Israel butchers civilians in international waters

[Humodour]

**** you Israel, you used to be cool. I'm certainly through with defending their practices, and I'm glad their top spy was expelled from Australia recently.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...killing-16.html

 

I'd copy-pasta here but the formatting goes nuts.

 

Turkey and Greece are extremely pissed off, and I don't blame them - it was their citizens who Israel slaughtered. Irsael has grown this attitude of "we're above reproach, we can **** anybody over and the West will support us". We only support you as long as you espouse Western ideals. Oppression (especially based along ethnic and religious lines) and indiscriminate murder are things we're strongly opposed to.

 

Found one that I can paste here:

 

ANKARA — Shock and outrage swept the globe Monday after Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla of aid ships bound for Gaza, as the Jewish state's foes and allies closed ranks in condemning the deadly raid.

Police struggled to hold back an angry crowd of hundreds outside the Israeli consulate in Turkey's biggest city Istanbul, while furious protesters shouted "Damn Israel" outside the residence of the Israeli ambassador in Ankara.

Israel's army said more than 10 people died when its forces stormed the flotilla of aid-carrying ships, while a Turkish charity involved with the fleet put the death toll at at least 15 dead, many of them Turks.

The Islamist Hamas which runs the Gaza Strip urged fellow Muslims to "rise up" in protest in front of Israeli embassies the world over, as Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas declared three days of mourning over the "massacre."

Kuwait's parliament speaker condemned the raid on the flotilla, which was carrying 16 Kuwaitis including an MP, as a "heinous Israeli crime," as the cabinet prepared for an emergency meeting.

Arab League chief Amr Mussa slammed the raid as a "crime" against a humanitarian mission, saying the 22-country body was consulting to decide on its next step.

In Europe, condemnation was equally swift.

France said that "nothing can justify" the violence of Israel's Gaza ship raid, while German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said he was "deeply concerned" about the deaths.

The European Union demanded Israel mount a "full inquiry" into the killing of at least 10 people in a raid on a flotilla of aid ships bound for Gaza.

EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton warned that Israel's "continued policy of closure is unacceptable and politically counterproductive," demanding "an immediate, sustained and unconditional opening" of crossings to Gaza.

Greece withdrew from joint military exercises with Israel in protest at the raid, as it summoned Israel's ambassador to demand an "immediate" report on the safety of about 30 Greeks on board the flotilla.

The bloody ending to the high-profile mission to deliver supplies to Gaza came on the eve of a meeting in Washington between President Barack Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

According to Israel's private channel 10 television, Israeli marine commandos opened fire after being attacked with axes and knives by a number of the passengers on board the aid ships, the television said, without giving the source of its information.

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/artic...bCk3hQFR6qZcFGw

 

Apparently Israeli commanders have never heard of tasers, tear gas, or pepper spray. Murderers.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Krezack

[HoonDing]

Why would 'civilians' attack Israeli commandos with axes & knives?

[Orogun01]

Social Darwinism?

[Gorgon]

You could likely get away with activism like this in most civilised countries. You know make a show of trying to unload the cargo, get arrested in front of the cameras, etc. In Israel they shoot you full of holes.

[ramza]

Death to the infidels! lol

[Meshugger]

A couple of questions:

 

1) How do we know that it was in international waters?

2) Why would a group of highly trained marines open fire on one ship and start killing in cold blood? If i read this correctly, no one was hurt on the other ships.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Meshugger

[HoonDing]

You could likely get away with activism like this in most civilised countries. You know make a show of trying to unload the cargo, get arrested in front of the cameras, etc. In Israel they shoot you full of holes.

Considering the nature of 'activism' in Israel is quite different from other civilised countries, and that as a consequence Israeli security forces don't fool around, I find the behaviour of those 'civilians' very suspicious.

Edited May 31, 2010 by virumor

[Morgoth]

**** you Israel, you used to be cool. I'm certainly through with defending their practices,

Flip Flop.

