Movies you've seen recently

[Morgoth]

You may perceive it as dumb, but I liked the fact that the intentions of the Engineers, and that whole "why?" remained vague.

 

There is a difference between remaining vague and not adressing it at all. This film asks the question and then ignores the hell out of it. A smart movie would have dealt with implications, theories, asked more questions. This movie confirmed the Engineers as our creators in one breath and routinely ignored everything about it.

 

It didn't ignore these questions. Maybe you should just pay more attention then.

[Blarghagh]

Okay, explain to me how Prometheus dealt at all with how the knowledge of being created by an Alien race or knowledge of what purpose we were created for would impact the human race? Other than Peter Weyland's idiot ball moment of figuring that these Aliens, of which they've just found a dozen corpses, have unlocked the secrets to immortality?

[Amentep]

I also wish they hadn't shown the birth of that proto Xenomorph, because while the common theory was already that Xenomorphs were a genetically engineered weapon because they were perfect killing machines. This movie simultaneously confirms and undermines that concept - because now it's the perfect killing machine due to a set of coincidental contaminations and inseminations. It's so contrived now that it makes no sense anymore, they are the product of engineering but they are the perfect weapon by coincidence?

 

I dunno, the Engineer's making the aliens seems a bit weird in light of the door with the relief of what appeared to be the Xenomorph before the birth of the proto-Xenomorph and the fact that the other Engineer ship found in Alien is somewhere other than this planet (ie the proto-Xenomorph isn't the first Xenomorph, so I'm not sure we can say the Engineer's created them - they could just be trying to use them for their own purposes).

 

or something. need to watch the film again.

[Blarghagh]

I agree, but I choose to believe that this was the birth of the proto-Xenomorph, because why else is the entire climax leading up to that, from the creation of proto-Facehugger to putting the antagonist in the right place to get a face full of his alien Wing Wong? If the Xenomorph was pre-this, what was the entire point of the end of the movie? It spends far too much time getting the pieces into place for that reveal.

[Morgoth]

Okay, explain to me how Prometheus dealt at all with how the knowledge of being created by an Alien race or knowledge of what purpose we were created for would impact the human race? Other than Peter Weyland's idiot ball moment of figuring that these Aliens, of which they've just found a dozen corpses, have unlocked the secrets to immortality?

 

It doesn't explain everything to detail, it only allures to certain possibilities. I don't like having everything shoved down my throat, not every movie needs a prefect conculsion. Use your imagination. And if that doesn't help, there still might be answers in Prometheus 2.

[Blarghagh]

Yeah, and Stephen Summers Mummy movies deal with the psychological horror of being in a state of undeath because I read that into it with my imagination. That's ridiculous and you know it. A movie either deals with something or it doesn't. If it deals with it vaguely, fine, then it's saying "use your imagination, have fun with it". This movie doesn't deal with it at all. A throwaway line is not intelligent treatment of a subject.

[Amentep]

I don't like having everything shoved down my throat, not every movie needs a prefect conculsion.

 

In Alien related films, this is always a bad thing!

[Morgoth]

You don't like mysteries huh? Kids these days.

[Blarghagh]

To have a mystery you have to set up the pieces. You can't have a character say "Jack the Ripper" in your victorian London movie and then claim it has mystery because it references something unknown. This movie shoves facts down your throat which should have been mysteries (the first scene in the film is "Hi I'm an Alien and I'm making you humans"), and then ignores the mysteries set up by this. The problem here is that this movie DOESN'T allow you to use your imagination because it either flat out tells you everything or doesn't give you any hints or puzzle pieces for a mystery to take form. There is a differences between leaving things open and using ambiguity as an excuse not to deal with the gaping plot holes in your script. When the movies done, the interesting mysteries are solved and it doesn't deal with any of them. There is no mystery, nothing is left open (even the question of "why" concerning the Engineers' actions is already answered due to Holloway and David's exchange on why humanity made Androids) and it doesn't deal with any of the developments it has. To say you like this because of the mystery makes me think you were the one not paying attention.

 

What I'm saying is not that I want everything in a neatly wrapped up package, what I want is for things that happen to matter. Here, everything is presented as fact and then the film moves on to something else in an equally blunt manner without adressing anything about it. A character has a freaking caesarian section and the only aftermath she presents is the occassional limp. It doesn't get any more "oh it's just about our perfect plot, not any real human implications". It's designed to give the audience everything in the most simple and boring way possible.

Edited September 19, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Morgoth]

"Hi I'm an Alien and I'm making you humans"

 

It doesn't say that. We don't even know if that was on Earth. We know nadding, and I love it. The truth ought not to be explained so childishly easy.... for that we have James Cameron.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Morgoth

[Blarghagh]

Just because it doesn't say "Earth" on the title card doesn't mean it's not perfectly spelled out by the movie. Counting that as "mystery" is just reading more into it because you don't want to accept how badly this movie treats it. It's still being shoved down your throat, as much as you try to suppress that gag reflex of yours.

