EA Closes One BioWare/Pandemic Studio

[Nightshape]

EA is pretty obsessed with it's metacritic scores at the moment.

Really? I actually think they are more concerned with how much money their game makes, seems to be all about bottom line with these folks. I think they'll let a poor metacritic score slide if the game's making money. The recent trend is that better games make more money so that's why they have become seemingly obsessed with scoring.

 

A matter of percieved quality, is one of the many reasons... I think the money side is fairly obvious, but then again I high scoring game is also likely to sell more units. Swings and roundabouts.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Nixon has the answer!

 

I honestly think BioWare has nothing to worry about. I wouldn't be surprised if an economic resession *helped* MMO sales.

Sure, times are tough here in America, but they're tough everywhere else because of us! That means we're still number one by default!

Love that part.

 

Bioware doesn't exist any more except as a division of EA. And the MMO is in trouble, because no one has taken on WoW and lived, which means Bio wasn't worth $800 million. That doesn't mean success isn't possible, but it's not terribly likely either. Pandemic of course made some really good games, but they've slipped badly lately, so their rumoured demise is probably deserved. As far as Bio, unless they get back to form with DAO, I won't even care.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I wouldn't be surprised if an economic resession *helped* MMO sales.

 

Huh?

[Llyranor]

Farming gold for profit is a pretty decent job, I guess.

[Hurlshort]

Bioware doesn't exist any more except as a division of EA.

 

Is that like when I got married, I stopped existing as an individual?

 

And the MMO is in trouble, because no one has taken on WoW and lived, which means Bio wasn't worth $800 million. That doesn't mean success isn't possible, but it's not terribly likely either.

 

So are all the other MMO's on the market dead? EQ2 and LotR Online have been very successful in the supposed shadow of WoW. Given that the game is years away from release, I'd say it's a bit early to write an obituary.

 

Pandemic of course made some really good games, but they've slipped badly lately, so their rumoured demise is probably deserved. As far as Bio, unless they get back to form with DAO, I won't even care.

 

There you go, one reasonable comment followed by an unreasonable one. Pandemic hasn't done well with its last two releases and that's why they are facing cuts. But Bioware hasn't had any bad releases lately. ME sold very well. They will face some economic hardships, like everybody in the entire world right now, but that has little to do with EA. It doesn't matter that you think they are not "on form", it only matter that they are meeting sales goals.

[Morgoth]

Pandemic never really made any good games in the first place, but that's prolly not the answer to their demise. Specifically the Brisbane studio blew it. They didn't manage to get their Dark Knight game released, and Mercenaries 2 didn't sell well either, I heard. And what about that Sabotage game? Still haven't heard anything about that for eons. That doesn't speak for a good portfolio record....unlike Bioware, whose games keep getting better critically and sales number wise. Li vivu Bioware!

[Wrath of Dagon]

I don't think ME did near as well as expected. They probably broke even, but that's about it. Compare their numbers to Assassin's Creed, which came out at the same time, AC probably did at least twice the business. Also Bio didn't get married, they got bought. They don't exist as a legal entity.

[Morgoth]

I don't think ME did near as well as expected. They probably broke even, but that's about it. Compare their numbers to Assassin's Creed, which came out at the same time, AC probably did at least twice the business. Also Bio didn't get married, they got bought. They don't exist as a legal entity.

ME sold 2,5 million units on the 360 alone. Add the PC sales, and you have 3 million. Now don't tell me those aren't good numbers.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Where did you get those numbers? And no, 2 million is about break even, depending on how much the game cost to make.

 

Edit: Pandemic made Full Spectrum Warrior, which was very good. Destroy all Humans and Mercenaries are supposed to be good too, but I haven't played them.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Nightshape]

Did ME cost 40 million+ dollars to make?

Edited January 15, 2009 by Nightshape

[Morgoth]

Where did you get those numbers? And no, 2 million is about break even, depending on how much the game cost to make.

 

Edit: Pandemic made Full Spectrum Warrior, which was very good. Destroy all Humans and Mercenaries are supposed to be good too, but I haven't played them.

