North Korea: Great Country, or Greatest Country?

[lord of flies]

 

North Korea, henceforth referred to as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea or the DPRK, was founded by partisans who had spent literally decades fighting the brutal Japanese imperialists. South Korea on the other hand was a continuation of the occupation regime carried out under a new master, the USA. Almost every individual of any political or military importance in South Korea was a holdover from the Japanese administration.

 

Not only that, North Korea was in fact a localised and independent continuation of the People's Republic of Korea

 

The Japanese colonial authorities requested that a government be established to ensure the safety of their persons and property after the occupation ended. Under the leadership of Yeo Un-hyeong, the newly-formed PRK set up people's committees throughout the country to coordinate the transition to independence.

North of the 38th parallel north, the PRK's local structure was maintained under Soviet occupation to become the basis of the modern North Korean party structure

 

Shortly after the American landing in September 1945, the new United States Army Military Government in Korea, which controlled the peninsula south of the 38th parallel, abolished the PRK government by military decree, primarily because of suspicions that it was Communist. Some local units of the People's Republic remained active in the Jeolla region and especially on Jeju Island, where their presence, together with marauding anti-communist youth gangs, contributed to tensions that discharged in the events known as Jeju massacre.

 

The Korean war is generally presented to us as one in which the north launched an unprovoked attack on the 25th June 1950 on the grounds that the DPRK had permission from the USSR to attack, in fact there is a great deal of evidence that the war was begun by the south and that in any case the official beginning of the war only amounted to a quantitative increase in fighting which had already been going on for some time.

 

The North Korean version of events is that their invasion was provoked by two days of bombardment by the South Koreans, on the 23rd and 24th, followed by a surprise South Korean attack across the border on the 25th against the western town of Haeju and other places. Announcement of the Southern attack was broadcast over the North's radio later in the morning of the 25th.

 

Contrary to general belief at the time, no United Nations group - neither the UN Military Observer Group in the field nor the UN Commission on Korea in Seoul - witnessed, or claimed to have witnessed, the outbreak of hostilities. The Observer Group's field trip along the parallel ended on 23 June. It's statements about what took place afterward are either speculation or based on information received from the South Korean government or the US military.

 

Moreover, early in the morning of the 26th, the South Korean Office of Public Information announced that Southern forces had indeed captured the North Korean town of Haeju. The announcement stated that the attack had occurred that same morning, but an American military status report as of nightfall on the 25th notes that all Southern territory west of of the Imjin River had been lost to a depth of at least three miles inside the border except in the area of the Haeju "counter-attack"

During the war the combing carried out of the North by the US was so extensive and intensive that the north lost at the very least 1'500'000 people and likely as many as 4'000'000. This constituted a higher proportional loss of population than Cambodia suffered under the Khmer Rouge. By the end of the war more than half of the buildings in North Korea had been destroyed and around a quarter of the population were living in caves.

 

Before and during the war the South Korean government carried out numerous massacres of suspected leftists and others.

 

The post-war history of the two Koreas is an interesting one. For most of the period the North was considerably better off than the south. A little known fact is that up til the late 1970's the North used to send food aid to the South rather than the other way round. Up until this time North Korea was the second most industrialised east Asian nation, the first of course being Japan.

 

Another piece of information that's gone down the memory hole is that until 1987 South Korea was a military dictatorship. This was then overturned in the Great Workers Struggle

 

Another highlight of the period is North Korea defeating Italy in 1966 World Cup and making it through to the quarter finals.

 

In 1991 the DPRK lost her most significant trading partner with the collapse of the USSR. This combined with record-breaking floods followed by record-breaking droughts in 1995 resulted in famine conditions.

 

In assessing this we must remember the role of the "sanctions" placed upon the DPRK by the imperialist countries. For example, a favourite trick used on the DPRK and others (for example Yugoslavia) is to prohibit the target country from importing chlorine on the grounds that it is a "dual use" substance and can be used to make chemical weapons. The point of this manouver is that without chlorine you cannot operate a water-purification plant, leading to the spread of Typhus, cholera and other diseases. Ironically, this blockade, ostensibly put in place to prevent chemical attack, in fact constitutes a biological attack.