Edited September 19, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Morgoth]

If you can't enjoy a well made movie then maybe you should change hobbies? Reading? Hiking?

[Blarghagh]

If you can't have a discussion without continuously trying to undermine the other person instead of actually discussing the subject (yes, I did notice all your oh so subtle "but you enjoyed Avatar" digs) then maybe you should learn to be able to deal with differing opinions. I can enjoy well made movies, I can even enjoy movies that have weaknesses. Prometheus is all weakness with no strengths. It has no redeeming features and quite probably destroyed the chances of smart sci-fi movies getting picked up by Studios any time soon. It is both as a movie and by consequences the worst thing to happen to sci-fi in the last fourty years and defending it is an insult to anybody who enjoys a good science fiction movie.

Edited September 19, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Morgoth]

I'm just saying, somebody who claims the AvP movies were better than Prometheus is obviously not knowing much about movies and thus not worth in my opinion to argue with. I could write down 3000 words why this and why that but you already made up your mind so I won't bother. That's fine.

[Blarghagh]

Fair enough. You obviously weren't arguing with me in this thread when you were, then. Glad you admit you're just trolling.

 

On the other hand, I stand by the opinion that even the abysmal AvP Requiem was better than Prometheus. Whereas AvP was groan-inducing, Prometheus was so over the top bad that all I could do was laugh at it. For having over four times the budget, damn straight that makes it a worse movie. I know low budget special effects people who would quit if they ever made anything as bad as mutated Fifield. At least AvP could only kill a franchise, not an entire genre.

Edited September 19, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Morgoth]

So it's all about special effects now? Aha. Nice to see *you* were just trolling me the whole time.

[Amentep]

Just because it doesn't say "Earth" on the title card doesn't mean it's not perfectly spelled out by the movie. Counting that as "mystery" is just reading more into it because you don't want to accept how badly this movie treats it. It's still being shoved down your throat, as much as you try to suppress that gag reflex of yours.

 

Actually I'm pretty sure that it isn't Earth.

 

The earth people believe that the Engineers created them, that the Engineers are - in effect God. But they also believe that they left the maps so that they could find them in a positive way. One thing the film does is tend to show that the assumptions the Earth people make - that they're gods, that they'll make man immortal, that they'll help us, that maps will help them find the exit - are wrong. So why not that they created us? Or created the Xenomorphs?

 

The movie is ambiguous on the point but the evidence is that either the Engineers left the map to warn them away or left the map as a lure so they could destroy those who had the ability to find and trip the trap. At least that's how I took it.

 

EDIT - to me then, the opening is a dodge; it makes the audience think along the lines of the Earth people until mounting evidence is supposed to make you rethink the position.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Amentep

[Blarghagh]

So it's all about special effects now? Aha. Nice to see *you* were just trolling me the whole time.

 

Thanks for making me your strawman because I take special effects into consideration when discussing this 130 million dollar bomb, but since you brought it up, yes, there is nothing to this movie but special effects. Which means it's worse when they turn out to be on the level of a Sy Fy Original. A budget like that means you rise above the level of early Buffy episode special effects, but that's far from the biggest problem with this movie.

 

As for the AvP comparison - the dumbest scientists on earth find similar markings all over the world* and use these as a guide to go to a hostile, alien built environment funded by a dying Mr Weyland who tags along in hopes of finding immortality. Sound familiar? There is generalizing plots to make it sound like a ripoff, and there is simply ripoff plots. Yes, I'm saying that not only is AvP better than Prometheus, Prometheus goes out of it's way to rip it off despite Ridley Scott publicly denouncing the AvP franchise. And the markings thing? Revenge of the Fallen. There you go. These are the films with comparable plots to Prometheus, to the point that AvP had almost the same plot. There's more than a little hero worship going on if you truly think this is a good film. It's going to take a lot more for an intelligent person to accept a movie that flat out states "Darwin was wrong" and then fails to back it up with anything other than "we can make this disembodied head twitch and explode with gooey special effects". Since you're trolling me to come out and say it anyway, this movie is dumb and you're dumb for liking it. It is truly one of the worst films ever made and Ridley Scott should be ashamed of making it and you should be ashamed of yourself for liking it.

 

Just because it doesn't say "Earth" on the title card doesn't mean it's not perfectly spelled out by the movie. Counting that as "mystery" is just reading more into it because you don't want to accept how badly this movie treats it. It's still being shoved down your throat, as much as you try to suppress that gag reflex of yours.

 

Actually I'm pretty sure that it isn't Earth.

 

The earth people believe that the Engineers created them, that the Engineers are - in effect God. But they also believe that they left the maps so that they could find them in a positive way. One thing the film does is tend to show that the assumptions the Earth people make - that they're gods, that they'll make man immortal, that they'll help us, that maps will help them find the exit - are wrong. So why not that they created us? Or created the Xenomorphs?

