuff.

To a certain degree, of course. If you were a jew party member and the PC is Hitler 2.0 that just burnt down the Warzaw ghetto (with the residents still inside), I doubt his obvious attempts at manipulation by giving you loads of fruit baskets will succeed and make you like him.

But then, such extreme actions in RPG's tend to make your party member leave your party anyway, so I guess my point is kinda moot...

Edited by AW8, 17 September 2012 - 05:55 PM.


#13
Fooine

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The gift system is actually not all that unrealistic. I know that I'd be pretty happy if someone would just randomly gift me a lot of stuff.


And I guess you'd get inside the van of anyone who gives you enough candy too?

The problem with an influence system is that it can lock you out of content and dialogue with companions, especially if it only goes one way (I'm looking at you, KotOR2). Now what if the only "punishment" in terms of locked content was if you stayed apathetic towards a party member? As in, whether he strongly likes or hates you, you can still ask him about his backstory and stuff. How he feels about you decides whether this information is given in the form of a heated argument or a pleasant conversation.

Edited by Fooine, 17 September 2012 - 05:57 PM.


#14
Umberlin

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The gift system is actually not all that unrealistic. I know that I'd be pretty happy if someone would just randomly gift me a lot of stuff.


And I guess you'd get inside the van of anyone who gives you enough candy too?


No I don't think most of us would, still, it has actually happened so let's not completely get rid of a factor like gifts provided they aren't just 'anything' and that they aren't absolute certainties. Still I'm not sure how I feel about it as a main mechanic, whereas as a particular companion related event in which you could give them something would make somewhat more sense.

The problem with an influence system is that it can lock you out of content and dialogue with companions, especially if it only goes one way (I'm looking at you, KotOR2). Now what if the only "punishment" in terms of locked content was if you stayed apathetic towards a party member? As in, whether he strongly likes or hates you, you can still ask him about his backstory and stuff. How he feels about you decides whether this information is given in the form of a heated argument or a pleasant conversation.


It's something to think about certainly. At the same time content lock outs? If a character is done well, in my mind, it feels like there would be no truly 'wrong' dialogue, simply dialogue that took the companion's story, and your interactions with them, in very different directions - even if that meant into a well built up rivalry over time - possibly causing them to leave or betray you or leave and come back later for either positive or negative purpose and so on. Lots of potential ways for things to go if they're well written.

#15
Kilroy_Was_Here

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I don't think you can judge the limitations of a companion interaction system (like the lockouts) based on KOTOR2. When the development schedule was slashed for that game, who knows what was intended to be included but ended up being cut.





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