Requesting opinions and suggestions

[cronicler]

This is a collection of rip-offs from a couple of games and discussions that I'm hoping to package into a little mod of my own. I guess a concept document of some sorts.

This concept is more or less designed to suit my tastes so I would really like to see your suggestions and criticisms about it as second and third opinions.

 

 

Story so far:

The "Den" (As in "bear's den" as their faithful wives call it to poke fun at them) is the result of *David (Dave) Dvorak and *Robert (Rob) Wilson's little project that got a bit out of hand. It is a (not so little) bolthole in the mountain region, nested next to a national park, with it's fortified cave system, civilian built hydrophonics, stocks of supplies, the Den is almost completely self sufficent. Almost.

But, at the end of the day, it is just a Civilian shelter with limited sustainability. And unforseen events can make it cause some need for scavenging and foraging.

(Yes, the concept is direcly ripped from the start of David Weber's "Out of the Dark" standalone novel. Might change the names thou )

 

The player is a relative of one of the "Adults" of the shelter. S/He was a soldier who had stopped to visit them while on his/her way to a new posting when the things hit the fan. This was roughly about 2 years before the game's start. The game will start with a scavenger hunt quest for improving the "Den" (New seeds, rolls of cable, intact or repairable pre-war tech like foor purifiers, water pumps, mobile generators, weapon caches and such), a quest to recon the immidiate area and a quest about certain briefcase the Soldier was carrying to his/her bosses at new posting.

 

 

 

 

The Mechanics:

The first thing, I want to do is to seperate Stats from Skills. The stats will provide static bonuses or penalties to check tresholds but they won't be effecting your skill level in any way. The skill levels (0 to 100) will (still) be the main factor in determining success.

*All stats will have a couple of speech options based on high stat

 

Str:

-Carry Weight

-Base melee and unarmed damage

-Steady effect per each point of str above reqirements

 

Per:

-Provides DT reduction for each attack

-VATS range

-Disarm checks' treshold

-Cash, bullets and junk from certain containers

 

End:

-Resistances (Rad, Poison)

-DT against certain damage types (fatigue, stun)

-Base HP

-HP gain per lvl

-Increases effectiveness of chems and lessens their side effects

 

Cha:

-Social Interactions

-Nerve

-Increases rep gain and decreases infamy gain

 

Int:

-Skill Points

 

Ag:

-Movement Speed

-Attack Speed

-Reload speed

-Bonus DT from light armors

 

Lck:

-Bonus to Base Skill lvl

-Crit Chance

-Adjust resources found

 

 

 

The Skills:

As I mentioned above, the stats themselves will not be determining the base skill levels. Instead I'm planning to use a JA2 like form to determine the characters history. This form will determine your history, your basic Skill set (roughly ranging from %10 to %30), your starting specilisations, your starting gear and your unique piece of equipment. I might give 1 lvl worth of free skill points for further personal choices but that's a grey area for now.

 

 

-Name:

-Surname:

-Callsign:

-Childhood?: City Slicker / Farm Kid / Mining Townie / Coast Comber / Military Brat

-Basic Education?: Homeschooled / Nerd / Jock / Greaser / Rich Kid / Odd one Out

-Kid Stuff?: Boy Scout / Little Leauger / Amateur Radioman / Bookworm / *special

-Achievement?: Won spelling bee / Killed me a Boar / Was a motorcycle racer / ...

-How did you become a soldier?: The Judge said / Drafted / Volunteer / College Tutiution / There was this girl and then there was her dad and a 12 gauge...

-Which branch?: NG / Army / Airforce / Navy / Coast Guard

-What role?: (Army) Trooper / Ranger / Radio Operator / Support Gunner / Mechanic/ Quartermaster / Medic

-How did you get in trouble with MPs?

-Where were you stationed

-Did you see any action

-How are you related to Veronica or Sharon?

-How come you were at the "Den" when the end came?

-What were you carrying?

