Planescape: Torment Topic

[Guest PoziomyPion]

On the other hand, i'm curious how many people here would find Torment's story interesting, if they were completely unfamiliar with the DnD setting. I think it's considered a "niche" game because it's mainly targeted at DnD players.

 

Well when I played Torment for the firtst time, I had no clue what D&D is, even tough I played Baldur's Gate before. I tought that D&D was made purely for those games and enjoyed them a lot.

It was only later when I had been blessed with the amazing and glorious new god - Internet - that I learnt about D&D.

[Gorgon]

Call me stupid, but I actually think there would be money in a PST sequel.

[Mamoulian War]

No, which is why inexperienced people do not get a vote. Art is an elite thing - has been and always will be. You have to know the subject thoroughly to reconize the artistic value of it.

That's pretty rich considering that Van Gogh (among others) was horribly underappreciated during his lifetime. I guess his contemporaries believed themselves to be every bit as enlightened as you believe yourself to be.

 

"Art" is make-believe.

Planescape Torment was released a decade ago, which is a practically a century in the video game world and we're still talking about it. That's more than 90% of games can claim.

 

To be fair, we are talking about it because this is the ex-BIS and generally wRPG-oriented forum.

 

Pretty much no one else is talking about it.

 

this can be written as:

 

To be fair, we are talking about Van Gogh because we are all graduates of Classic Art Universities.

 

Pretty much no one else is talking about it.

 

 

Does that mean Van Gogh is all of a sudden not art?

[Amentep]

The art discussion always goes straight to hell.

 

Yeah, but so do half the regular discussion topics on the internet.

 

The other half take the circuitous route.

[Mamoulian War]

As a 30 year old who played Torment for the first time in 2008, i beg to differ. Torment is great for anyone who enjoys computer DnD, macabre atmosphere, mind boggling quests and well-written walls of text. Age and nostalgia are pretty irrelevant, for me at least.

 

On the other hand, i'm curious how many people here would find Torment's story interesting, if they were completely unfamiliar with the DnD setting. I think it's considered a "niche" game because it's mainly targeted at DnD players.

 

edit: My favorite thing about Torment is that it's set in a fantasy setting, and yet in the whole game there is only 1 magic sword, and you can't use it. I <3 Torment.

 

 

I was completely unfamiliar with ADnD (and any other PnP RPG games) at the time i played Torment... I fell in love with the story on first play

[Mamoulian War]

Call me stupid, but I actually think there would be money in a PST sequel.

 

But only if it would use the 2D engine like infinity... If anybody would try to make such a story into current gen Graphics, Audio, Voiceovers.. etc, then i think we would see a game which could put the name Duke Nukem Forever into shame in the term of lenghty development or Windows Vista in the term of costly development

 

But yes i would not hesitate to pay bonus price for such a game (of course only if it would come DRM-free or with disk-check only )

[Purkake]

this can be written as:

 

To be fair, we are talking about Van Gogh because we are all graduates of Classic Art Universities.

 

Pretty much no one else is talking about it.

 

 

Does that mean Van Gogh is all of a sudden not art?

 

That's a horrible analogy. Van Gogh is widely known and discussed everywhere where art is discussed. PST is something that very few people even know exists.

 

Also, whoever brought up PST being on the GOG wishlist, just because ~6500 people want it released isn't the same as them talking about it.

 

There would only be money in a PST sequel when done on an extreme budget, but with similar quality.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Purkake

[Guest PoziomyPion]

I would be happy if someone used Infinity Engine to make another RPG, but on a handheld console like PSP. THere is a market for RPG's with "old" graphics on those little machines, those games do not cost 30 million $$$ to make, and they are very playable. Heck most jRPGs on handhelds are turn based and no one realy complains about it!

 

I would love to be able to play OBSIDIANs cRPG on a PSP.

 

I wonder how hard and costly would it be to port Torment onto the handhelds?

[Amentep]

this can be written as:

 

To be fair, we are talking about Van Gogh because we are all graduates of Classic Art Universities.

 

Pretty much no one else is talking about it.

 

 

Does that mean Van Gogh is all of a sudden not art?

 

That's a horrible analogy. Van Gogh is widely known and discussed everywhere where art is discussed. PST is something that very few people even know exists.

 

I'm not so sure that people discussing the art of movies, the art of architecture or the art of literature would discuss van Gogh much. In that sense, van Gogh is not discussed everywhere. Art always intersects people's lives differently and through different media. People are more inclined to think of the art they have the most personal experience in than in other forms. If you're not specifically talking about the visual arts and the medium of painting, van Gogh may never get a thought.

 

PST has some respect within the community that looks at the media of video games, so the possibility of a wide discussion is limited (particularly given that video games haven't really been acknowledged as an artistic medium yet, as far as I know)

[Mamoulian War]

this can be written as:

 

To be fair, we are talking about Van Gogh because we are all graduates of Classic Art Universities.

 

Pretty much no one else is talking about it.

 

 

Does that mean Van Gogh is all of a sudden not art?

 

That's a horrible analogy. Van Gogh is widely known and discussed everywhere where art is discussed. PST is something that very few people even know exists.

 

Also, whoever brought up PST being on the GOG wishlist, just because ~6500 people want it released isn't the same as them talking about it.

 

There would only be money in a PST sequel when done on an extreme budget, but with similar quality.

