Viability of not killing opponents?

[Oner]

One of those things is not something you can actually do.

Rats, I was looking forward for flashbang headthrows.

[Fearless_Jedi]

Well I see no reason to argue the point anymore seeing as a dev confirmed the lack of a disarm ability.

 

I can't wait till I get the chance to run into a couple of guys rounding a corner in some narrow corridor and get my ass handed to me because I can only attack one guy at a time with CQC. Of course ill start pummeling one of them (because its quicker than my handgun) while the other walks around awkwardly while he unloads a few clips of bullets in my backside. Then Ill try to attack that guy and find that less than a few seconds later the other guy I was beating on is no longer stunned and has now proceeded to continue the lead(Pb) raping of my backside. I may luckily find that i now have a takedown for which to use giving me the ability to finish off one opponent. Of coarse right as I turn to finish off the other guy a new screen fades in saying "You failed to prevent the bad guys from destroying the world. What would your mother say? Reload game?".

 

Of coarse this is compared to a similar scenario where I immediately disarm both opponents after running into them. This of coarse betters my odds because they now must face me using only their fists. Since, I decided to put a few extra points in CQC, blocking their attacks and pummeling them till they bleed to death has given me a euphoric feeling reminding me that my 60 dollars didn't go to waste when I bought this game. Hurray, I get to enjoy the end cutscene showing me sailing into the moonlight with who(m) ever I picked as love interests in the game, readying myself for a second playthru.

 

Now I know my whining about it wont get anywhere. However, i prefer to consider this the complaint I'm going to write when scenario 1 occurs and I ask myself why a company that says they were inspired by modern spy movies/shows/video games wouldn't notice how essential it is in CQC to disarm. Bond does it, Bourne does it, and Bauer does it (not to mention that its an essential part of police and military combatives). They must be taking some serious drugs over at Obsidian to miss this one.

 

Seriously though, if Obsidian just admits that they completely blanked on the idea until after their purchased time at the local motion capture studio and they just don't want to spend any more money on the production side then that's fine and at least my sixty bucks will be going to an honest company.

 

But, if this is all because Obsidian just don't wanna do it then I wanna know if they have any idea how many of the hit spy themed action games that came out in the last 5 years didn't have disarms in it. Answer: Not many. After all you just need one animation and a little recoding, something that would take a skilled modder less than a week to do.

 

Now you might not like what I had to say but its not like im asking for a dead to rights level of detail in the disarms. Hell, Hitman Blood Money had the worst disarm animation Ive ever seen but it was good enough for me. In the end its all the little details in a game's gameplay that give it that little extra which separates good/unique games from Mass Effect knockoffs. I personally believe that if your not willing to go that extra mile then you don't deserve to make video games.

 

Don't flame me unless the game does end up having disarms. Then, off coarse, I would be the "bad guy" and I would deserve it.

 

PS: I've got 20 bucks that says at least 2 major game reviewers bust AP for not having disarms.

 

Edit: I'm glad you're passionate, but don't bypass the curseword censor - Matt.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Matthew Rorie

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I thought the Hitman disarm was fine. Was it not flashy enough or something?

[Fearless_Jedi]

I thought the Hitman disarm was fine. Was it not flashy enough or something?

 

It could just be the poor video card in my computer.

[Matthew Rorie]

There's actually an activated ability in our Martial Arts tree that I don't think we've talked about much yet which is pretty cool. It's not a disarm technique, but if you ever get into a tight spot with enemies, such as the one you wrote about above, and you want to beat them to death, it lets you do so in a pretty flashy and awesome way. Maybe someone will write about it in E3 coverage.

 

And by the way, we have our own mocap studio.

[Oner]

...

So, because there won't be a disarm ability, the CQC will be unbalanced, you have no chance in group fights, the game will suck, and Obs consists of drug addicted idiots, and they don't deserve to make games. Because there's no disarm.

 

Don't flame me unless the game does end up having disarms. Then, off coarse, I would be the "bad guy" and I would deserve it.

But of course you're allowed to flame Obs, because they don't make a disarm move.

 

PS: I've got 20 bucks that says at least 2 major game reviewers bust AP for not having disarms.

50 bucks say the game will be bashed because there is no pinkie finger animation when holding teacups.

 

Aren't you a wee bit too obsessed with disarming? Or

are you just trolling?

 

 

On a different note, why do people say that they look forward to games and/or, that they're fans of the developers, then try to butt in in everything instead of just letting them make the game? I never told anyone what they should be doing and just enjoyed the games for how they were. Note, I'm not talking about suggestions, I'm talking about game mechanics, story element, etc. Like that Diablo 3 mess with the "not enough darkness" and all.