 

 

Based on my personal preferences and the general tidiying / expanding the survival/scavenger aspects, The skillset will also change a bit.

 

 

-Barter: Barter rates

-Pistols: One handed weapon accuracy, additional damage for convenional pistols

-Rifles: Two Handed weapons, additional damage for convenional rifles

-Support Weapons: Heavy Weapons, Grenade Launchers, Grenades

-Close Combat: Melee and Unarmed rolled into one skill

-Explosives: Mines, Explosives, Explosive Traps

-Lockpick:

-Medicine: F/A only without certain perks

-Repair: Crafting and Maintenance (slower item decay)

-Science: Deciphering Blueprints, Computers, Bonus to Energy Weapon Damage

-Sneak:

-Speech:

-Survival: Effectiveness of food and water, crafting, mechanichal trap damage

 

Weapon skills will work roughly in this formula:

-If your skill < required weapon skill, you will have less accuracy and penetration.

-If your skill = required weapons skill, you will have %100 efficiency with "base weapon" properties.

-If weapon skill = 2x required weapon skill, you will have %100 efficiency and have all the weapon bonuses associated with the weapon. (some weapons will have a very long vats range, others increased crit chance and so on)

Weapons will also have repair and science (if it is an energy weapon) requirements, which will determine how effective the weapon is (science) and how fast it wears out (repair)

Repair, Explosives and Science will also determine the effects of homemade ammunition.

At the beginning of the game, you will not have access to every function you can have from a skill. For example, if you didn't take Medic background (Perk: Field Medic Training), you will be limited to basic first aid actions with

your Medicine skill. To access additional functions, you will need to find training, (army manual (requires relatively high skill level) or a real doctor (requires lower skill level))

 

 

 

 

Gear:

The "magical" clothing aspect will also be handled differently than NV. Instead of switching into a lab coat here and utility jumpsuit there, to get bonuses, You will start with your "basic kit" consisting of odds and ends that allow you to access to basic actions (pick mechanical locks, make basic maintenance on weapons, decipher printed schematics). As you travel, you will come across stuff that you can add to your kit (an illegal electronic lockpick, hacking tools, a Personal Information Processor), which allow you to attempt more complex actions and lower the reqs. for more simple ones.

 

Similarly there won't be skill books (temp. or perm.) in the game. Instead there will be schematics that you can decipher with science. These schematics will lower difficulty tresholds for their related items, allowing you to hack or repair with less skill. (when you find a basic schematic for a RoboCo terminal and decipher it, you will discover a neat little trick of flashing the bios manually to open basic interface, which is much more easier to hack then

the additional 3rd party security programs the last users installed. -%10 to RoboCo Terminal hacking tresholds)

 

As a replacement to perm. skill books, there will also be certain "experienced" npc's in the game that you can recieve training from.

 

 

 

Crafting and Recycling:

Similar to breaking down ammo, I'm intending to add a system to break down armors and weapons. This will yield spare weapon parts (normal, energy), spare armor parts (leather, metal, composite) and certain unique parts.

Similar to jurry rigging perk, the generic parts will be used to repair and maintain player's weapons and armor.

Unique parts like lightweight body, scope, lasersight will be usable to mod other weapons.

 

 

 

The MAP:

This story will a world map for travel and seperate local maps where the action will take place. By using seperate (relatively) small maps, I hope to give the illusion of size and have the ability to allow multiple people to create content without (too much) conflicts .

 

 

 

The Pip-boy

It needs to will have to be changed. This project needs an interface that uses keyboard shortcuts and doesn't require hours of scrolling.

[mkreku]

One thing I would consider changing is the reliance on Int to determine the amount of skill points you get per level. It makes it so you HAVE to have intelligence to not gimp yourself out of the game. The difference between 10 and 17 skillpoints per level for 30 levels is too huge.

 

Also, it somewhat annoys me that it implies intelligence equals having skills. You can be a great boxer, sharpshooter, martial artist, hockey player, ballerina, carpenter, deep sea diver, whatever, without being able to tie your own shoe laces. The only thing intelligence gives you is an advantage in the purely academic skills.