Some Microsoft dude mentioned it in an interview not too long ago...I'm not digging that link up though. The PC numbers are only guessed, but I think a few hundred thousands it should be.

 

Where do you get the idea that 2 million is breaking point? Do you even know how much ME cost to develop?

Edited January 15, 2009 by Morgoth

[Wrath of Dagon]

You have a team of over 100 working for over 3 years, you're looking at tens of millions. And only a small percentage of game sales go to the developer, so 2 million is a rough guess for a AAA game.

 

Edit: OK, I'll take your word for 2.5 million, but I noticed the price was cut pretty quickly after release, so a lot of those probably weren't even at full price.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Morgoth]

You have a team of over 100 working for over 3 years, you're looking at tens of millions. And only a small percentage of game sales go to the developer, so 2 million is a rough guess for a AAA game.

You don't have 100 people working for 3 years on that game.

 

Mass Effect actually took 4 years, as I exactly remember that they started thinking/planning about it when Kotor Xbox shipped. You usually start with 1 guy, or 5. Later the team gets ramped up and so on, until you reach over 100 for a period of severel months. Then it starts to decline again. But you'll never need 100 people constantly on the project. That's why Bio (and every well managed company) has an internal turn-around cycle, so that specific people can always be applied for the right job.

 

And I don't exactly know how large the profit margins for Bioware were. They own the property and took a lot risk on their own chest, so I suppose they got a good deal with MS that should serve Bio very well.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Morgoth

[Rhomal]

RPGs would not be doomed if Bioware closed. The remnants can be split among Obsidian and Bethesda. Of course I would pay good money to see Chris Avellone and J.E. Sawyer versus David Gaider and Stanley Woo in a tag team no holds barred wrestling match.

 

First point totally agree, the skilled folks would simply find homes elsewhere to continue their craft.

 

Second point, You sir have regained some of my respect...

 

Jim Ross: MCA delivers a massive clothesline to the Woo-miester.. Woo staggers to the ropes

The King: Look at JE on the apron JR, itching for a tag, hes ready to lay some smack down on Gaider the way he's looking at him!

[Morgoth]

Edit: OK, I'll take your word for 2.5 million, but I noticed the price was cut pretty quickly after release, so a lot of those probably weren't even at full price.

I remember that MS announced in Dezember 2007 that ME sold 1,6 million units worldwide, but by now it's about 2,5 million units. So yeah, probably not all units were sold for full price. But I still think both MS and Bioware were very pleased with the performance, otherwise we wouldn't see the trilogy get done.

[Morgoth]

RPGs would not be doomed if Bioware closed. The remnants can be split among Obsidian and Bethesda. Of course I would pay good money to see Chris Avellone and J.E. Sawyer versus David Gaider and Stanley Woo in a tag team no holds barred wrestling match.

 

First point totally agree, the skilled folks would simply find homes elsewhere to continue their craft.

 

Second point, You sir have regained some of my respect...

 

Jim Ross: MCA delivers a massive clothesline to the Woo-miester.. Woo staggers to the ropes

The King: Look at JE on the apron JR, itching for a tag, hes ready to lay some smack down on Gaider the way he's looking at him!

More likely, Obsidian will fold if they keep releasing outdated NWN2 expansions and then their devs get picked up by Bioware. If they like to live in Edmonton, that is.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Morgoth

[Rhomal]

'outdated'? Ermm NWN2 still looks VERY good and the new engine has aged quite well past few years.

 

If you mean you simply do not like the plot of the XP's well that's a matter of taste, but if atari is ready to fund XP #3 clearly the sales numbers are there and while you are entitled to your opinion you are in the minority.

 

While I doubt obsid is in anywhere near the brink of closing if what you say did come to pass that would be awkward on a few levels.. one specifically comes to mind...

 

(at the entrance to Bioware new ex-obsid devs come to interview)

Ferret: Hi guys...

Edited January 15, 2009 by Rhomal

[Morgoth]

'outdated'? Ermm NWN2 still looks VERY good and the new engine has aged quite well past few years.

