The Vatican advocates for genetic engineering to feed the world's poor

[Humodour]

I like the Vatican. Having a central authority means they, like any 'government', can do some stupid things at times. But it also means that they can make bold moves to change minds. Compare this to the disparate cells of anti-science evangelical protestant groups often found in America (and elsewhere? don't know how it is in Europe) for example.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1978...ref=environment

 

So the Vatican supports the science behind: evolution, the birth of the universe (and thus heliocentric model), genetic engineering, contraception. Some of these perhaps with varying levels of caveats, but still, it's refreshing to know that the Vatican supports science, even if it tends to be a few decades slow in doing so.

[I want teh kotor 3]

Yup. More hypocrisy.

 

 

Yes, this is a positive change (for once). But given how much they've ****ed the world up for the last 1700 or so years, this is comparatively minor.

[Humodour]

I can't really talk about the Vatican of the past though, only the Vatican which I have observed in my time alive on this Earth.

 

That Vatican is quite progressive. I struggle to find evidence to the contrary.

[I want teh kotor 3]

I can't really talk about the Vatican of the past though, only the Vatican which I have observed in my time alive on this Earth.

 

That Vatican is quite progressive. I struggle to find evidence to the contrary.

 

The past couple decades or so (although indeed characterized by a somewhat less bat**** church than previous eras) by no means erases the past. The sheer amount of crap the roman catholic church has brought upon us cannot be forgotten.

 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I have absolutely nothing against Roman Catholics. I'm just not a big fan of the majority of what the church has done over its long history (Spanish Inquisition, Galileo, etc, banning of contraceptives, etc.), and I don't think that should be deemed irrelevant.

 

EDIT 2: Also, I'm sick today, and feeling particularly misanthropic. This is undoubtedly making me sound exceptionally biased. I apologize. Blame it on the bacteria.

Edited December 2, 2010 by I want teh kotor 3

[Thorton_AP]

I am suffering from the flu too.

 

But I still understand that Christian Scholars did a pretty darn good job of writing stuff down as we plunged into the Dark Ages. Even as an agnostic that doesn't particularly care for organized religion, I think it's still just as bad to equally dismiss the Vatican and other organized religions.

[I want teh kotor 3]

I am suffering from the flu too.

 

But I still understand that Christian Scholars did a pretty darn good job of writing stuff down as we plunged into the Dark Ages. Even as an agnostic that doesn't particularly care for organized religion, I think it's still just as bad to equally dismiss the Vatican and other organized religions.

 

I don't dismiss them. I just find it very hard to praise them for something as minor as this.

[Tale]

The sheer amount of crap the roman catholic church has brought upon us cannot be forgotten.

Yeah, the Roman Catholic oppression of Florida was a dark time in history.

[I want teh kotor 3]

The sheer amount of crap the roman catholic church has brought upon us cannot be forgotten.

Yeah, the Roman Catholic oppression of Florida was a dark time in history.

 

No, but the Catholic shutdown of European science for a couple centuries was. So was the time they starting hunting Jews and witches in Spain. And the (multiple) times they supported wholesale slaughter of anyone and everyone in the Middle East. Need I go on?

[Thorton_AP]

So you're saying the Vatican was basically acting like a country?

[I want teh kotor 3]

So you're saying the Vatican was basically acting like a country?

 

No, I'm saying the Vatican was acting like a bunch of totalitarian dip****s. I criticize them for it the same way I do Stalin or Mao.

 

EDIT: So yeah, basically a country.

Edited December 2, 2010 by I want teh kotor 3

[Tale]

So you're saying the Vatican was basically acting like a country?

 

No, I'm saying the Vatican was acting like a bunch of totalitarian dip****s. I criticize them for it the same way I do Stalin or Mao.

But Stalin and Mao are people.

[I want teh kotor 3]

So you're saying the Vatican was basically acting like a country?

 

No, I'm saying the Vatican was acting like a bunch of totalitarian dip****s. I criticize them for it the same way I do Stalin or Mao.

But Stalin and Mao are people.

 

And the church has had far more popes than I am willing to name. I could have said "the USSR" and "China" but I prefer to criticize the head mother****ers themselves.

[Tale]

So you're saying the Vatican was basically acting like a country?

 

No, I'm saying the Vatican was acting like a bunch of totalitarian dip****s. I criticize them for it the same way I do Stalin or Mao.