[Humodour]

There's no disarming in AP. There are ways to get close to an enemy without having them fire at you, though, such as using cover to advance on them, stealthing up behind them, using a noisemaker to lure them close to you before taking them out, using a flashbang to temporarily blind them (the new flashbang effect is pretty rad), or just waiting for them to reload before charging them. Or loading up on armor mods to increase the amount of damage you can shrug off. Or catching the bullets they throw at you, using your Elemental Magic powers to form them into a ball of primal embers, then invoking the power of Su'Ra, the Sun God, to repel them backwards at your foes.

 

 

One of those things is not something you can actually do.

 

*nerdgasms*

[Fearless_Jedi]

There's actually an activated ability in our Martial Arts tree that I don't think we've talked about much yet which is pretty cool. It's not a disarm technique, but if you ever get into a tight spot with enemies, such as the one you wrote about above, and you want to beat them to death, it lets you do so in a pretty flashy and awesome way. Maybe someone will write about it in E3 coverage.

 

Ok well maybe I overreacted a bit. If you can get an ability that helps you engage multiple enemies then there may be hope yet. Just tell me this: can enemies still fire their weapons while you hit them with CQC? I forget what game it was but I remember that in one game if you didn't disarm an opponent they could continue shooting you even while you where pummeling them.

 

Scenario reimagined: I run into two guys as they round a narrow corridor. I enter multiple beatdown mode and engage both opponents at the same time. They fall down cradling their multiple fractures and I beat the game.

 

So, because there won't be a disarm ability, the CQC will be unbalanced, you have no chance in group fights, the game will suck, and Obs consists of drug addicted idiots, and they don't deserve to make games. Because there's no disarm.

 

What can I say? I feel very strongly about having a disarm ability. In my opinion disarms seem to be essential to CQC in the spy genre. Now maybe I did overreact but you would have to design CQC extra well to make up for the lack of disarms. On the other hand, I have consider the small possibility that disarms could mess with the item drop mechanism they have in place (or some other unforeseen game mechanic).

 

50 bucks say the game will be bashed because there is no pinkie finger animation when holding teacups.

 

Aren't you a wee bit too obsessed with disarming? Or are you just trolling?

 

On a different note, why do people say that they look forward to games and/or, that they're fans of the developers, then try to butt in in everything instead of just letting them make the game? I never told anyone what they should be doing and just enjoyed the games for how they were. Note, I'm not talking about suggestions, I'm talking about game mechanics, story element, etc. Like that Diablo 3 mess with the "not enough darkness" and all.

 

I'll take that bet! You all are witnesses!

 

Obviously if I was trolling I wouldn't admit to overreacting. Still, in my opinion you can't be too obsessed with disarming. Like I already said I feel that it is essential to the genre and not having it seems counter productive when the goal is to give the player a super spy experience in the game.

 

Some of the best games out there became that way because the developers decided to actually read the forums and find out what the community wanted to see in the game. In this area, Obsidian is doing a great job. In my opinion just letting a developer make a game without any sort of feedback from the people who are going to be buying the game is a huge mistake. True it can get annoying if someone fights the developer on everything, but in my defense disarming and CQC implementation are the only issues I've argued about.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Fearless_Jedi

[Oner]

I hear ya.

Some of the best games out there became that way because the developers decided to actually read the forums and find out what the community wanted to see in the game. In this area, Obsidian is doing a great job. In my opinion just letting a developer make a game without any sort of feedback from the people who are going to be buying the game is a huge mistake. True it can get annoying if someone fights the developer on everything, but in my defense disarming and CQC implementation are the only issues I've argued about.

I have no problem with feedback. Feedback is good. What I meant are exaggerated/outright stupid ideas. Like, say, "hey Mr. Rorie, you know what AP should have? Space vampires from planet Cyclone-B. That would be awesome!!1!1" (Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but this was the best I could come up with right now.)

[Fearless_Jedi]

Well stupid ideas are unavoidable when looking at the spy genre. I'm surprised no one has asked for Austin Powers to make a cameo in the game, maybe have a hairless cat at the safe house, or perhaps a boss fight with a bald midget. If James Bond can get away with hat throwing as an actual danger to be avoided then pretty much anything seems rational.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I have no problem with feedback. Feedback is good. What I meant are exaggerated/outright stupid ideas. Like, say, "hey Mr. Rorie, you know what AP should have? Space vampires from planet Cyclone-B. That would be awesome!!1!1" (Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but this was the best I could come up with right now.)

 

And gun disarms as seen all over the place in Bond and Bourne films is an exaggerated/outright stupid idea?

[Oner]

And gun disarms as seen all over the place in Bond and Bourne films is an exaggerated/outright stupid idea?

