Limited camera movement

[Assassinka]

Dear development team,

DS3 is beautiful game but theres one thing that disappoints me when compared with DS2.

That thing is very limited camera movement and impossibility to remap camera to for example right mouse button.

To be more specific, the camera tilt should be enabled to go lower to see whats in front of me and zoom out should enable more distant view on battlefield to have an overview over locations nearby.

I'd like to ask if it's planned to add these features in patch you announced to release.

Thanks in advance for your response.

Faithful DS follower

[Stepp N Wolf]

Dear development team,

DS3 is beautiful game but theres one thing that disappoints me when compared with DS2.

That thing is very limited camera movement and impossibility to remap camera to for example right mouse button.

To be more specific, the camera tilt should be enabled to go lower to see whats in front of me and zoom out should enable more distant view on battlefield to have an overview over locations nearby.

I'd like to ask if it's planned to add these features in patch you announced to release.

Thanks in advance for your response.

Faithful DS follower

 

 

I was going to start a thread on this very topic, but since you already have let me add to it. I thought maybe this was just a PS3 (or console) issue, but you sound like your on a PC so I'm guessing it's not.

The camera angle in this game is way to high. You simply cannot look and see what is right in front of you. The two view modes seem to be high and tight, or satellite. This problem stands out the worse when going up a hill or path, it looks like your running up a wall as the ground is the only thing you see.

I couldn't agee more with you this is a beautiful game with graphics and effects second to none. In fact that is why I created this account and am making this post. I am truly excited for the future of this game. I love the skill system. I love the characters. I love the storyline. I love the fighting. I love the music. I love the graphics (when I can see them) . They are very detailed and I can tell a lot of work was put into them. That's why I see it as almost tragic we cannot see them and admire the work easier. Here are a couple examples: (1)Standing next to a waterfall and only seeing the bottom of it when I would love to see the whole thing. (2)In a ruin I was standing right in front of a statue of "The Farmer" but I could not see it. I had to move to the side of it and go into satellite veiw just to even tell it was there. (3) I'm fighting a giant spider the size of a 2 story house, and over 1/2 the battle he was off camera. (4)Being in the city of Stonebridge and not being able to look up and see the skyline.

As I stated earlier I'm very excited for the future of this game. I keep hearing the term "Co-Op dungeon crawler" when to me it is just a shy step away from a franchise RPG equal to that of Oblivion, Mass Effect, or GTA (just to name a few) and I truly mean that. If this camera view issue can be worked out I have absolutly no doubt it will become one. Best Wishes, Stepp

[Malakhi]

The issue is that DS3 is a console port to PC. As such the camera limitations are just one of many 'flaws' in the game when comparing to the likes of DS2 or similar. So, unless Obsidian/Square Enix start developing titles for specific/individual platforms this will always be the case, sadly. I completely understand the financial implications of this as a business; it just makes me a sad bunny.....

 

To make my point, I bought DS3 off the shelf when I had actually gone in for a different title. I hadn't even heard DS3 was being released so just bought it on the strength of DS1 & 2. It didn't even occur to me that Gas Powered Games were no longer the developer, and in fact even if I had spotted Obsidian had taken on the gauntlet I would still have gotten it.

 

I do have to admit it is a title brimming with 'eye candy' and generally the gameplay is pretty damn good, albeit a departure from the style of its predecessors. It's just this little niggles i.e. camera and key mapping (or lack of) that remind me it's a console port, and demotes it into the league of good titles as opposed to being a great one.

[Assassinka]

I do understand that this is implementation issue but if they use their own engine its a small change in source code, no extra coding is needed, if there is no problem with distant view because of z-buffer use, and if they announced patch to fix some pc issues it's worth to mention it

[ArcaneHoplite]

I have just joined this forum, to make a thread on the very same issue. I got this game yesterday for Xbox 360. The game looks beautiful, but the camera angle SUCKS! Big time! I feel like I am slightly looking towards the floor, instead of up front and ahead. Its awful! Who on earth signed that off? Its so bad, I had to turn the game off, and went back to Dragon Age. Is there anything I can do within the settings? I want to pan the camera a couple of inches further up, but it just won't let me. I like the zoom out feature for fights etc, but the angle thats being forced on me is a gamebreaker. I cant play anymore until this major flaw is dealt with. Gutted!