[Volourn]

Why dkid the Isreal soliders board the aid ship in the first place? Why did the civilians try to murder them? Why did they go to live ammunition instead of less lethal means? Why didn't the soliders just leave before it went haywire?

 

This entire scenario seems to have been hanlded wrong. If the story is true, and as simple as t is told in the artcile, Isreal deserves to face punishment.

[Monte Carlo]

Before some of you feint in an orgasmic frenzy of righteous indignation, ask why the flotilla refused the offer of unloading at Ashdod?

 

Don't get me wrong, Israel seldom does itself any favours nowadays, even with those who would prefer to support her. But this flotilla was a carefully manufactured piece of Israel-baiting by Hamas, which the IDF fell for hook, line and sinker.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Monte Carlo

[GreasyDogMeat]

Before some of you feint in an orgasmic frenzy of righteous indignation, ask why the flotilla refused the offer of unloading at Ashdod?

 

Don't get me wrong, Israel seldom does itself any favours nowadays, even with those who would prefer to support her. But this flotilla was a carefully manufactured piece of Israel-baiting by Hamas, which the IDF fell for hook, line and sinker.

I wouldn't be surprised. Hamas has been using civilians they put in harms way so they can then cry to the rest of the world when Israel strikes back.

[heathen]

Before some of you feint in an orgasmic frenzy of righteous indignation, ask why the flotilla refused the offer of unloading at Ashdod?

 

I could come up with a number of reasons, mainly not wanting to give up their (stated) mission of humanitarian aid. I'm sure reasons you could come with would be much more sinister.

 

Don't get me wrong, Israel seldom does itself any favours nowadays, even with those who would prefer to support her. But this flotilla was a carefully manufactured piece of Israel-baiting by Hamas, which the IDF fell for hook, line and sinker.

 

There's no evidence to support that Hamas organized this or that their intention was to bait Israel into action. After all, the victims were mainly foreign citizens, and on board were multiple relatively famous political activists including the swedish writer Henning Mankell.

 

I wouldn't be surprised. Hamas has been using civilians they put in harms way so they can then cry to the rest of the world when Israel strikes back.

 

Ah yes, the age old "bitch made me do it!" excuse. Sorry, won't hold up in court.

Edited May 31, 2010 by heathen

[Volourn]

Isreal; doinjg a scummy thing like this in no way hanges Hamas being a scummy organization nor does Hamas beings cummy make Isreal in the right here.

[Meshugger]

[Monte Carlo]

^ You talk of evidence and courts in your first post on this forum (.alt ahoy!).

 

Terrorists adore people like you, calculating the precise number of angels dancing on the heads of pins. Meanwhile they do what they do and laugh at you. If it were 1955 you'd be in love with Uncle Joe and decrying all those tales of camps and murders as propoganda --- where's the evidence?

 

The 'charity' behind this is suspect. Israel made a compromise offer to land supplies at one of their ports. The markets in Gaza are functional and there is no famine. There is evidence, should you choose to see it, for all of these things.

 

 

Enough, though, let us agree that the IDF behaved in a way that was at best ham-fisted. But do you really, honestly believe that this wasn't the intention of those behind this affair, if not the naifs onboard?

[heathen]

Isreal; doinjg a scummy thing like this in no way hanges Hamas being a scummy organization nor does Hamas beings cummy make Isreal in the right here.

 

Hamas has done their fair share of ****ty things in the past. However this was an attack against foreign humanitarian aid workers and political activists on international waters. Israel will have a hard time justifying it unless there's a nuke on board.

[Monte Carlo]

Hamas has done their fair share of ****ty things in the past. However this was an attack against foreign humanitarian aid workers and political activists on international waters. Israel will have a hard time justifying it unless there's a nuke on board.

 

Israel recently assassinated a target using forged passports of allied countries. It is one of the most shameless and robust countries in the world when it comes to executive action --- it will tough this one out because it knows it is the last beacon of anything remotely resembling democracy in the region. It's fall would herald an era of political and military instability in the near and middle east that the likes of Obama cannot even dare to imagine. It is also nuclear armed and does anybody doubt, for a second, that they wouldn't deploy them?