 

I'm on my third (or fourth? I forget) replay of Fallout: New Vegas, and that game is made so I always end up creating the same character no matter what I do. The only thing I've been able to change is my main weapon choice, and even then it's pretty pointless (guns work regardless). I've tried going with a strong but dumb character, only to end up having to use perks to increase Int so I could get more skill points (which are vital for EVERY character build). I've tried going for smart and weak, high agility, low agility, etc. I always end up with basically the same build anyway. Always science, speech, repair and picklock. I don't even remember the other skills since they are basically worthless.

 

My latest build was supposed to be an unarmed dumb, strong fighter who was a master of survival. I pumped up my unarmed to 90 and my survival skill to 70 before I gave up and spent the rest on speech, science and repair (I only have 12 lockpick and have missed 50% of the game because of it). Without repair your items last one battle. Without speech, science and lockpick you miss out on 95% of the game. Without Int, you will have no skills at all.

 

I do like the idea of combining unarmed and melee. I've played both builds and they're so incredibly similar to each other, I have no clue why Obsidian decided to split them.

[cronicler]

Int vs Skill Point per Level:

The current formula is 10+(int/2) per level. (I think) Any less than that would make int a dump stat, especially since I'm planning to axe the abundance of terminals... Then again I was planning to have it effect the field manual and training requirements...

 

 

One major thing you should keep in mind is the fact that the hardest to use equipment in the game (energy support weapon this or that) will require 50 weapon skill (and probably 50 repair) to use 100%. [You will need 100 weapon skill to use all of its nifty little perks. However, if you manage to obtain it's manuals, you will only need 40 repair to use it with maximum operational life.

*Repair numbers are wag atm.

 

My aim is to enable player do stuff with 40 or 50 skill. 100 should mean something instead of the skill to access base level damage...

 

 

*A starting character will be able to start with 30 or 35 skill points in his chosen category if he choses to spend his history on it (Farm Kid -> ? -> Boy Scout -> Killed me a Boar -> ? -> Army -> Trooper (or SG or Ranger) -> etc). A standard military service rifle will probably need 25 or 30 rifles to use %100. Stuff like Army Training perk and others will allow your starting character to access a few military weapons and use them effectively. Later, when your stocks empty and you start to use non-familiar stuff, the skill requirements will increase but by this time your skills will have increased too.

 

 

Edit: Unarmed and Melee: RL vs Game I guess. They are actually very different paths. However in the game, they do play exactly the same due to limitations. Left over legacy from PnP I guess.

 

 

 

Edit 2: I wonder if putting some "ranged" weapons under survival would be logical... Bow and Arrows, maybe throwing knifes and tomahawks and stuff...

Edited November 26, 2010 by cronicler

[Humanoid]

The player is a relative of one of the "Adults" of the shelter. S/He was a soldier who had stopped to visit them while on his/her way to a new posting when the things hit the fan. This was roughly about 2 years before the game's start. The game will start with a scavenger hunt quest for improving the "Den" (New seeds, rolls of cable, intact or repairable pre-war tech like foor purifiers, water pumps, mobile generators, weapon caches and such), a quest to recon the immidiate area and a quest about certain briefcase the Soldier was carrying to his/her bosses at new posting.

 

I'm afraid I don't quite follow - rereading the paragraph a couple of times gives very different interpretations (in the order I pictured them):

 

1) Localised incident serious enough to cause soldier to desert. Hiding as an outlaw with family doesn't seem particularly clever on the PC's part.

 

2) Total annihilation Fallout-style. This would be read as a civilian vault-dweller story. Is emerging from caves after two years plausible? Isolation of a cave system would be nowhere near a "real" vault so nature of outside civilisation would be a pretty big factor.

 

Assuming option two is the more likely.

