NFL Season 2009

[Volourn]

"Heart = overcoming all obstacles to achieve victory in the end!"

 

That's what people said about the Mannings. R00fles! And, Elway.

 

 

 

"Denver never said they did not care about him"

 

Sure, they did. that's why they tried to throw him in the trash. They're only backtracking now because they a) got caught in lies, and b) the trade fell through. You do NOT try to trade someone if you think they're good for your team. Period.

 

And, LOL, at the Pro Bowl nonsense. Like one's performance in that game means ANYTHING.

 

 

" Again no one is bigger then the NFL and no player is bigger than the team "

 

Again, this just proves that players don't owe the team any loyalty as teams aren't loyal to them. teams will use a player up, and as soon as they're unneeded they're thrown in the trash. That's NOT loyalty.

 

So, again, why should a player be loyalty to scum like that?

 

And, don't get me started on the pathetic, whiny, jelaousy, selfish, scumbag fans. Those pieces of poo are 100% worse than the teams, and players COMBINED.

 

 

"but the hissy fit he threw to get it doesn't exactly endear him to the public."

 

Whys hould Cutler care what the 'publioc' think of him? Espicially since the public changes its mind on a whim, and the mystical public can't even agree on anything with itself since opinion on various issues are ALWAYS split anyways. The public is IRRELEVANT.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Volourn

[Kelverin]

But Kelv's retort that all quarterbacks should be judged only by wins and losses and that some mythical "clutchness" is anything more than fans (encouraged by ignorant sportswriters) oversimplifying a very complex game is equally laughable.

Watch football another 10 years and then get back to me.

 

Sportswriters? Who the hell reads sports writers? You perhaps, nothing those clowns can tell me that I don't already know.

[Kelverin]

"That's what people said about the Mannings. R00fles! And, Elway."

 

Not true that have showed at every level they were winners, what

they said was they could not get to and win the big one. Elway = most comeback wins in history! Winner, winner

 

"Sure, they did. that's why they tried to throw him in the trash."

I am mind reading here they though cassel would give them a better chance to win.

(Since cutler has never shown anyone he can win)

 

"And, LOL, at the Pro Bowl nonsense. Like one's performance in that game means ANYTHING."

You brought it up, how many comeback wins does cutler have? One? in 3 years?

How many winning seasons? NONE Ever! Come on you guys are smarter than this.

 

Lol at anyone who does not think wining and losing is the most important stat!

 

 

Whats your problem with fans anyway?

[Enoch]

Winning and losing is the most important stat for measuring overall team success looking backward. For measuring an individual player, though, it's a terrible metric for reasons which should be blindingly obvious. If you switch the Colts defense with a unit from a Division III college team, and they finish the season 2-14, does that mean that Peyton Manning is any less good a quarterback?

 

I don't have anything against fans. I simply recognize that the NFL is by far the sport with the biggest gap between a fan's understanding of the game and a professional's (e.g., a coach) understanding of the game. (And sports media generally is not particularly interested in improving this when they can just get ratings by showing a guy get 'jacked up' repeatedly.) Pull a fan out of the stands to coach the Celtics or the Red Sox for a game or two, and they'd probably do a reasonably OK job. Pull a fan out of the stands to coach the Patriots, and they'd be so lost they wouldn't be able to find their own ass with two hands in their back pockets.

[Volourn]

"I am mind reading here they though cassel would give them a better chance to win.

(Since cutler has never shown anyone he can win)"

 

What has Cassell proved? That he can lead a team that was one season removed from a near perfect record, and a SB appearance to helping them miss the playoffs? Yeah. Impressive. NOT. basically same exact team just with a different QB, and they are worse. Yeah, that Cassel guy. What a difference maker. (that said, he's a good QB but he hasn't proven much yet).

 

Cutler has been stuck with a horrid D, a lacklustre running game, and a team that wants to put him in the trash. Not exactly condusive to winning no matter hwo good or not good you are.

 

 

"You brought it up"

 

i brought up the fact that he amde the PB team because making it is actually impressive because presumably the top 3 QBs of each conference make it. That's pretty darn good. The actual game is irrelevant.

