Apple accused of cruelty

[Walsingham]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/appl...ild-labour.html

 

Reading this article it strikes me that the real problem is that Apple have comissioned work to be done against a background which has almost inevitably lead to abuse of their workers. By which I mean no matter how hard Apple pushes in retrospect the foundations which they are working with are unsound (by Western employment standards). If this is true it suggests three things to me:

 

1) Apple's sins are likely to be common to all manufacturers who use Chinese labour

2) The action taken by Apple - which might be effective in Europe - will not stop the problems in China

3) If - and I mean if - one is bothered by this then it is probable that an 'ethical' alternative to Apple may not be possible.

[Orogun01]

OH, the humanity! Apple is using 15 years old children with pubic hair

If they are going to complain about child labor at least they could have the decency of do it where children are involved.

[Mamoulian War]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/appl...ild-labour.html

 

Reading this article it strikes me that the real problem is that Apple have comissioned work to be done against a background which has almost inevitably lead to abuse of their workers. By which I mean no matter how hard Apple pushes in retrospect the foundations which they are working with are unsound (by Western employment standards). If this is true it suggests three things to me:

 

1) Apple's sins are likely to be common to all manufacturers who use Chinese labour

2) The action taken by Apple - which might be effective in Europe - will not stop the problems in China

3) If - and I mean if - one is bothered by this then it is probable that an 'ethical' alternative to Apple may not be possible.

 

IMO 1) is the reality for many if not all businessess in countries with cheap labour... not only in China... Any bussiness will do anything to maximize the profit if it is not against the law/tradition/ethics in the country where it operates...

 

EDIT: lol 15-years old are not children... they are teenagers... they are legaly allowed to work in almost every "civilised" country... OFC not fulltime-jobs, but they are allowed... I got my first part-time job when i was 15 aswell...

Edited March 1, 2010 by Mamoulian War

[Humodour]

What the heck kind of misrepresentation is this?

 

Come on Wals, even Slashdot managed to put up an accurate summary: http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/02/28/1...Labor-Discovery

[Killian Kalthorne]

This sort of behavior is intolerable. It is too bad we can't enforce US labor laws and practices on US companies that manufactures materials out of the states. What I like to see is that if a country wants to do business with the US they need to adhere to our laws on use of labor, the use of hazardous materials, and minimum wage requirements. If they do not, place a heavy tariff on all imported goods.

[Hiro Protagonist]

This is terrible. I mean Western countries would never use 15 year olds to work. Goes to McDonalds, KFC, K-Mart, etc...

[Killian Kalthorne]

Here in Iowa,the youngest a kid can work at a regular job is 16, and they can only work part time until they reach 18. Before that there is work as a paperboy, but limited to no more than 100 addresses.

[Walsingham]

What the heck kind of misrepresentation is this?

 

Come on Wals, even Slashdot managed to put up an accurate summary: http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/02/28/1...Labor-Discovery

 

And the toxicity problems etc?

 

Or have I really got this all wrong?

[Hiro Protagonist]

At least they're not five years old with the kids working in India for all our athletes to compete in the Commonwealth Games.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/...d-and-milk.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2...15875-22011913/

[Purkake]

Heresy!

 

Apple can do no wrong.

[Hiro Protagonist]

I wonder if my iPhone was made by a kid? If so... damn fine work!

[Rosbjerg]

This sort of behavior is intolerable. It is too bad we can't enforce US labor laws and practices on US companies that manufactures materials out of the states.

 

I'm very happy that you can't - your laws do not universally fit every country. I simply wish the majority of companies would shift their production to India instead (it's as cheap in many cases), we need to support an Asian democracy instead.

[Hiro Protagonist]

EDIT: lol 15-years old are not children... they are teenagers... they are legaly allowed to work in almost every "civilised" country... OFC not fulltime-jobs, but they are allowed... I got my first part-time job when i was 15 aswell...

 

Apparently, they need to be 18 in China, we can conveniently ignore our own child labour so we can bash any large corporation that outsources in other countries that may be profitable.