*Sigh*

On a different note

Read man, read.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

So, you're instead talking about hypothetical ideas that haven't been proposed? I hope you can understand why I might have misread.

[Oner]

Yeah, to both sentences.

[Humodour]

Well stupid ideas are unavoidable when looking at the spy genre. I'm surprised no one has asked for Austin Powers to make a cameo in the game, maybe have a hairless cat at the safe house, or perhaps a boss fight with a bald midget. If James Bond can get away with hat throwing as an actual danger to be avoided then pretty much anything seems rational.

 

Oh man, I hope some of these ideas make it in the game. Nothing wrong with a bit of humour! See No One Lives Forever for information on how to do it.

[J.E. Sawyer]

I can't find the old CQC thread, but I wanted to let folks know that we have added two additional 5-move CQC chains in the interest of variety (for a total of four). It makes a big difference, so it was a good thing for the community to bring up.

[Oner]

Yayness, thank you.

[Zoma]

kewl to know that Obs managed to sneak in moar stuffs in Alpha stage.

[Dectilon]

I was just playing Blood Money, and it definately hit me how fun it is to go in and out and leave nothing to suggest that the deaths that just occured were anything but accidents. I hope there will be just as many tricks for sneaking as there are for combat.

 

My biggest concern currently is that you could build yourself into some kind of tank that can play Wolverine with gun-wielding thugs. I know it's an RPG, but it'd be unfortunate if you were taken out of the immersion by something stupid like that. Not that Mass Effect really tries to be realstic, but it was kind of grating that both you and the enemies could take a zillion bullets to the face.

[Bovell]

I was just playing Blood Money, and it definately hit me how fun it is to go in and out and leave nothing to suggest that the deaths that just occured were anything but accidents. I hope there will be just as many tricks for sneaking as there are for combat.

Yeah it would be nice to be able to drag bodies and then hide them or something. My hope would be that patrols don't walk by corpses and not notice anything suspicious.

[Oner]

My biggest concern currently is that you could build yourself into some kind of tank that can play Wolverine with gun-wielding thugs. I know it's an RPG, but it'd be unfortunate if you were taken out of the immersion by something stupid like that. Not that Mass Effect really tries to be realstic, but it was kind of grating that both you and the enemies could take a zillion bullets to the face.

It's not very realistic, yeah, but I'd take it any day over the DnD crap system, like 3 people swinging swords at a man sized bug for 2 minutes without hitting it.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Oner

[Mirren]

I was just playing Blood Money, and it definately hit me how fun it is to go in and out and leave nothing to suggest that the deaths that just occured were anything but accidents. I hope there will be just as many tricks for sneaking as there are for combat.

Yeah it would be nice to be able to drag bodies and then hide them or something. My hope would be that patrols don't walk by corpses and not notice anything suspicious.

 

while it's nice to have the option and can be plenty cathartic after a long day at work it'll be annoying and damaging to the game if gunplay is required not optional.

[Mirren]

My biggest concern currently is that you could build yourself into some kind of tank that can play Wolverine with gun-wielding thugs. I know it's an RPG, but it'd be unfortunate if you were taken out of the immersion by something stupid like that. Not that Mass Effect really tries to be realstic, but it was kind of grating that both you and the enemies could take a zillion bullets to the face.

It's not very realistic, yeah, but I'd take it any day over the DnD crap system, like 3 people swinging swords at a man sized bug for 2 minutes without hitting it.

 

yeah i've had trouble playing the Neverwinter games or any D&D based video game and though it may sound strange i'd attribute my trouble playing those games to Battle Chasers

[Bovell]

I was just playing Blood Money, and it definately hit me how fun it is to go in and out and leave nothing to suggest that the deaths that just occured were anything but accidents. I hope there will be just as many tricks for sneaking as there are for combat.

Yeah it would be nice to be able to drag bodies and then hide them or something. My hope would be that patrols don't walk by corpses and not notice anything suspicious.

 

while it's nice to have the option and can be plenty cathartic after a long day at work it'll be annoying and damaging to the game if gunplay is required not optional.

I was under the impression that hiding bodies was something of stealth, not gunplay.

[Mirren]

I was just playing Blood Money, and it definately hit me how fun it is to go in and out and leave nothing to suggest that the deaths that just occured were anything but accidents. I hope there will be just as many tricks for sneaking as there are for combat.

Yeah it would be nice to be able to drag bodies and then hide them or something. My hope would be that patrols don't walk by corpses and not notice anything suspicious.

 

while it's nice to have the option and can be plenty cathartic after a long day at work it'll be annoying and damaging to the game if gunplay is required not optional.

I was under the impression that hiding bodies was something of stealth, not gunplay.

 

just because my post didn't include the words stealth or hiding doesn't mean it wasn't about stealth or hiding