 

 

 

"Not true that have showed at every level they were winners, what

they said was they could not get to and win the big one. Elway = most comeback wins in history! Winner, winner"

 

Both Mannings, and Elway were trasher priot to their SB wins. Trashed HUGE. Espicially the Mannings. Peyton was clearly the best QB yet was called a loser, and other pathetic names. The bottom line is Cutler has only played 3ish seasons. It's way too early to call him a 'loser'. Besides, a talented PB QB who makes millions is no loser. L0L the whiny crybabies who call him one are the true losers. Jealous ones at that.

[Guard Dog]

I agree with Enoch (figure that one!). While I think Cutler would look great in a Bucs uniform, his public fit demonstrates a certain lack of maturity that gives me pause. He would still be a considerable upgrade over the three QBs we have now and drafting so low in the first round makes it unlikely a better one could be had in the draft. And the Bucs are looking for a QB in the first round, no doubt there. I'd as soon give up that first rounder for a proven commdity.

[Volourn]

Asking for a trade because a team doesn't show a lack of maturty. It shows a lot of maturity than to stay in a situation that doens't make everyone happy. It's a known fact people tend to perform better when they enjoy their work. How is it mature to stay soemwhere where they don't want you? It doesn't make sense, it's not logical, and it's not mature. I know if my work didn't want me, I surely wouldn't stick around. L0L

 

The problem here is how sports professioanl sports work. Even when teams don't want you, they'll lock you up, and throw away the key. See the Giants and their handling of Burress or Falcons and Vick. Both teams have thrown these guys in the trash (for good reason in the case of Vick) yet they still keep them under contract. If you don't want someone release them. Gah.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Volourn

[I want teh kotor 3]

Asking for a trade because a team doesn't show a lack of maturty. It shows a lot of maturity than to stay in a situation that doens't make everyone happy. It's a known fact people tend to perform better when they enjoy their work. How is it mature to stay soemwhere where they don't want you? It doesn't make sense, it's not logical, and it's not mature. I know if my work didn't want me, I surely wouldn't stick around. L0L

 

The problem here is how sports professioanl sports work. Even when teams don't want you, they'll lock you up, and throw away the key. See the Giants and their handling of Burress or Falcons and Vick. Both teams have thrown these guys in the trash (for good reason in the case of Vick) yet they still keep them under contract. If you don't want someone release them. Gah.

 

Why? Vick is great. Why release him because he doesn't like dogs? Now Brady,HRomo, and T.O,on the other hand, I could see getting dropped for being whiny S.O.Bs.

[Enoch]

The problem with that logic, Volo, is that Cutler had already asked to be traded when their OC left for USC, which was before the team started discussing swapping him for Cassel.

[Guard Dog]

Volo, the lack of maturity comes from complaing about the team to the press. IMHO employment and contract matters are between the employee and employer. It should become press fodder only after the situation is settled. Having your agent talk to the media about how unhappy you are or lamenting to ESPN on how badly you have been treated IS immature and inappropriate. I remember someone on ESPN asking Bernie Kosar about his ouster from Cleveland back in the 90's. The reporter seemed to be begging him to give a soundbite. Kosar simply replied "I've been doing it right for 15 years, I'm not going to start doing it wrong now". That was class. Cutlers whining, not so much.

[Enoch]

... And the winner of the Jay Cutler bidding war is...

 

The Chicago Bears!

 

Kyle Orton, a 2009 1st & 3rd round pick, a 2010 1st round pick, for Cutler and a 2009 5th round pick.

[Guard Dog]

... And the winner of the Jay Cutler bidding war is...

 

The Chicago Bears!

 

Kyle Orton, a 2009 1st & 3rd round pick, a 2010 1st round pick, for Cutler and a 2009 5th round pick.

Not at all a bad deal for Denver.

[Volourn]

That was quick. That tells me that there wasn't much of a bidding war or Denver's been trying to move him for awhile now. Not a bad deal for both teams, though, with Denver getting 2 first rounders.

[Kelverin]

So, are the bears good enough that when they don't improve this year, Cutler will be considered over-rated? 9-7 last year, defense rated 21st (Denver 29th)

Also the bears gave up waaaaaaaaaay too much

[Volourn]

Chicago's defense is overrated, and they have no real offense to speak off. The bottom line is their QB is better than they had last season. Period.

[Kelverin]

The bottom line is their QB is better than they had last season. Period.

What if and this is a HUGE what if the donkeys finish with a better over all record?

[Volourn]

If they do, i'd wager they either have gone out and got a better QB (I never claimed that Cutler was the best QB ever), or their defense actually improves.

 

NEWSFLASH: NFL Football teams have upwards of 40 players on their squads. It's NOT all about one player.