[Killian Kalthorne]

This sort of behavior is intolerable. It is too bad we can't enforce US labor laws and practices on US companies that manufactures materials out of the states.

 

I'm very happy that you can't - your laws do not universally fit every country. I simply wish the majority of companies would shift their production to India instead (it's as cheap in many cases), we need to support an Asian democracy instead.

 

I think that a US company needs to adhere to US laws, even if their products are made in another country. I think that would be a very good idea.

[Volourn]

And, how is the US going to enforce this? It's nonsensical to even think they could.

 

One should follow the laws of the country you are in. Simple as that. It's why I plan to never leave NA. There's enough sneaky laws here to run foul of let alone other places where they cna't even drive on the right side of the road. LMAO

 

That reminds me, Killian, I'm guessing that Amerikans should be allowed to drive on the side of the road they do in NA no matter where theya re so they can follow Amerikan laws? L0LZ

Edited March 2, 2010 by Volourn

[Purkake]

...LMAO

 

...L0LZ

How I read Volo's posts.

[Volourn]

The above is how I read Purkake's posts.

[Hiro Protagonist]

This is how I see the story.

 

- Apple outsource their work to factories

- These factories use 15yo's to make parts

- Apple performs a voluntary audit of their factories

- Apple discovers illegal child labour, corrects the problem

- Apple publishes their audit on their website, for everybody to see

- Media fabricates a sensationalist story because it will sell papers

- End result: other companies will think twice before doing voluntary audits

 

BTW, I'm not an apple fanboy. I just dislike the spin in the media.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Maybe Apple should have checked into these companies before doing business with them.

[Killian Kalthorne]

And, how is the US going to enforce this? It's nonsensical to even think they could.

 

One should follow the laws of the country you are in. Simple as that. It's why I plan to never leave NA. There's enough sneaky laws here to run foul of let alone other places where they cna't even drive on the right side of the road. LMAO

 

That reminds me, Killian, I'm guessing that Amerikans should be allowed to drive on the side of the road they do in NA no matter where theya re so they can follow Amerikan laws? L0LZ

 

They can enforce it by increasing the tariffs on imported goods made by that company. Instead of paying the government, lets say $10 on a load of IPOds they force Apple to pay $100 on a load of IPods. We are talking about companies here, Volourn, not individuals.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Killian Kalthorne

[Volourn]

And, have all countries follow the US' lead and have instant tomfoolery on it.

 

Individual or not, your plan is silly.

 

Perhaps, China or Japan should force their companies to follow all their laws when doing business inn other countries.

 

It's silly talk. Companies should follow the law whichever country they are.

 

It's logical, it's make sense, and it's the way it should be.

[Purkake]

The above is how I read Purkake's posts.

I'd recommend a optometrist.

 

Cheers

[Walsingham]

Maybe Apple should have checked into these companies before doing business with them.

 

I probably didn't say it very clearly, but that was kinda my point. Except I was saying that if the host nation has bad labour laws as an endemic feature of their culture then pre-checked factories will swiftly be corrupted.

[Orogun01]

Maybe Apple should have checked into these companies before doing business with them.

 

I probably didn't say it very clearly, but that was kinda my point. Except I was saying that if the host nation has bad labour laws as an endemic feature of their culture then pre-checked factories will swiftly be corrupted.

But such labor laws may be necessary because of their culture and economy. Apple may just see a bunch of kids being exploited and tries to enforce their own laws; now I see a bunch of unemployed kids without any source of income.

It's really nice to have the quality of living that allows for the legal age of consent to be so high, but that's not the case on most of the world. Apple's (or any other company) complaining is just going to get the kids fired is not going affect the actual problem, which is the poverty that forces these children to work in the first place. That may not be true on this specific case. The fact of the matter is that while these practices should be shunned they actually aggravate the problem more, since now the unemployed children have no job and are blacklisted because of their age.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Children shouldn't need to be employed. They should focus on being kids, and on going to school. The only reason I got a job when I was a kid was to pay for my gaming.