Possibly a dumb question

[Walsingham]

I forgot to mention why I ask. The basic question comes back to the simple truth which is...

 

What would happen if we simply refused to pay?

 

I mean this seriously. Because right now it sounds as if the whole thing is a weird muddle of debt which does little besides lead to things shutting down and which cannot possibly help anybody worth helping.

[Enoch]

I forgot to mention why I ask. The basic question comes back to the simple truth which is...

 

What would happen if we simply refused to pay?

 

I mean this seriously. Because right now it sounds as if the whole thing is a weird muddle of debt which does little besides lead to things shutting down and which cannot possibly help anybody worth helping.

Countries have defaulted on debts in the past. It has the effects you might imagine: making it very difficult/expensive to borrow in the future, and making the value of the currency take a nosedive. (This latter bit hasn't been tested in a common currency like the Euro, but the weakness that it has been showing lately is largely because of the perceived weakness of the PIIG countries, so some negative effect from a default would seem likely.)

[Walsingham]

That's what I figured you'd say. But if we declared a code Red and just hit restart wouldn't that be better than slaving like dogs for the next forty years? I'm sure the impact of the reset would be only two generations of skepticism. I mean the danger alone fuels higher borrowing rates as it is. Just take the plunge, man. Go through the Looking Glass! I'll buy some bourbon. It'll be a wild ride!

[Wrath of Dagon]

If you can default and quit borrowing, why not just quit borrowing right now? Besides, if everyone (or even one large country) defaulted, the world economy would collapse.

[Rosbjerg]

and want to go to the Roskilde festival!

 

Trust me, that'll be the best investment you'll make in 2011!

[Walsingham]

If you can default and quit borrowing, why not just quit borrowing right now? Besides, if everyone (or even one large country) defaulted, the world economy would collapse.

 

But would it? Would it really? Or to look at it slightly differently would it collapse worse than what is going on now in slow motion?

[Pidesco]

and want to go to the Roskilde festival!

 

Trust me, that'll be the best investment you'll make in 2011!

 

 

Oh, yes!

[Humodour]

and want to go to the Roskilde festival!

 

Trust me, that'll be the best investment you'll make in 2011!

 

Not 2010?

[Wrath of Dagon]

If you can default and quit borrowing, why not just quit borrowing right now? Besides, if everyone (or even one large country) defaulted, the world economy would collapse.

 

But would it? Would it really? Or to look at it slightly differently would it collapse worse than what is going on now in slow motion?

Yes it would. And yes, it'll collapse anyway unless everyone stops acting like total jackasses. What's it going to take? Another 40 million dead? Of course now it would be 10 times that.

[Humodour]

If you can default and quit borrowing, why not just quit borrowing right now? Besides, if everyone (or even one large country) defaulted, the world economy would collapse.

 

But would it? Would it really? Or to look at it slightly differently would it collapse worse than what is going on now in slow motion?

Yes it would. And yes, it'll collapse anyway unless everyone stops acting like total jackasses. What's it going to take? Another 40 million dead? Of course now it would be 10 times that.

 

Um, what the feck are you talking about?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Last time the global economy collapsed it led to WW2.

[Trenitay]

I think that was just Germany and their economy was terrible beforehand.

[Humodour]

Last time the global economy collapsed it led to WW2.

 

lol. Oh wow you need a few history lessons.

[Walsingham]

Last time the global economy collapsed it led to WW2.

 

lol. Oh wow you need a few history lessons.

 

Hang on. Are you saying that economic trouble wasn't the main reason why fascism went from being a joke to being a shatterer of peace?

[Mamoulian War]

I am not sure, if it was the main reason, but it indeed fueled the decay of human behaviour and thinking...

[Guard Dog]

Ummm, thats not really correct. It would at least be fair to say that the collapse of the Wiemar economy led to the election of Hitler and everything that followed, but no economics were not really the cause of WW2.

[Enoch]

Necessary, but not sufficient.

 

Economic factors were a necessary element in the rise of Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini, but they weren't sufficient in themselves to bring about their alliance and war of aggression on the rest of the world.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I don't understand that logic. Weimar Republic collapse led to hitler, hitler inevitably leads to WW2.

[Rosbjerg]

Gotta agree with both Enoch and GD. Nationalism was on the rise all over Europe from the middle of the 19th century and culminating during the 1930's and the financial crisis, surely it had an effect, but mostly the German people were frustrated with the completely devastating Versailles treaty. The crisis was the final straw that broke the peoples confidence in the Weimar republic. Which would've happened eventually as Germany couldn't pay the war reparations anyway.

 

But it's true that financial troubles usually bring about some new social order, even if its something as simple as Democrats versus Republicans..

[Enoch]

I don't understand that logic. Weimar Republic collapse led to hitler, hitler inevitably leads to WW2.

Collapse of the Weimar led to the rise of a charismatic strongman, but it did not necessarily dictate that said strongman would try to conquer all of Europe. It's what ended up happening, but the aggressive militarism that came with Nazi rule had sources other than simply economic collapse.

[213374U]

Necessary, but not sufficient.

I think this statement can be extended to a vast majority of revolutions worldwide -- or at least those in which the public plays a role.

 

Nothing quite so dangerous for the state as a hungry crowd.

 

But blaming the economic crisis of the 30's alone for the rise of Hitler is simplifying a tad too much. Marshal Foch didn't know there would be a crisis, but he was pretty certain that Versailles was simply setting up the stage for round 2.

[Walsingham]

Gotta agree with both Enoch and GD. Nationalism was on the rise all over Europe from the middle of the 19th century and culminating during the 1930's and the financial crisis,

 

I cannot possibly agree with that assertion. If anything the 1920s were about forging the foundations of intellectualism, anti-patriotic fervour and pacifism.

[Pidesco]

Gotta agree with both Enoch and GD. Nationalism was on the rise all over Europe from the middle of the 19th century and culminating during the 1930's and the financial crisis,

 

I cannot possibly agree with that assertion. If anything the 1920s were about forging the foundations of intellectualism, anti-patriotic fervour and pacifism.

 

Anti-patriotic fervour? No. Politically, the first half of the 20th century in Europe, including the 1920s, was all about ultra-nationalistic fervour. That tendency was only reversed by the massive carnage that Europe saw in WWII, which eventually led to relatively peaceful, non aggressive political stances all over Europe.

[Walsingham]

Gotta agree with both Enoch and GD. Nationalism was on the rise all over Europe from the middle of the 19th century and culminating during the 1930's and the financial crisis,

 

I cannot possibly agree with that assertion. If anything the 1920s were about forging the foundations of intellectualism, anti-patriotic fervour and pacifism.

 

Anti-patriotic fervour? No. Politically, the first half of the 20th century in Europe, including the 1920s, was all about ultra-nationalistic fervour. That tendency was only reversed by the massive carnage that Europe saw in WWII, which eventually led to relatively peaceful, non aggressive political stances all over Europe.

 

I hardly think so. The First world war saw the death of all that, even before the end. Indeed part of the reason why the start of WW2 saw France, Belgium _and Britain_ running from combat with soldiers all over the place was because many had grown up with no real sense of patriotism. IMO.

[213374U]

Good times, good times.