[Assassinka]

I have just joined this forum, to make a thread on the very same issue. I got this game yesterday for Xbox 360. The game looks beautiful, but the camera angle SUCKS! Big time! I feel like I am slightly looking towards the floor, instead of up front and ahead. Its awful! Who on earth signed that off? Its so bad, I had to turn the game off, and went back to Dragon Age. Is there anything I can do within the settings? I want to pan the camera a couple of inches further up, but it just won't let me. I like the zoom out feature for fights etc, but the angle thats being forced on me is a gamebreaker. I cant play anymore until this major flaw is dealt with. Gutted!

 

I've got same problem, bought game in preorder and couldn't wait for it to release but when i played couple of minutes i gave up and now i wait if they'll do something with it. Can't play it that way.

[Stepp N Wolf]

If I had to guess on this I don't think this can be fixed. As I don't believe this game has an "up". Why design skys, clouds, treetops, birds, or city skylines (any upward view) if nobody can see them anyways? A sad and dire short-cut to a game that deserved better IMO. I hope someone will pick-up the "ball", run with it, take this game to the next level, and fully develope this game as it deserves. I'm sure they will reap the rewards for doing so. I know I'd be there for it. Stepp

[C2B]

I don't really think this is an issue. At all.

 

The game/battle system/levels/art assets everything was designed for top down view and work. Whats so bad about it? It would greatly benefit from having a zoom function but thats about it.

 

Also what would be the benefit from seeing further?

Edited July 11, 2011 by C2B

[LadyCrimson]

I don't really think this is an issue. At all.

I'm in agreement.

 

People have personal preferences that can block them out of enjoying things, tho...we all do. Still, I have a difficult time seeing the general viewpoint of a game being a gamebreaker...and it's certainly not a bug/technical issue that needs to be 'fixed.'

 

More zoom out for MP would be useful tho, and it'd be nice if the camera didn't swing around to give you a close up of your chraracter's nose when you run up against a wall or something, but other than that...

[Assassinka]

I don't really think this is an issue. At all.

 

The game/battle system/levels/art assets everything was designed for top down view and work. Whats so bad about it? It would greatly benefit from having a zoom function but thats about it.

 

Also what would be the benefit from seeing further?

 

The problem is that DS 1 and 2 was not designed for top down view and i have problems adapting myself for that view because it's not natural for me, normally you see what's in front of you and you can see where your enemies are to prepare to fight. Not to rush when suddenly enemy appears on viewport from out of nowhere. That is my reply to your question It's just a matter of opinion. If you play mostly games with top down view you have no problems with it but for someone this view is unnatural.

[C2B]

I don't really think this is an issue. At all.

 

The game/battle system/levels/art assets everything was designed for top down view and work. Whats so bad about it? It would greatly benefit from having a zoom function but thats about it.

 

Also what would be the benefit from seeing further?

 

The problem is that DS 1 and 2 was not designed for top down view

 

 

DS1 was top down/iso. The camera there worked better though as it had better zoom and you could scroll.

 

Rereading your first post. Am I right thinking that you meant just to zoom the camera out more to see whats ahead? Because my answer was more for the people that wanted Witcher 2 style third person view.

 

I'm with you if its that though I think it works well enough at the moment.

Edited July 12, 2011 by C2B

[Stepp N Wolf]

Yes top-down view by design. It's not a "gamebreaker" to me as I am still playing and enjoying this game. But I'm an old gamer and man, who uses top-down view ONLY in gaming anymore? To me it's as obsolite as side-scrollers. C2B you are correct that all we want to do really is to see further foward, you know, to spot and plan for a battle before aggro.

