Debt crisis

[Walsingham]

It is in no country

Edited October 21, 2011 by Walsingham

[Gorth]

Sadly, my recommendations for dealing with corporate fat cats is not work safe and would land me in trouble. A shame really, as it is very graphical, almost a piece of impressionistic art

 

As long as the personal risk for the decision makers is negligible compared to potential personal gains, you are going to fight an uphill battle for stability.

[Raithe]

That puts me in mind of a quote..

 

A good economist is worth a dozen spies and two fleets. Unfortunately, the fleets and spies are far easier to come by. -- L.E. Modesitt, Jr.

[Walsingham]

Starters for ten:

 

1) On our current course what will happen?

 

2) What action options do we have?

[Morgoth]

It is in no country

[Walsingham]

I am anti EU as it happens. But economically speaking a collapse of one or more European states is so bad it should be self-evident.

[WDeranged]

Yeah I wouldn't been keen on a rapid collapse of the EU but I do think that when a problem is allowed to grow to an extreme size eventually you have to face it and endure the suffering before you can heal.

 

I'm hoping for the best and planning for the worst.

[Morgoth]

I'm "mostly" pro-EU, but the way the EU parliament and the commission handle everything right now is a disgrace.

 

The idea of a federalized Europe is good (as long as it isn't modeled after the USA, which would be a disaster), it's just that the quality of the leaders and the lack of courage to implement important but painful measures...is just not there.

[WDeranged]

I don't see a federal Europe ever working without some pretty drastic changes in society, culture and economics across the continent, I don't trust unelected officials to foster these changes wisely, much of what they do appears to be coercive, tricky and sometimes downright dictatorial.

 

*edit*

 

Though I just realised that you could apply the "coercive, tricky and dictatorial" part to most of our elected democracies

Edited October 21, 2011 by WDeranged

[Morgoth]

It's not like the elected politicians act any better...

 

Like I said, it's the quality of the politicians that matter.

[Walsingham]

What would be the _point_ of this federalised Europe? Economic? We used to have an economic union, without political bilge thrown in.

 

My view of federations is that as oon as money starts heading to the central authority, political power chases after it. You get a one way slide, at varying speeds towards the US situation, where states cannot exert any serious independence. I hope GD, who has spent more time studying this, will back me up.

[Gorth]

What would be the _point_ of this federalised Europe? Economic? We used to have an economic union, without political bilge thrown in.

I still have my vote no to Maastricht campaign t-shirt from 1992. It has one Danish and five EU flags and the text 'Find five errors'

[bigcrazewolf]

Sadly, my recommendations for dealing with corporate fat cats is not work safe and would land me in trouble. A shame really, as it is very graphical, almost a piece of impressionistic art

 

As long as the personal risk for the decision makers is negligible compared to potential personal gains, you are going to fight an uphill battle for stability.

 

I think I wholly agree with you, oh ya also props to occupy wall street an hoping it turns to occupy the world.

 

I don't know how it is in Europe but here in Corporate America, well there you have it the corps. own our useless politicians and the choices they make for us. Abolish lobbying now !!

 

I watched some very disturbing vids on the occupy WS facebook page, people being arrested for closing there bank accounts, some $people$ on the balcony of the WS building drinking champagne while laughing and pointing at the protesters.....I truly am a sad American today.

[Walsingham]

Again, so long as free people vote for the politician with the most expensive ad campaign, politicians will chase money. Those are the rules of the game AS WE DEFINE THEM.

[bigcrazewolf]

But it ends up being all of them sooner or later Wals.

[Pidesco]

It's not like the elected politicians act any better...

 

Like I said, it's the quality of the politicians that matter.

 

 

It's important to remember that politicians are carved from the general population block, especially in a democratic state. Politicians are as good as the people that vote for them.

[Rosbjerg]

Politicians are as good as the people that vote for them.

 

 

How very Joesph de Maistre of you. But of course true.. As long as being an idiot, backstabbing everyone to get ahead and doing anything to get a few mulah, is the norm - our leaders are gonna be money grabbing attention whores.

[bigcrazewolf]

It's not like the elected politicians act any better...

 

Like I said, it's the quality of the politicians that matter.

 

 

It's important to remember that politicians are carved from the general population block, especially in a democratic state. Politicians are as good as the people that vote for them.

 

 

Not true, good people are had all the time especially when we're told lies.

 

I will say this is my opinion, just as you have yours...trust me I wish it was the way you feel.

[Walsingham]

Th ereally weird thing is that in the Uk we have locally directly elected Members of Parliament. Almost anyone has the opportunity to meet their MP really really easily. And with the election of that MP usually turning on a couple of thousand people the MP pays attention to what you say/ask. Yet no bastard takes advantage of this.

 

Anyway, haven't eaten so much as a biscuit today. getting a bit scatty. Should go out and get some food.

[Pidesco]

It's not like the elected politicians act any better...

 

Like I said, it's the quality of the politicians that matter.

 

 

It's important to remember that politicians are carved from the general population block, especially in a democratic state. Politicians are as good as the people that vote for them.

 

 

Not true, good people are had all the time especially when we're told lies.

 

I will say this is my opinion, just as you have yours...trust me I wish it was the way you feel.

 

 

Most people aren't good. Mostly due to a lack of opportunities, education, or a difficult socio-economic environment. I don't think people aren't fundamentally good or bad, but social constraints make sure more people turn out bad than good.

 

As I look at people around me, I'm getting increasingly disillusioned with Democratic government. Mostly because strong leaders are necessary, at least from time to time, and I don't think democracies breed those without severe limitation of the election process, or some massive external factor to make the selfish choice the best choice for a country.

[bigcrazewolf]

It's not like the elected politicians act any better...

 

Like I said, it's the quality of the politicians that matter.

 

 

It's important to remember that politicians are carved from the general population block, especially in a democratic state. Politicians are as good as the people that vote for them.

 

 

Not true, good people are had all the time especially when we're told lies.

 

I will say this is my opinion, just as you have yours...trust me I wish it was the way you feel.

 

 

Most people aren't good. Mostly due to a lack of opportunities, education, or a difficult socio-economic environment. I don't think people aren't fundamentally good or bad, but social constraints make sure more people turn out bad than good.

 

As I look at people around me, I'm getting increasingly disillusioned with Democratic government. Mostly because strong leaders are necessary, at least from time to time, and I don't think democracies breed those without severe limitation of the election process, or some massive external factor to make the selfish choice the best choice for a country.

 

 

When people use the excuse of lack of opportunities, education, or a difficult socio-economic environment as to why they turned out "bad", are just that way. I am from a poor family, alcoholic dad that knocked me and mom around(he did get sober though), never had a chance to goto college, but I think I'm a "good" person.

 

I certainly believe the people in America as a whole are way better than any of the officials we elect.

[Pidesco]

I'm not excusing anyone, I'm noting what I perceive around me. I certainly had plenty of opportunities and, generally, a bountiful life. Most right bastards I see around me certainly see themselves as good people, despite being racists, generally xenophobes, homophobes, drunks, chauvinists, etc.

 

As for people in America:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_prsgZnPMQg

[bigcrazewolf]

No need to be hurtful.

[Pidesco]

Sorry. I wasn't attacking Americans. That Blazing Saddles bit fits any country.

[bigcrazewolf]

It was a good laugh clip though.