Please include women with shirts on.

[Freddo]

I support this. Chris Lightfellow is my favorite female protagonist from a video game, and she looks and behave like you would expect from a female knight.

[Alex Sherman]

snip

And why would that stop Obsidian from making a dark skinned character.

 

You have argued against something that no one was saying in the first place.

 

I think his point is fair. The question is whether a player's choice of character should be limited by the constraints of the game world. The reflex response is to the say that player choice shouldn't be limited at all, but is that ever really the case? In your average western RPG you are given a limited selection of races and classes and the option to choose your gender. Regardless of the choices you make, every character starts in the same place. Then somehow the game has to explain how every possible character that you could create has found their way to that same point, and it tends to be, to quote D3xter, "a very bad plot device." You're an orphan or you're a prisoner or you have amnesia (ugh), or you're . . . hmm . . . well, usually you're an orphan or a prisoner. Or it isn't dealt with at all. THEN, if the game designers are ambitious the world can "respond" to the type of character that you are with a limited set of scripted reactions, usually in the first five minutes and a handful of side-quests along the way. The more variety there is in character creation, the more limited the responses are.

 

 

A way that Project Eternity can avoid this, and tell a better story, is by establishing constraints that make sense within the context of the game world. Not only does this make the world richer and more consistent, but your character, too. Your character is here for this reason. D3xter's post supposes an interesting set of constraints, but Obsidian, by limiting the number of races and player choices, can work within those constraints to better craft the player's experience.

[Alex Sherman]

I suppose what I'm talking about is a middle ground between the totally open-ended D&D style character creation and the straight up one-character-branching-narrative of Planescape. But that would make sense for this game, wouldn't it?

Edited September 16, 2012 by Alex Sherman

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I prefer player choice than Dragon Age 2/Mass Effect fixed character type.

 

His original point was that a female main character wouldn't make sense. Which is kind of ridiculous isn't it. Hey I don't care if some NPC's act like a **** towards me becuase of it (like the legion in F:NV) but I don't think it's too much to ask to have a character available that represents 50% of the population. If you don't like it don't play it.

 

As for race, the same applies but in fantasy settings it's usually more about your height and your ears.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Moonlight Butterfly

[ComradeGoby]

I think people forget that sexual dimorphism is exaggerated due to culture. In most societies, men and women are not raised in the exact same environments. They do not have the same diets, they don't play the same kinds of games, they don't go into the same sports, they don't perform the same kind or amount of physical activities/exercises, they don't do the same jobs, etc. Even when you look at athletes, who may go through similar training regimes, you have to consider the differences in how they were raised from birth to the point when they got into their sport.

 

In fictional culture in which there is less difference in how men and women are raised, it is entirely possible that there would be far less difference between the sexes.

 

Not unless you change their biology.

 

Women and men are not equal. They have different things that biologically they are good at.

 

Now if they augemented themselves with technology or magic then both sexes can be equal in every way.

[Alex Sherman]

Or how about this: power armor for everyone!

[The Sharmat]

Yeah I'm pretty skeptical that a change of diet and culture would cause the physical gap between genders to shift. I'm no expert, but as far as I can tell, if anything the modern western diet would already be closing the gap if that were the case, since the foods stereotypically associated with women would tend to dely the ossification of the long bones, thus resulting in larger women; while males are eating junkfood that speeds up the process.

[Grimlorn]

I like how the hot-topic of this entire game is whether or not women should be allowed to show off cleavage or not.

 

Good to see we've got our priorities straight.

Sounds like we should just get rid of women if it's going to cause such a fuss. 16 pages of nonsense.

[D3xter]

His original point was that a female main character wouldn't make sense. Which is kind of ridiculous isn't it. Hey I don't care if some NPC's act like a **** towards me becuase of it (like the legion in F:NV) but I don't think it's too much to ask to have a character available that represents 50% of the population. If you don't like it don't play it.

 

As for race, the same applies but in fantasy settings it's usually more about your height and your ears.

That wasn't my point at all actually, my point was that I hope they first and foremost work on a believable world where I can explore interesting places, they aren't afraid to offer interesting and controversial topics for quests (a la child killer/grave robber in Fallout and similar) and great characters with their own personalities that fit in with the world. I don't want to facepalm every few steps because they felt the need to pander to every single possible audience out there.

 

e.g. I'm hoping more for a Black Isle than a BioWare game and they do have the chance to create a strong case and IP here, but with all the cries for omnisexual romances, player housing and transgender representation it's getting rather confusing on what kind of project this is going to be. It certainly feels a lot more Biowarian, if not outright fan-fictious what people want.

 

If you'd ask me I'd rather there be no "romances" at all and they neither listen to the people that want characters to look like in JRPGs, nor the people outraged at the least bit of sexuality emanating from any character. For instance people over on the Penny Arcade forums seemed to be already mildly outraged over this from the presentation video because "boob plates" instead of being happy about the possible inclusion of muskets, and possibly bombs!:

 

Edited September 16, 2012 by D3xter

[Giantevilhead]

I think people forget that sexual dimorphism is exaggerated due to culture. In most societies, men and women are not raised in the exact same environments. They do not have the same diets, they don't play the same kinds of games, they don't go into the same sports, they don't perform the same kind or amount of physical activities/exercises, they don't do the same jobs, etc. Even when you look at athletes, who may go through similar training regimes, you have to consider the differences in how they were raised from birth to the point when they got into their sport.

 

In fictional culture in which there is less difference in how men and women are raised, it is entirely possible that there would be far less difference between the sexes.

 

Not unless you change their biology.

 

Women and men are not equal. They have different things that biologically they are good at.

 

Now if they augemented themselves with technology or magic then both sexes can be equal in every way.

I think people forget that sexual dimorphism is exaggerated due to culture. In most societies, men and women are not raised in the exact same environments. They do not have the same diets, they don't play the same kinds of games, they don't go into the same sports, they don't perform the same kind or amount of physical activities/exercises, they don't do the same jobs, etc. Even when you look at athletes, who may go through similar training regimes, you have to consider the differences in how they were raised from birth to the point when they got into their sport.

 

In fictional culture in which there is less difference in how men and women are raised, it is entirely possible that there would be far less difference between the sexes.

 

Not unless you change their biology.

 

Women and men are not equal. They have different things that biologically they are good at.

 

Now if they augemented themselves with technology or magic then both sexes can be equal in every way.

 

Except I never said that men and women can be equal in every way. I said that sexual dimorphism is exaggerated due to society and culture. A society in which there is less differences in how men and woman raised and treated will likely result in less sexual dimorphism.

[Fionavar]

Feel free to continue this discussion anew. But it seems that - this particular manifestation - has taken on too many facets that contravenes Obsidian's Forum Guidelines in respect to the following:

 

Discrimination: Obsidian has a zero-tolerance policy with regard to racial, ethnic, gender, religious, disablement, and/or sexually discriminating remarks.

 

For those who are new to the community or are old school, but need reminding, Obsidian is very clear about insuring an inclusive atmosphere. Chauvinism and misogyny, in any form, has no place within our community. Okay that's it from the Roost for tonight

 

Fionavar