[Kelverin]

NEWSFLASH: NFL Football teams have upwards of 40 players on their squads. It's NOT all about one player.

Don't you mean 53? Plus what 7 on the practice squad. Of course it's not, but what is the most important position on the team? What position gets the most credit or blame for winning and losing? What position is considered the leader of a team? Makes the most money?

 

Quarterback. Period. End of story. To minimize the importance of the QB to a team is well.....comical.

[Volourn]

Who minimalized? Of course, the QB is the most important position; but it's far from the only position. heck, the Baltimore Ravens wona SB largely based on D. The Bears nearly did a few seasons ago too. Other times won based largely on a strong running game. Some teams 'overachieved' based on great coaching.

 

Besides, getting the 'blame and credit' is the not same as actually being at fault or the actual reason for great play. Tons of people in this world have gotten undue credit for thinsg or unfair blame. *shrug*

 

Bottom line is Denver's D held them back last season. Not the play of the QB. the fact that Cutler made the PB despite his team's lacklustre season shows how awesome he is. It tells me that those who made the chocies did NOT blame him for his team sucking. Everyone but you apparantly knows full well Denver's downfall was their D.

 

Seriously, why are you so ignorant of the facts?

 

 

But, hey, if QB is the only worthwhile position perhaps Indy should fire their entire team but Manning, and hire about of geeks. I mean, they have Peyton Manning. They'll win anyways. Right?

[Kelverin]

How many donkey games did you watch anyway? Or you just looking at stats? Cutler was to blame for a lot of their struggles and when it counted the most against (a pathetic defense #25th) the chargers at the end of the season he tanked, choked, and his team got blown out.

 

Here's his stats for that game, not bad unless you watched the game. You can put the loss squarely on his shoulders.

J. Cutler (33-49, 316) TD 1 INT 2

 

 

The fans you love so much voted him into the PB based on stats, but if they actually watched the games like I do they would know him for what he is, an average QB with impressive stats he gained in blowout games. so far anyway.

[Enoch]

You could just as easily single out Denver's comeback wins against CLE, ATL, and KC last season as "squarely on [Cutler's] shoulders."

 

 

Oh, and to go with their new QB, the Bears have signed a new OLT: Orlando Pace.

 

The question on this one, of course, is Pace's health. He's 33 and hasn't played a full season in three years. But if he can stay on the field, 33 isn't excessively old for an offensive lineman, so it could be a decent signing.

[Volourn]

"J. Cutler (33-49, 316) TD 1 INT 2"

 

Oh, yes. He had the worst game ever. Oops, not. In fact, considering that those stats suggest he was forced to attempt a lot of passes; it shows that the D and the rushing let the team down and he was forced to pass. probably was forced to pass in coverage since the opposition probbaly realzied he was gonna pass making it that MUCH harder to do so.

 

Nope, that loss was squarely on the rushing and the defense. When a QB attempts 49 passes, it's surely a sign of a D and rushing failure. Cutler is a Pro Bowl QB. Average QBs don't make the PB. Period.

[Kelverin]

You could just as easily single out Denver's comeback wins against CLE, ATL, and KC last season as "squarely on [Cutler's] shoulders."

 

 

Oh, and to go with their new QB, the Bears have signed a new OLT: Orlando Pace.

 

The question on this one, of course, is Pace's health. He's 33 and hasn't played a full season in three years. But if he can stay on the field, 33 isn't excessively old for an offensive lineman, so it could be a decent signing.

I'll give you CLE (which I already mentioned), KC which was not a comeback but he did preform well against the 2 - 14 chefs, 31st ranked defense.

 

Atlanta the defense were the real heroes Cultler had a non-spectacular game J. Cutler 19-27 216 1 He's actually a much better QB when he is not a gunslinger. He is also very fumble/INT prone, which is surprising since in 616 attempts last year, he was sacked just 11 times.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Kelverin

[Enoch]

Well, if you're making a stat-based argument, I'll toss in my favorite player stats. According to Football Outsiders' formulae, which adjust stats for down, distance, opponent, and game situation, Cutler was the 7th-best QB in the league on a per-play basis (DVOA), and 5th-best on a total value basis (DYAR). Those numbers will certainly fall based on the difference in surrounding offensive talent between Denver and Chicago, but it's still nothing to sneeze at.

[Enoch]

The Giants have cut Plaxico Burress.