 

Tough one, eh?

 

I remember the Rainbow Warrior. Similar gig, selfish French realpolitik meets fluffy Western idealism. Very, very wrong. The agents got medals and a protracted 'hoilday' on a tropical island then everybody got back to what they were doing before.

 

The world isn't black and white, that's the only thing that grips me about the tone of some of the posts here. My totem is crueller than your totem. Meh. Does anybody seriously imagine that, say, Syria or Iran wouldn't behave a hundred times worse than Israel if they could get away with it?

 

This is how I view the world. I don't have to like it.

[Humodour]

I remember the Rainbow Warrior. Similar gig, selfish French realpolitik meets fluffy Western idealism. Very, very wrong. The agents got medals and a protracted 'hoilday' on a tropical island then everybody got back to what they were doing before.

 

The Rainbow Warrior changed the political landscape in New Zealand and Australia permanently. The agents might have got away with just a few years in gaol, but it was not without political repercussions. Will we see the same thing happen here?

[heathen]

Henning Mankell was apparently wounded in the attack.

[Monte Carlo]

I remember the Rainbow Warrior. Similar gig, selfish French realpolitik meets fluffy Western idealism. Very, very wrong. The agents got medals and a protracted 'hoilday' on a tropical island then everybody got back to what they were doing before.

 

The Rainbow Warrior changed the political landscape in New Zealand and Australia permanently. The agents might have got away with just a few years in gaol, but it was not without political repercussions. Will we see the same thing happen here?

 

No. I don't want to sound rude, but in Europe the global impact of the political landscape in the Antipodes is near.... zero. France got away with it. France probably became more cunning.

 

This isn't a sum zero game. Israel is important because it's Israel, as I described. Cleverly, the opposition (an alliance of Jihadists, cynical Middle Eastern tyrants and genuine if not misguided liberal leftists) are trying to goad Israel into pariah status. This worked brilliantly against South Africa, I suggest the anti-apartheid campaign rulebook is being carefully thumbed through in Damascus and Tehran.

 

EDIT: My generation, i.e. pre-Gen X now in their forties, held the Holocaust dear, it has religious status as an act of unique barbarism. I personally cannot imagine anything as awful or as evil. This is, with the passing of years, becoming less potent in my opinion, and the middle east has always held a warm welcome for deniers. This is significant.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Monte Carlo

[Gorgon]

Hamas are probably ecstatic about this whole debacle, however this is about Israel handling a stand off with activists the worst way they possibly could have. It's got nothing to do with terrorism. It's really important that people understand that.

[Monte Carlo]

^ Which is like saying the Rainbow Warrior had nothing to do with nuclear energy.

 

This has everything to do with terrorism. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Terrorists want Israel to fail so they can set up camp along the Med with impunity. The fellow travellers in the European liberal left are part of a 'soft power' tactical toolkit.

[Gorgon]

The activists weren't working for Hamas.

[heathen]

^ Hamas is not "just" a terrorist organization. That's like saying Israel is a terrorist organization due to their use of terror tactics. You're the one who's blinded by his own bias here, Monte.

 

Or maybe there's a sinister plot here, Henning Mankell is in fact a Hamas leader, sent to infiltrate the swedish literary elite in the 70s. Now he's stolen a nuke and is trying to return to Gaza and set it off, destroying all of Israel and making every palestinian a suicide bomber, thus opening the gates to heaven for them.

Edited May 31, 2010 by heathen

[Meshugger]

Henning Mankell was apparently wounded in the attack.

 

He will just get more fuel to the fire then. The guy is kinda weird though, some sort of maoist that has become rich from his novels, and married to Bergman's daughter to boot. I call him and his ilk softcore-communists, all complaining about capitalism while sitting in a fancy cafeteria with their fat wallets.

 

Of course that's no excuse for him getting shot. It wouldn't call it ironic, but at least a weird stroke of fate.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Meshugger