 

No it's not... PST is widely known and discussed everywhere where CRPGs are discussed... See what i did there?

[Purkake]

Anyone thinking that Torment is more than a footnote in gaming is fooling themselves.

 

Why is it so hard to take a step back and look at things from any other perspective than the tiny niche that is this forums and old wRPGs in general?

 

I would be happy if someone used Infinity Engine to make another RPG, but on a handheld console like PSP. THere is a market for RPG's with "old" graphics on those little machines, those games do not cost 30 million $$$ to make, and they are very playable. Heck most jRPGs on handhelds are turn based and no one realy complains about it!

 

I would love to be able to play OBSIDIANs cRPG on a PSP.

 

I wonder how hard and costly would it be to port Torment onto the handhelds?

 

There is that tiny problem of the PSP having one damn barely functional analog "knob". The interface is way too complicated for any of the PSP and it could use a few more pixels.

 

It's pretty easy to play it on a netbook or a tablet.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Purkake

[Mamoulian War]

Anyone thinking that Torment is more than a footnote in gaming is fooling themselves.

 

Why is it so hard to take a step back and look at things from any other perspective than the tiny niche that is this forums and old wRPGs in general?

 

why is it so hard to step back and look at things from any other perspective that current hyped main stream way in general?

[Purkake]

Anyone thinking that Torment is more than a footnote in gaming is fooling themselves.

 

Why is it so hard to take a step back and look at things from any other perspective than the tiny niche that is this forums and old wRPGs in general?

 

why is it so hard to step back and look at things from any other perspective that current hyped main stream way in general?

 

Because that is the perspective that we are discussing things in at the moment? Gaming in general.

[Mamoulian War]

ehm no... Gaming in general != hyped main stream only games... Gaming in general = halo + PST + Barbie Pony Farm etc etc, in other words all games that were ever crated, and like it or not, PST is one of the most noteworthy games in "Gaming as general category", while Barbie Pony Farm or hyped mainstream game like Daikatana is not...

Edited September 14, 2009 by Mamoulian War

[Purkake]

You brought up the "hyped mainstream games" BTW. I agree that gaming in general is all games ever created and of those games PST is just a footnote in the "Awesome story" category. Most of the people today would find it too complicated/read-y/pc-only to even bother playing it.

 

Barbie Pony Farm and Daikatana?

 

Try Super Mario Bros, The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario Kart, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario 64, Goldeneye, FFVII, Tomb Raider, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Command and Conquer, SimCity, Starcraft, Civilization.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Purkake

[Oner]

You brought up the "hyped mainstream games" BTW. I agree that gaming in general is all games ever created and of those games PST is just a footnote in the "Awesome story" category. Most of the people today would find it too complicated/read-y/pc-only to even bother playing it.

To be fair, reading that ****load of text was tiring. That aside, I don't think PST isn't a footnote, I daresay a lot of game developers know it and learn from (or ignore) it, even if they don't talk about it all the time. What would the industry look like if PST would be the "in" game?

 

BTW Purk, I don't get why you listed those games you did. I'm confused.

[Purkake]

To bring out some of the games that were very important to their genre and are loved or at least well known by most people who are in the "gaming in general".

Edited September 14, 2009 by Purkake

[Slowtrain]

The art discussion always goes straight to hell.

 

Yeah, but so do half the regular discussion topics on the internet.

 

The other half take the circuitous route.

 

 

 

Everything on the internet goes to hell eventually.

[Slowtrain]

I maintain that art is art regardless of personal likes and dislikes, or the capacity of the individual to recognize it as such.

 

 

I might make the argument that art is a process not a result and as such cannot be evaluated simply as a end product.

[Oner]

To bring out some of the games that were very important to their genre and are loved or at least well known by most people who are in the "gaming in general".

I see.

 

I might make the argument that art is a process not a result and as such cannot be evaluated simply as an end product.

That makes sense to me. Kinda.

[Guest Slinky]

I might make the argument that art is a process not a result and as such cannot be evaluated simply as a end product.

So thats why I never understand modern art! They are all work in progress!

 

Meh, I wouldn't know art even if it would come and paint me green. With abstract figures.

[Slowtrain]

I might make the argument that art is a process not a result and as such cannot be evaluated simply as a end product.

So thats why I never understand modern art! They are all work in progress!

 

Meh, I wouldn't know art even if it would come and paint me green. With abstract figures.

 

 

I'm not saying it is or it isn't. I'm just pointing out that looking at a finished object and pointing to it and saying "art" or "not art" is not the only way to attempt to figure out what art is.

[Istima Loke]

I'm very fond of this description of art, by Alfred North Whitehead:

 

Art is the imposing of a pattern on experience, and our aesthetic enjoyment in recognition of the pattern.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Anyone thinking that Torment is more than a footnote in gaming is fooling themselves.

 

Depends on what sort of history you're writing. If its the corporate history it wouldn't even be mentioned. If you're talking actual innovation its part of the unavoidable infinity engine period of wRPG.

 

Matt Barton on gamasutra did a great piece on it, as he's an RPG nut.

[Amentep]

The art discussion always goes straight to hell.

 

Yeah, but so do half the regular discussion topics on the internet.

 

The other half take the circuitous route.

 

Everything on the internet goes to hell eventually.

 

Indeed!