 

Anyhow, personally not a fan of the one-person-to-do-everything style in terms of the mundane work described - I mean a self-sufficient society presumably has more than one able body. Maybe the PC could pick one or two to do as a sort of character creation/tutorial? (i.e. glorified GOAT/Doc Mitchell test) Bit of a nit-pick - but tech from two years prior would probably be viewed by the society as current tech instead of Fallout-esque "pre-war" tech. I mean a person wouldn't forget how a car works after two years of not seeing one.

 

As for the main plot - I guess the question is how to explain the impetus of finally looking into the briefcase affair. It needs to be important enough to chase up instead of focusing on rebuilding the community, but not so earth-shatteringly obvious in importance as to make one question why it was left alone for two years. I assume it'd have to be something outwardly ordinary but which is only explained by some sort of discovery or incident during the recon quest.

 

 

Won't comment on the mechanics for now, not really something I look at.

 

 

EDIT: Wait, is this even in the Fallout universe? The above might seem kind of silly if it is.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Humanoid

[cronicler]

I am planning to have this story take place in 2079 or 2080 (2 or 3 years after the great war, the one that turned everything into rubble.)

 

The Den is the self constructed hidey-hole of 2 guys for themselves and their families. There are 6 adults (3 families), 1 teenager, 4 or 5 kids and 2 dogs in this personal shelter (not a totally enclosed bunker). The place is "technichally" designed to survive for 5 years without needing outside supplies on it's own gardens and recycling.

 

The soldier is a relative of one of the Adults (4 different families altogether.). Depending on your answer to the form, you were on your way from one posting to the other (on the other side of the country). On top of the travel time, you manage to "acquire" a couple of free days, which you decide to spend with your relative (and raid her/his kitchen and beer) . It is blind dumb luck that you were all at the "Den" (actually they were showing off their man toys to you but nevermind ) when the WAR took place.

 

Edit: there isn't any real urgency to your departure. The Den was designed (not that it was calculated in detail or anything) to house 10 people for 5 years "if the sky fell down". Instead it housed 12+1 people, 2 dogs and I have no idea how many puppies. (You weren't even supposed to be in the country, let alone at the Den)

The rad counters were nearly 0 and they didn't want to eat em-rats, mres or their seed seed, so the Den opened up, started replenishing it's stores. Everyone except you (fathers, mothers, kids) had stuff to do. Besides you were bored I think..

 

 

The starting scavenger quests are just there to get the ball rolling (and get you into the wasteland). The briefcase and it's content (changes based on your branch and answer to q13) is actually completely irrelevant to your romp. You can "solve" it by some detailed prospecting trips but it's sole reason is to stand in your quest log and drive you nuts (and keep you moving )

Edited November 26, 2010 by cronicler

[mkreku]

Edit 2: I wonder if putting some "ranged" weapons under survival would be logical... Bow and Arrows, maybe throwing knifes and tomahawks and stuff...

I've always pictured the survival skill as something like, 0 = you need a GPS and a life vest to survive in your own backyard and 100 = you're McGyver and can make an A-bomb out of a paper clip, a rubber band and a dead poodle. Surviving, to me, is making the best of the situation, using whatever is at hand.

 

The perk Jury Rigged (that lets you repair your stuff from similar stuff) should have been survival based. Instead, I've picked that perk for all my builds so far. It would make sense to have it be survival based though since it basically makes you into McGyver.

 

Survival could also affect your ability to spot enemies, instead of using perception for that. Perhaps a skill for assessing situations in dialogue? I must say I didn't like Obsidian's interpretation of it: they turned it into a chef skill. I mean, with high survival skill I am able to cook up these weird recipes needing ten different ingredients?! WTF? Is that needed to survive? NO! High survival skill should mean the opposite! That I can survive a week from one dead poodle!

[Cantousent]

What's up with you and the dead poodles. On second thought, I don't want to know.

 

Okay, I think survival should get a major overhaul also.

