lord of flies Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 You are one sour and humorless dude aren't you. I'm guessing you don't get laid much?Actually, I have sex quite regularly, since I am quite personable (even "overly kind") in real life. On the internet, however, my tone varies wildly, because I honestly don't care what you think of me. I mean, you don't even know how to use punctuation - the first sentence is a question ("aren't you" implies a question), whereas the second is a statement. Unless you're unsure what you're guessing.
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 In recent news here in Iowa there was this 18 year old man who chose to murder a another man in Coralville. He was found guilty and now faces Life in prison without parole. ALso on trial there is this woman who purposely slit the throat of her two year old son and 7 year old son throats in order to kill them. The 7 year old survived and told the police what happen. Is these the sort of people deserving a slap on the wrist and go to rehab? I don't think so. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
lord of flies Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 In recent news here in Iowa there was this 18 year old man who chose to murder a another man in Coralville. He was found guilty and now faces Life in prison without parole. ALso on trial there is this woman who purposely slit the throat of her two year old son and 7 year old son throats in order to kill them. The 7 year old survived and told the police what happen. Is these the sort of people deserving a slap on the wrist and go to rehab? I don't think so.Nice job with the context there. Why did the 18 year old choose to kill another man? Was that man, perhaps, a landlord who denied the 18 year old's family an apartment so they have lived homeless for six months since? Did he rape the boy's mother? Was he on drugs? Was he pressured into the killing by his peers? Did the victim kill the boy's father? What about the woman? Was she perfectly rational and acting normally, or was she suffering from temporary insanity? Postpartum trauma? Did she try to slit her own throat after attempting to kill her children? I sincerely doubt that a woman who raised a child to seven years was acting normally when she killed her two year old and tried to kill her eldest. But no, in Killian Kalthorne World, these people acted completely on their own choices; there were no external pressures that made them do this. It was a completely irrational and malicious act born of a completely rational and currently functional mind.
alanschu Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 In recent news here in Iowa there was this 18 year old man who chose to murder a another man in Coralville. He was found guilty and now faces Life in prison without parole. ALso on trial there is this woman who purposely slit the throat of her two year old son and 7 year old son throats in order to kill them. The 7 year old survived and told the police what happen. Is these the sort of people deserving a slap on the wrist and go to rehab? I don't think so. I'm not saying these people should be merely slapped on the wrist.
Hurlshort Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 You are one sour and humorless dude aren't you. I'm guessing you don't get laid much?Actually, I have sex quite regularly, since I am quite personable (even "overly kind") in real life. On the internet, however, my tone varies wildly, because I honestly don't care what you think of me. I mean, you don't even know how to use punctuation - the first sentence is a question ("aren't you" implies a question), whereas the second is a statement. Unless you're unsure what you're guessing. I've never understood why the internet is an excuse for folks to depart radically from their personalities. How is it any more appropriate to be insulting and condescending on a forum than in person? If anything, it seems more cowardly. Just be yourself.
Gorgon Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 You generally don't use question marks when you are not expecting an answer. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Guard Dog Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 You generally don't use question marks when you are not expecting an answer. Yep. Or when stating what is clearly self evidient. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Nice job with the context there. Why did the 18 year old choose to kill another man? Was that man, perhaps, a landlord who denied the 18 year old's family an apartment so they have lived homeless for six months since? Did he rape the boy's mother? Was he on drugs? Was he pressured into the killing by his peers? Did the victim kill the boy's father? What about the woman? Was she perfectly rational and acting normally, or was she suffering from temporary insanity? Postpartum trauma? Did she try to slit her own throat after attempting to kill her children? I sincerely doubt that a woman who raised a child to seven years was acting normally when she killed her two year old and tried to kill her eldest. But no, in Killian Kalthorne World, these people acted completely on their own choices; there were no external pressures that made them do this. It was a completely irrational and malicious act born of a completely rational and currently functional mind. The mother methodically bought duct tape and a knife. She used the duct tape to bound, tape gag, and blindfold her sons. She also wrote a note that details an abduction saying that a man took them to a secluded area and killed her sons. She did inflict injury on herself but not life threatening in order keep up the appearances of her story. She planned it all out. She was quite rational. She made the choice to kill children. As for the 18 year old, he was just looking for someone to rob and the man had the bad luck of being home. Gee, it is so nice that you show so much compassion for these criminals that you show none for their victims and their families, Flyboy. Edited October 31, 2009 by Killian Kalthorne "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 I'm not saying these people should be merely slapped on the wrist. My comment was mostly for Flyboy, Alan. I simply consider "rehab" as a slap on the wrist. An insult to the victims of these criminals. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
Walsingham Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 I'm not saying these people should be merely slapped on the wrist. My comment was mostly for Flyboy, Alan. I simply consider "rehab" as a slap on the wrist. An insult to the victims of these criminals. I take it you've never done rehab? "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) I take it you've never done rehab? Never had to, and never will. At least not as a patient. Edited October 31, 2009 by Killian Kalthorne "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