 

If you mean you simply do not like the plot of the XP's well that's a matter of taste, but if atari is ready to fund XP #3 clearly the sales numbers are there and while you are entitled to your opinion you are in the minority.

Oh come on, I'm not getting into this mud fight again.

 

Obsidian? "Who is that?" the majority might wonder. Perhaps they can start talking in the lime light like Bioware when they finally get some real games (AP, Aliens) released.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Morgoth

[Rhomal]

'outdated'? Ermm NWN2 still looks VERY good and the new engine has aged quite well past few years.

 

If you mean you simply do not like the plot of the XP's well that's a matter of taste, but if atari is ready to fund XP #3 clearly the sales numbers are there and while you are entitled to your opinion you are in the minority.

Oh come on, I'm not getting into this mud fight again.

 

 

That's good for you and your ego.

[Mamoulian War]

I don't think ME did near as well as expected. They probably broke even, but that's about it. Compare their numbers to Assassin's Creed, which came out at the same time, AC probably did at least twice the business. Also Bio didn't get married, they got bought. They don't exist as a legal entity.

ME sold 2,5 million units on the 360 alone. Add the PC sales, and you have 3 million. Now don't tell me those aren't good numbers.

 

you do know that EA has not seen a single dime from the Xbox release? so if they even sold 500k (which i realy doubt) ME PC that is for EA surely disapointing release...

Edited January 15, 2009 by Mamoulian War

[Morgoth]

I don't think ME did near as well as expected. They probably broke even, but that's about it. Compare their numbers to Assassin's Creed, which came out at the same time, AC probably did at least twice the business. Also Bio didn't get married, they got bought. They don't exist as a legal entity.

ME sold 2,5 million units on the 360 alone. Add the PC sales, and you have 3 million. Now don't tell me those aren't good numbers.

 

you do know that EA has not seen a single dime from the Xbox release? so if they even sold 500k (which i realy doubt) ME PC that is for EA surely disapointing release...

Boy, you really have some nerve.

 

ME (PC) was the deal for EA! Just imagine, they only had to spend money for the conversion!

[Mamoulian War]

I don't think ME did near as well as expected. They probably broke even, but that's about it. Compare their numbers to Assassin's Creed, which came out at the same time, AC probably did at least twice the business. Also Bio didn't get married, they got bought. They don't exist as a legal entity.

ME sold 2,5 million units on the 360 alone. Add the PC sales, and you have 3 million. Now don't tell me those aren't good numbers.

 

you do know that EA has not seen a single dime from the Xbox release? so if they even sold 500k (which i realy doubt) ME PC that is for EA surely disapointing release...

Boy, you really have some nerve.

 

ME (PC) was the deal for EA! Just imagine, they only had to spend money for the conversion!

 

And SecuRom and activation servers + their maintenance + staff who must solve billions of problems with DRM...

[Morgoth]

I don't think ME did near as well as expected. They probably broke even, but that's about it. Compare their numbers to Assassin's Creed, which came out at the same time, AC probably did at least twice the business. Also Bio didn't get married, they got bought. They don't exist as a legal entity.

ME sold 2,5 million units on the 360 alone. Add the PC sales, and you have 3 million. Now don't tell me those aren't good numbers.

 

you do know that EA has not seen a single dime from the Xbox release? so if they even sold 500k (which i realy doubt) ME PC that is for EA surely disapointing release...

Boy, you really have some nerve.

 

ME (PC) was the deal for EA! Just imagine, they only had to spend money for the conversion!

 

And SecuRom and activation servers + their maintenance + staff who must solve billions of problems with DRM...

Standard procedure. That's the service that comes with publishers. You behave like you need 200000000 gazillion units sold to have one technical guy getting paid who is doing the SecuROM preperations/maintainence.

[Mamoulian War]

If you realy think that the securom deal was less than few millions you are pretty naive and you can bet EA expected at least double if not triple the sales on PC

Edited January 15, 2009 by Mamoulian War

[newc0253]

reading this thread is like business management for the insane.