 

The number of deaths caused by this famine is estimated to lie between 200'000 and 900'000. During this period250'000-300'000 North Koreans sought refuge in China, most of whom have since returned without major incident or being punished.

 

The DPRK maintains that although the people suffered great hardship nobody died. This is an incredible claim, however I would suggest that there may be a great dal of overlap between the number of people lost and the number who fled to China.

 

We are all familiar with the long list of atrocity stories concerning the North Korean authorities as well as claims concerning the lavish lifestyle of Kim Jong-Il. Although in a country of millions suffering such incredible hardship it would be a miracle if no such abuses occurred, when we read such things as "The Bright Eyes of the Tailless Beasts" we must consider the lengths to which the USA has gone to vilify other enemies.

 

My two favourite examples:

 

Nurse Nayirah[/url]"]15-year old Nayirah, who gave testimony anonymously, testified before the Human Rights Caucus of the United States Congress in October 1990 that she was a refugee volunteering in the maternity ward of Al Adan hospital in Kuwait City, and that during the Iraqi occupation she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers killing Kuwaiti infants in an incubator room:

[Purkake]

Wait, didn't you get banned already?

[Tigranes]

The post-war history of the two Koreas is an interesting one. For most of the period the North was considerably better off than the south. A little known fact is that up til the late 1970's the North used to send food aid to the South rather than the other way round. Up until this time North Korea was the second most industrialised east Asian nation, the first of course being Japan.

 

In the 60's the standard of living and for that matter civil rights were far better in the north than the south.

 

Interesting, first I hear of this. Evidence?

 

I think the difficulty we have in getting clear, well-substantiated estimates about the quality of life in North Korea is a serious problem, especially in any discussions about reunification or collapse of DPRK - the best we have are the testimonies of asylum seekers (which are likely to exaggerate the terrible q.o.l, naturally) or clandestine photographs from Western visitors, which show, for example, swathes of disorderly straw/wood shacks that cover the ground between modern skyscrapers that line publicity photos (kind of like a badly designed Sim City).

[alanschu]

Perhaps you should emigrate?

[theslug]

Didn't read more than a few lines and my history is shaky and near non existent but if North Korea didn't start the war how exactly were they able to mobilize and completely consume South Korea in such a short amount of time. If South Korea planned an invasion and started it I doubt they'd get slaughtered all that quick. But then again I know virtually nothing on the subject and mostly you make horrible threads/posts and just wanted to say something that challenged you.

[Hurlshort]

If North Korea is such a nice place, why are there so many North Koreans trying to get out of the country?

 

 

It's a simple formula, people try to sneak into good countries and out of bad ones.

[lord of flies]

If North Korea is such a nice place, why are there so many North Koreans trying to get out of the country?

 

 

It's a simple formula, people try to sneak into good countries and out of bad ones.

1979, Iran. Counter-revolutionaries fled in large amounts, which they would have just as much if the revolution had been a purely democratic one, rather than a democratic/religious one.

 

I also explained a major cause for emigration, which is the famine and economic collapse following the demise of the Soviet Union (one of the greatest tragedies in modern history).

Interesting, first I hear of this. Evidence?

Sorry, I can't seem to find my source again. I'll work on it.

Didn't read more than a few lines and my history is shaky and near non existent but if North Korea didn't start the war how exactly were they able to mobilize and completely consume South Korea in such a short amount of time. If South Korea planned an invasion and started it I doubt they'd get slaughtered all that quick. But then again I know virtually nothing on the subject and mostly you make horrible threads/posts and just wanted to say something that challenged you.

Hmm, yes, it is literally impossible that a country can be attacked and then counterattack with massive success. No country defending itself has ever been prepared for war. Escalation has never taken place by both sides prior to war.

 

My threads/posts are not horrible, by the way.

Wait, didn't you get banned already?

No, I didn't, stop asking me that.

Perhaps you should emigrate?

There are three major problems with this post here:

Firstly: I never said that it was a better place to live than the United States.