But Stalin and Mao are people.

 

And the church has had far more popes than I am willing to name. I could have said "the USSR" and "China" but I prefer to criticize the head mother****ers themselves.

Yes, but not all of the Popes engaged in it. Why not single out the particular head mother*****ers in this case? By name.

 

Or maybe you can blame the Russian Czars and Chinese Emperors.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Tale

[I want teh kotor 3]

So you're saying the Vatican was basically acting like a country?

 

No, I'm saying the Vatican was acting like a bunch of totalitarian dip****s. I criticize them for it the same way I do Stalin or Mao.

But Stalin and Mao are people.

 

And the church has had far more popes than I am willing to name. I could have said "the USSR" and "China" but I prefer to criticize the head mother****ers themselves.

Yes, but not all of the Popes engaged in it. Why not single out the particular head mother*****ers in this case? By name.

 

Again, because the were a crapton of them. But if it really makes you happy, sure:

 

Lucius 3 (inquisitions in general), Gregory 8 (3rd crusade, including the siege and therefore massacre of Acre), Urban 8 (Galileo)- can I stop? Do you get the drift?

[Azure79]

The sheer amount of crap the roman catholic church has brought upon us cannot be forgotten.

Yeah, the Roman Catholic oppression of Florida was a dark time in history.

 

Isn't that Scientology?

[Hurlshort]

While I think it is extremely important to understand the corruption and damage that the Catholic Church caused in the Middle Ages, I think it is also important to remember the Church was tied to nearly everything that was happening in Europe at the time. Copernicus was put through school by his Uncle, who was a bishop, and spent time as a Church canon. Theology was the bread and butter of most Universities at the time. It is really impossible to separate the Church from the Renaissance and the Scientific Revolution, it played a key role, for better or worse.

 

edit: On topic, I do appreciate the Catholic Church's work in the last few decades. They have been somewhat progressive, although I still think they are way too slow to make changes in areas like woman's rights and science. What has really impressed me has been the interfaith dialogue that they have established.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Hurlshot

[Humodour]

So you're saying the Vatican was basically acting like a country?

 

It was and did, yes. That's common knowledge.

[pmp10]

No, but the Catholic shutdown of European science for a couple centuries was.

If anything it saved far more knowledge than it buried in that time.

If it wasn't for monks/priest studding/coping ancient texts literacy could well have been lost completely in Europe.

So was the time they starting hunting Jews and witches in Spain.

No witch-hunts took place at the same time that Jews were expelled. That begun as part of enlightenment movement brought on with renaissance, they were also not directed by church and happened rarely in Spain.

That

[Thorton_AP]

So you're saying the Vatican was basically acting like a country?

 

It was and did, yes. That's common knowledge.

 

Yes I know

 

 

If anything it saved far more knowledge than it buried in that time.

If it wasn't for monks/priest studding/coping ancient texts literacy could well have been lost completely in Europe.

 

This is what I was making a reference to earlier. The "church" still did plenty of good, despite much of the bad that was going on at the same time.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Thorton_AP

[Walsingham]

While I think it is extremely important to understand the corruption and damage that the Catholic Church caused in the Middle Ages, I think it is also important to remember the Church was tied to nearly everything that was happening in Europe at the time. Copernicus was put through school by his Uncle, who was a bishop, and spent time as a Church canon. Theology was the bread and butter of most Universities at the time. It is really impossible to separate the Church from the Renaissance and the Scientific Revolution, it played a key role, for better or worse.

 

Interesting point. Wasn't Mendel a monk?

[Humodour]

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=14171

[Orogun01]

So was the time they starting hunting Jews and witches in Spain.

No witch-hunts took place at the same time that Jews were expelled. That begun as part of enlightenment movement brought on with renaissance, they were also not directed by church and happened rarely in Spain.

That

[pmp10]

So was the time they starting hunting Jews and witches in Spain.

No witch-hunts took place at the same time that Jews were expelled. That begun as part of enlightenment movement brought on with renaissance, they were also not directed by church and happened rarely in Spain.

That

[Hurlshort]

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=14171

 

Fantastic find

[Orogun01]

So was the time they starting hunting Jews and witches in Spain.

No witch-hunts took place at the same time that Jews were expelled. That begun as part of enlightenment movement brought on with renaissance, they were also not directed by church and happened rarely in Spain.

That