 

In terms of your changes, Cronicler, they sound intriguing and some seem to be reasonable or even good, but the proof of the pudding is in the tasting. I think that's how it goes. Anyhow, I also have some thoughts about what I'd like to see changed. They keep bouncing around in my bone box and I'm trying to sort them out. So far, no luck.

[Orogun01]

FOOK, just FOOK and fast.

[Tigranes]

Generally, story concept seems nicely Fallout enough without looking at something more new or unexplored. If that's not your aim it should serve fine.

 

Certain aspects of the mechanic changes, like schematics, sound interesting - I think the key thing is to have your world design complement your mechanic changes, to make your newly jigged skill uses/etc interesting. One thing I'd say is that there should be no reason to have Pistols, Rifles, Support Weapons AND explosives - even if Guns are currently OP that is too many, unless you're going to be even more liberal with skill points? I'd say either reduce to 3 (perhaps merge Support and Explo, though that's iffy) or ensure that people are thus torn between 2+ combat skills & 2+ non-combat.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Have you at least looked at the GECK before starting designing? I'm pretty sure you can't change the base skills.

[cronicler]

WUE: You can however change the displayed name and the weapon associations.

 

Tig: I know this will sound the usual pr. bs. but I want to make the skills be important and agonize you when you points to spend. I am hoping to achieve this by tweaking the weapons themselves instead of adding flat bonuses to skills.

 

(Supposing you chose Army as your branch) You will start the game with "BCT" and "AIT" perks which will allow you to operate basic army and NG gear %100 with really low skills, something like 25 or 30 for weapons and 15 to 20 for support skills. The downside is the lack of bonus abilities. Basic gear is "basic", it is easy to operate, durable, mass produced and compared to civilian or specialist gear, offers little to nothing in terms of variety. No mods, no critical bonuses, no special abilities.

 

In gameplay terms, civ-gear will require 5 points more for operation (weapon, explosive, medicine) and much higher secondary skills (repair, science) to use effectively but their bonuses for 2x primary skill will be much, much higher. (a service rifle will require 25 rifles and 15 repair to operate fully but if you have 50 rifles, you will have just a few minor benefits (and it can take a reflex sight at most). Compared to that, a hunting rifle will require 30 rifles and 30 repair to use fully but 60 rifles will give you extended range, additional -dt and can accept different scopes.

 

*I know it sounds counter intuitive at first but as they don't have to be as durable and as cheap as the mil-gear, civilian gear (police, sport, hunting) usually outperforms the same class mil gear. (heavier or outright wildcat calibers, expensive specialist attachments, rarity.)

 

 

Pistols, Rifles and Close Combat vs Guns, EW, CC is frankly a "6 of one, half a dozen of other" choice. Either energy weapons will get shafted or pistols will.

I don't want to give energy weapons early / make them abundant and low powered but if I use the energy weapons skill, that will just lead to the FO 1/2 problem of penalizing the starting player / getting used to conventional guns and never switching to EWs.

With this setup, I'm hoping to put EWs as the end game / ultimate weapons for their respective skills and mitigate the rifles owning pistols problem by boosting the pistols efficiency to cinematic level.

 

Support weapons are going to be "the" secondary skill. I don't see a realistic way to base gameplay on this skill all the way. Instead, I hope to make this skill more of an emergency button: swarms of African bees coming!, pull out a HE grenade or Flamer. Oh my god, what the hell is that deathclaw doing here? I guess it's time to use this LAW.

 

Explosives is going to step back (again) and sit next to science, repair, *lockpick and medicine; useful and potentially needed (quests, checks) but can be sidestepped.

*I have some doubts about lockpick. I am debating scrapping it and rolling it's functions under sneak or repair as it doesn't really add much to the gameplay besides locked doors/containers. No way to add it into speech parts of the game or the combat, it just stands by itself as an extra loot generator... Edit: I know putting it under "sneak" is not that logical but rolling it under repair might bloat repair too much again. Edit 2: Maybe I can call it spying or 007 or something heh.

Edited November 28, 2010 by cronicler