 

The movie is ambiguous on the point but the evidence is that either the Engineers left the map to warn them away or left the map as a lure so they could destroy those who had the ability to find and trip the trap. At least that's how I took it.

 

EDIT - to me then, the opening is a dodge; it makes the audience think along the lines of the Earth people until mounting evidence is supposed to make you rethink the position.

 

I'm going to admit that this idea sounds a lot more intriguing than what's presented in the movie, but I can't give the writers enough credit to think an epileptic tree such as this could be correct. We are talking about a script that had a random zombie attack in the middle of the movie that had no purpose in the film and is never adressed again.

 

EDIT: Alternatively, we are talking about a script that allowed this travesty of a scene to happen:

Edited September 19, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Amentep]

 

I'm going to admit that this idea sounds a lot more intriguing than what's presented in the movie, but I can't give the writers enough credit to think an epileptic tree such as this could be correct. We are talking about a script that had a random zombie attack in the middle of the movie that had no purpose in the film and is never adressed again.

 

EDIT: Alternatively, we are talking about a script that allowed this travesty of a scene to happen:

 

 

I thought that bit was incredibly weak in the film - and also unnecessary. That character could have been taken care of a scene later if they needed to be offed and would have worked in context of the movie much better.

 

I'm not going to argue PROMETHEUS is a good or great film. I liked it though. I also liked AvP to some extent (hated the 2nd one though). But then, I also enjoyed THE BEAST OF YUCCA FLATS so a film being good or great is not really a pre-requisite for me liking it.

[Blarghagh]

Fair enough, despite my annoyance at Morgoth (it kills me that his trolling gets to me and it kills me even more that I keep pressing the friggin' "View it anyway?" button next to "This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Morgoth.") I don't actually hate anyone for liking this movie. I like a fair share of bad movies. But this movie is really bad, and it does annoy me when people pretend it isn't.

 

Something funny I found regarding "unanswered questions" in the film. Remember when they the Engineers were killed by their goop turning against them around 2000 years ago? Here's what Ridley Scott told Movies.com about that:

 

Movies.com: We had heard it was scripted that the Engineers were targeting our planet for destruction because we had crucified one of their representatives, and that Jesus Christ might have been an alien. Was that ever considered?

 

Ridley Scott: We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose. But if you look at it as an “our children are misbehaving down there” scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, "Let's send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it." Guess what? They crucified him.

 

So Ridley has answered the final open question - why do the engineers want us dead? Because we killed Space Jesus.

 

EDIT: Anyway, I've said all I can about how dumb this movie is. I'm going to ignore it's existence from now on, because the only thing I can get from this now is this:

 

 

To change the subject: I watched Cabin in the Woods, which was surprisingly clever and funny, although I did feel it was a bit too proud of how clever it was. It almost seemed arrogant that it could toy with expectations so well. I don't think it'd hold up on a second viewing because it relies on surprises. Also, the ending was kinda dumb, although I enjoyed that it ended with

the end of the world.

 

 

Well worth watching once, though.

Edited September 19, 2012 by TrueNeutral

[Serrano]

 

Thanks, that was great

Edited September 19, 2012 by Serrano

[Blarghagh]

Aw, why did you copy over your hilarious tale of male pattern baldness?

[Amentep]

Fair enough, despite my annoyance at Morgoth (it kills me that his trolling gets to me and it kills me even more that I keep pressing the friggin' "View it anyway?" button next to "This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Morgoth.") I don't actually hate anyone for liking this movie. I like a fair share of bad movies. But this movie is really bad, and it does annoy me when people pretend it isn't.

 

Something funny I found regarding "unanswered questions" in the film. Remember when they the Engineers were killed by their goop turning against them around 2000 years ago? Here's what Ridley Scott told Movies.com about that:

 

Movies.com: We had heard it was scripted that the Engineers were targeting our planet for destruction because we had crucified one of their representatives, and that Jesus Christ might have been an alien. Was that ever considered?

 

Ridley Scott: We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose. But if you look at it as an “our children are misbehaving down there” scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, "Let's send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it." Guess what? They crucified him.

 

So Ridley has answered the final open question - why do the engineers want us dead? Because we killed Space Jesus.

 

 

I think the Space Jesus angle is stupid as well. Luckily since its not in the movie and I ascribe to the idea that what the author intended is irrelevant to what is in the work, I can ignore it.

[Serrano]

I took it as a tragic movie warning about reckless and dangerous research in the pursuit of noble goals. In this case, a cure for male pattern baldness. The film opens with a failed experiment that led to the evolution of a planet full of life-forms with hair, but no other engineers were there to see how close they had come and so went down other dangerous avenues for millennia until they infested their ship with (also bald) monsters that killed all but one of the crew. Then when that crewman is revived, he is met by an inferior species that have so much hair. Even their machines have hair. And it's too much for him and this would-be-humanitarian goes on a killing spree and everyone dies except for (typically) the character with the most hair and the decapitated android that also has hair.

[Amentep]

You know, I like that interpretation!