 

I think one thing everyone in this thread could agree on is this game needs a "free-zoom" both in and out. I never play MP so LC surprised me by saying she would like the view even further out, but I can understand that too. But LC if you couldn't pin the camera against a wall and with no zoom, that is really the only way to get a close view of the characters. And I would have never seen the cute freckles on Katarina's nose which I adore! hehehe

 

As I said I'm an old gamer and have seen many games "grow-up" over the years. Even GTA was a 2D scroller at one point in time. So what I like to do is not only see a game for what it is, but also imagine what it could be. That's why I'm excited for this game. Imagine the great cut-scenes this game could have had instead of the just the art-work. Jayne leading the masses to slaughter the Leigon who refused to draw swords. That could have been an opener that set the mood for the entire game. Or a cut-scene where a whole army storms a mine only to have it blow-up in thier faces, glorious! Or how cool a cut-scene it could have been to see the army of robots marching forward. This games cut-scenes could have been epic no doubt. And for the future versions of this game, why not go full RPG? Keep the current characters as NPC helpers/sidekicks/heros, and make new classes instead i.e. warrior, fire mage, gunner, mage, or others. Make a charater creater so we can make our own playable characters either male or female then choose a class. With the great skill system already in place and the ability to choose male or females of each class would add massive replay-ability. But wait I'm not done yet, want even more replayability then that? How about then adding races that already exsist in the game. How about a Female Goblin Mage, a Male Cyclops Warrior, or a Female Krug Shooter? With that many options a 20 hour game could be enjoyed for 200+ hours easily. Heck most of this RPG stuff is already in place, just add the cut-scenes, the classes and charachter creater, a romance option or two with the NPC heros, and you've got a Franchise RPG Game of the Year! Stepp

[C2B]

No on both accounts.

 

1. Top down isn't obselete. At all. One advantage for example is a better visibility on the entire field. Not just in the direction you are looking

 

2. Cutscenes are money and timesinks IMO. The handdrawn sequences are way more atmospheric to me than a costy and boring cutscene. And there are many who dislike them especially in hardcore rpg groups. In games about choice they get even more useless and even prevent them. Nobody would invest in a costly cutscene that has only 1-2 changes from the other.

 

I wouldn't mind if it went more rpg though it shouldn't go too far with it. At the moment its a fine mix between elements from different gernes and I like it this way. I'd more appreaciate it if the dialog system/dialogs in general would be improved/expanded. I don't really think adding 10+ more classes is a good idea if they become unbalanced/ individual classes suffer in other aspects. Already the charachters are a bit underdeveloped in terms of story so maybe just 1-2 charachters more or staying with the current base of 4 and making more individual story sequences would interest me more.

 

Obsidian has (for the first time) made a really good combat system (No, I don't consider NVs to be that good. Passable) so I'm a bit wary regarding it.

Edited July 12, 2011 by C2B

[Stepp N Wolf]

Well C2B I guess this is where we will just have to agree to disagree. The last top-down ONLY view game I played was for the PS1. There are people out there who enjoy/value cut-scenes and they are not that time/space/money consuming to produce.

You see the most of us are spoiled gamers now, and we want choices. Why? Because of the hard earned money we are paying for these games. If you like a high wide view during battle you can just zoom back to one. If you want to look foward or up you can just point the camera view that way. If you want to see something up close you can just zoom up to it. If you don't like a cut-scene you can just skip it. It's all about choice in this day and age. And having choice is a gamers best friend

[LadyCrimson]

I have no problem with the idea that not everyone likes top-down only games. No one has to like it. But it's not obsolete at all, for this genre of game in particular, for the advantage C2B already mentioned.

 

Titan Quest (2006)/Immortal Throne (2007)

Torchlight (2009)

Grim Dawn (indie being made by some of those from Titan Quest) (still in production)

 

and of course... Diablo3 (2011/2012?). In fact, from the videos of D3, I'd say it's going to be pretty similar viewpoint as DS3 is...perhaps a little more zoomed out.

And those are only the pc games I've personally played/looking forward to. I'm sure there's others, whether small indies/not well known to medium size to the occasional bigger title.

 

As for:

I never play MP so LC surprised me by saying she would like the view even further out, but I can understand that too.

I don't play MP either. Having the camera a bit more zoomed out would actually allow one to see farther "forward" - a bigger radius field of view - and thus see enemies sooner, if that's one's complaint. You don't have to have an over-the-shoulder 3rd person type of view in order to just see "farther" - zooming out achieves that as well. It doesn't, of course, give you a pretty view of skies or whatever, but that's different than wanting to see enemies sooner.