Rostere Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Before we continue this discussion I would like to ask you a question: do you know (or do you think you could easily read up on) Clifford Algebra?No, I don't think I can "easily" read up on advanced algebra, lol. I can read summaries and hopefully gain a superficial understanding of how one concept relates to another, but don't expect much more. I knew sooner or later I'd wish I had finished either of my degrees! Oh well. What exactly do you want to discuss, anyway? Well, if you're to be at the forefront of the discussion about determinism today I'm afraid that's what you'll have to learn, since the current matter of dispute is on the subject of Clifford Algebra applied to particle physics. I'm no expert at Clifford Algebra either - I know the basics of how it works, but I wouldn't say I'd knew exactly how to use it for any practical purpose. For your perusal: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0703179 "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"
213374U Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Well, if you're to be at the forefront of the discussion about determinism today I'm afraid that's what you'll have to learn, since the current matter of dispute is on the subject of Clifford Algebra applied to particle physics. I'm no expert at Clifford Algebra either - I know the basics of how it works, but I wouldn't say I'd knew exactly how to use it for any practical purpose. For your perusal: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0703179 As I suspected, that went way over my head. After a bit of research though, it seems that Christian's work hasn't been published in any peer-reviewed journals yet. It may be that they are pulling a Galileo on the poor guy, but it also may be that he's simply wrong. Calling that evidence against a well established theory to support determinism is stretching it a bit, methinks. At any rate, a counterexample to a theorem doesn't exclude the possibility that a version of the theorem with revised premises (as the theorem itself cannot be disproven, and it's the interpretation of EPR's topology that the paper attacks) can be formulated, no? The jury's still out on this one, it seems. Nice read anyway, thanks. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
lord of flies Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 The mother methodically bought duct tape and a knife. She used the duct tape to bound, tape gag, and blindfold her sons. She also wrote a note that details an abduction saying that a man took them to a secluded area and killed her sons. She did inflict injury on herself but not life threatening in order keep up the appearances of her story. She planned it all out. She was quite rational. She made the choice to kill children.And? What was her reason? All you've stated is that she was capable of performing the action with a high probability of success. That does not mean she was acting rationally or normally. As for the 18 year old, he was just looking for someone to rob and the man had the bad luck of being home.Did the man also have a gun? Because at that point any confrontation immediately escalates to a life-threatening one and cannot be expected to end well. Gee, it is so nice that you show so much compassion for these criminals that you show none for their victims and their families, Flyboy.We weren't discussing the victims. Yep. Or when stating what is clearly self evidient.I actually giggle like a little girl when I read some of your posts, so it'd be difficult to call me humorless. My comment was mostly for Flyboy, Alan. I simply consider "rehab" as a slap on the wrist. An insult to the victims of these criminals.And I consider retributive justice an insult to the victims of these criminals. It is saying "Yeah, this will probably create more victims down the line... but **** it, I love revenge!"
Walsingham Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 I actually giggle like a little girl when I read some of your posts, so it'd be difficult to call me humorless. Strangely enough, giggling like a little girl is exactly how I imagined you. Glasses flashing in the light of the fire, and sweating with revolutionary enthusiasm. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Killian Kalthorne Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) It isn't retributive justice, Flyboy. It is simply just punishment for the crime. As for her reason to act as she did, I would think that would be obvious. She didn't want to take care of the kids any more so she concocted a way to get rid of them. And no, the other guy did not have a gun. He was defenseless. You seem to try to make it the victim's fault in these crimes. That it is the poor criminal that has been wronged. It is just sick. Edited November 1, 2009 by Killian Kalthorne "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
lord of flies Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 It isn't retributive justice, Flyboy. It is simply just punishment for the crime."Punishment for the crime" is retributive justice. I'm trying to find the words, but none are forthcoming.You seem to try to make it the victim's fault in these crimes. That it is the poor criminal that has been wronged. It is just sick.I'm not the one dehumanizing criminals and pretending like they're evil robots.
213374U Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 I'm not the one dehumanizing criminals and pretending like they're evil robots.In a sense, you are implying that all humans are evil robots... - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
alanschu Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 No, I think that's the way he'd like the humans to be. Only then can we be communist!
Killian Kalthorne Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 Just punishment is not retributive. Let the punishment fit the crime. In those two cases the just punishment would be Life In Prison Without Possibility of Parole. Now if the crime was only armed robbery with that punishment, that would be retributive and excessive. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
213374U Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) Just punishment is not retributive.Um, yes it is - retribution and punishment are fundamentally the same, they are synonyms. Simply adding "just" doesn't change that, especially given the arbitrariness of the notion. Oh, I remember now. The LAW is the LAW and nobody is above the LAW. Edited November 1, 2009 by 213374U - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Walsingham Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 Even assuming you were correct, Sando, how would you establish what WAS appropriate? Exactly how punished should I be for stealing a pencil case? Punching a vicar? What if the vicar had really weird teeth and spat when he spoke? "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Killian Kalthorne Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 That's a judge's job to figure out, not mine. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
Walsingham Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 That's a judge's job to figure out, not mine. Oh, well that's ok then. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
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