Secondly: I stated that quality of life, while not as atrocious as many capitalist countries, has gone down significantly in recent years.

Thirdly: A major premise is that the DPRK has been being ruined by western sanctions (such as removing their ability to have clean water).

[Killian Kalthorne]

The North Korean government executes people for passing out Bibles, Lord of Flies. You lose.

[Oblarg]

Lord of Flies, ever one of your posts makes my day.

[lord of flies]

The North Korean government executes people for passing out Bibles, Lord of Flies. You lose.

Where did you get this from? Reactionary exiles? From the Department of State's "2008 Human Rights Report on the Democratic People's Republic of Korea*":

*Note on Sourcing: The United States does not have diplomatic relations with the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. North Korea does not allow representatives of foreign governments, journalists, or other invited guests the freedom of movement that would enable them to assess fully human rights conditions or confirm reported abuses. Refugee testimony often is dated because of the time lapse between refugee departures from North Korea and contact with NGOs or officials able to document human rights conditions, although in recent years some refugees have been able to relate their stories in a more timely fashion.

Basically, it's a long rant about how terrible North Korea is, followed by "we don't have any evidence for any of this."

[Laozi]

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/seoultrain/

 

Check, Checkit

[lord of flies]

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/seoultrain/

 

Check, Checkit

History page suddenly jumps from 1953 to 1982. No thanks.

 

Also... oh no! Not a country which sends "illegal" immigrants back to where they came from.

 

edit: found a source on DPRK being ahead of RoK until the late 60s: Time.

But the disappearance of foreign subsidies following the collapse of the Soviet Union saw a rapid de-industrialization

Edited August 20, 2009 by lord of flies

[Laozi]

What was the name of that little Indonesian dude who listened to all that bad music and never knew what he was talking about?

[Killian Kalthorne]

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53863

 

Anyway, there is nothing you can say that would make me believe that North Korea is a good wholesome country. Only thing that matters is freedom. Nothing more and nothing less. North Koreans don't have the freedom to do squat.

[lord of flies]

Anyway, there is nothing you can say that would make me believe that North Korea is a good wholesome country. Only thing that matters is freedom. Nothing more and nothing less. North Koreans don't have the freedom to do squat.

Better to live free in Somalia, than in Lenin's RSFSR, is that right?

[Killian Kalthorne]

Yes.

[lord of flies]

Yes.

You do realize Lenin legalized homosexuality, abortions and no-fault divorces, right?

[Killian Kalthorne]

However, if you say one word of dissent you would be executed.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Killian Kalthorne

[lord of flies]

However, if you say one word of dissent you would be executed.

Did you know that Tories were lynched en masse in the revolutionary USA in what amounted to a purge?

[Killian Kalthorne]

And that is relevant to the 21st century how?

 

You go back in history long enough in any country you will see atrocities. Humanity is known for its ability to cruel and malicious to members of its own species. That is just what we are.

[lord of flies]

And that is relevant to the 21st century how?

 

You go back in history long enough in any country you will see atrocities. Humanity is known for its ability to cruel and malicious to members of its own species. That is just what we are.

The point is that all revolution is drenched in blood. Don't like it, go back to enjoying ancient, barbaric absolutist monarchies.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Just because all revolutions are drenched in blood does not make all revolutions right.

[lord of flies]

Just because all revolutions are drenched in blood does not make all revolutions right.

Correct. The correct statement is that all progressive revolutions are right, ergo the fact that they are drenched in blood is irrelevant. The worker's state is the most progressive of all ideals, therefore all the blood shed in its processes is irrelevant.

[Laozi]

Just because all revolutions are drenched in blood does not make all revolutions right.

Correct. The correct statement is that all progressive revolutions are right, ergo the fact that they are drenched in blood is irrelevant. The worker's state is the most progressive of all ideals, therefore all the blood shed in its processes is irrelevant.

 

 

Also the complete lack of toilet paper should be ignored as well

[lord of flies]

Also the complete lack of toilet paper should be ignored as well

Yes, the lack of toilet paper is just the most horrific thing, and definitely a consequence of the communist system and not the crushing depression/famine/economic isolation that the DPRK is being put through.