 

I'd like to mention that the way the game is designed, seeing too much "farther" could actually make the game too easy. If you can see enemies long before they can see you, you're going to approach the situation differently. There's no surprise factor (the 1st time anyway). You'd see enemies milling about unaware of you when you can see them, and that starts to look silly in this type of game, imo. Akin to when Diablo2 gave us 800x600 resolution and suddenly the Fallen were just wandering around aimlessly in the corners of the screen, and you could attack them before they noticed your presence, which made things absurdly easy.

 

But LC if you couldn't pin the camera against a wall and with no zoom, that is really the only way to get a close view of the characters. And I would have never seen the cute freckles on Katarina's nose which I adore! hehehe

That's easily solved by not allowing the weirded out super-close up in the zoomed out option, but allowing it in the closer zoomed in option. My objection to the "wall/zoom" is that when it occurs during combat, which can happen now and then if you're rolling/teleporting madly around in the tight spaces, it can be very annoying.

Edited July 13, 2011 by LadyCrimson

[Assassinka]

That's me again

Just to explain what i was firstly talkin about and also explain my nonsense replys

Firstly i'd like to say BIG THANKS to development team to succesfully implement the key mapping feature, it brings light into game great job here.

 

DS1 was top down/iso. The camera there worked better though as it had better zoom and you could scroll.

Rereading your first post. Am I right thinking that you meant just to zoom the camera out more to see whats ahead? Because my answer was more for the people that wanted Witcher 2 style third person view.

I'm with you if its that though I think it works well enough at the moment.

 

You're right, under term top down view i imagined perpendicular to ground, so i have to agree. I don't need to see sky and nothing like that, i love camera view like used in Diablo and DS predecessors

 

What i meant is that most of these games used more or less free camera, meaning when you scroll mmb you just zoomed in out and holding camera movement button and moving mouse around was used as follows

horizontal movement to rotate and vertical to tilt camera, that's what i miss in DS3

 

firstly not to do 2 things simultaneously (and 2 state only) - when you scroll up zoom in and tilt down and vice versa

if theres essentially an axis on mmb why not to use it fully (here i understand that for console this might be a problem, but not for pc, where it works like that mostly)

 

I'd simply like the scenario mmb scroll simply zoom in zoom out without altering camera tilt and apply a tilt altering onto vertical movement of mouse when holdin camera movement button

Edited July 13, 2011 by Assassinka

[immateriaux]

I've just joined the community here specifically in regard to this issue.

 

I've only played the demo but was completely flummoxed with the design decision to have such an incredibly limited view of the game field. For a start, there are events happening on the edges of the view, e.g. right at the start a wall collapses, which are being animated (you can just about make that out), yet can't actually be seen. Why on earth would Obsidian put in resources that then are impossible to see? That strikes me as either a **** up or a late decision was made to restrict the view further than originally planned, perhaps to standardise performance across the platforms? However, whatever the impetus, the result is very annoying (to me anyhow) and it has stopped me buying the game.

 

In general, playing the demo, I very much liked the style and could see it being a potentially enjoyable game but the limited camera actually makes the whole experience frustrating. Someone also said earlier about top down being good for strategy but it's a minuscule range within that top-down view: the idea of controlling a party who can only see ten yards around them them is not strategic anyway, strategy as a concept implies forward planning and if you can't see "forward" then you can't plan.

 

I hoped there might be a hack, mod or workaround mentioned in here, hence I came looking, but if the game's camera is stuck like it is presently, I definitely will not purchase the game.

[Heather Lehane]

Yeah this was one thing that bugged me about the game was the limited camera movement even on the 360. You had only two modes, the tactical down view and then the angled down tactical down view. Both weren't all that great.

 

Also one thing that bugged me is when there were conversations, you never got to see your main character speak. Always had the camera angled behind their heads and when there was the off chance that the game somehow allowed you to see their face when talking, their lips didn't move at all.

 

Still good game overall I just wish there was more thought put in for the camera angle and seeing your character speak. I think they should take a page from Bioware and their games like Mass Effect and DA2. Allowing you to see your characters face during conversations and seeing them speak if they are going to do a voice over for them.