DRM Thread

[Hell Kitty]

Another problem is if you don't have a credit card and can't buy stuff online. EA obviously didn't think this through.

[alanschu]

Roflcopter.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Another problem is if you don't have a credit card and can't buy stuff online. EA obviously didn't think this through.

 

Anyone who doesn't have a check card nowadays aren't living in the 21st century and has more problems than just trying to get a game to work.

[Purkake]

But what if you don't have hands? It's damn near impossible to type those credit card numbers in with a pen in your mouth. Everything is so hard these days!

[Deadly_Nightshade]

...but otherwise the only DRM is apparently a DVD check.

 

So you do not have to tie your game to the EA Store?

Anyways, it, Sims 3, might have SecuROM.

[Magister Lajciak]

Another problem is if you don't have a credit card and can't buy stuff online. EA obviously didn't think this through.

 

Anyone who doesn't have a check card nowadays aren't living in the 21st century and has more problems than just trying to get a game to work.

 

I don't agree. This may be the case in North America, but plenty of people in my country do not have credit cards. Heck, I am currently in the U.S. and I too don't have a credit card - I just see no need to get one.

[Magister Lajciak]

well Sim3's drm scheme is that in order to get all the effects you have to DL the info from them, and thus it's not all contained on the disk given to you.

 

You can purchase additional items (furniture, clothing, hairstyle etc) from the online store, which requires you register your game, but otherwise the only DRM is apparently a DVD check.

 

This sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

 

It seems pretty reasonable to me too.

[Hell Kitty]

...but otherwise the only DRM is apparently a DVD check.

 

So you do not have to tie your game to the EA Store?

 

That's right.

 

Anyways, it, Sims 3, might have SecuROM.

 

Which, as that message points out, is just a disc check.

[alanschu]

Ah, but SecuROM anything is bad now, right?

[Mamoulian War]

Ah, but SecuROM anything is bad now, right?

 

If it works only in Ring 0, it's bad...

 

For me it is not bad, because i use Acronis for creating image of my PC's OS before i install any DRMed game... after i uninstall it i restore the image to the state before...

 

If you install any type of programs which works in Ring 0 and dont reinstall your PC at least once in a year and have static IP address, you can consider yourself lucky if you dont get your PC hi-jacked few times

[alanschu]

I don't have a static IP address.

 

 

Having said that, it's a pretty bold claim that installing SecuROM that does have ring 0 access will result in PC hijacking were I to have a static IP address.

[Mamoulian War]

I don't have a static IP address.

 

 

Having said that, it's a pretty bold claim that installing SecuROM that does have ring 0 access will not result in PC hijacking were I to have a static IP address.

 

fixed...

 

see it can be said both ways...

 

and both are 100% accurate...

[skuld1]

I don't have a static IP address.

 

 

Having said that, it's a pretty bold claim that installing SecuROM that does have ring 0 access will result in PC hijacking were I to have a static IP address.

 

The anti-DRM crowd is full of bold claims but extremely light on actual studies, papers, etc.

 

For instance the claim that Starforce burns up drives would be fairly easy to demonstrate: Buy 200 identical DVD drives: have 100 of them running starforce protected games non-stop and have 100 running non-starforce games non-stop... there should be a statistically significant difference in drive life if starforce does burn up drives as claimed. Apparently, every single anti-DRM person in the world is poor and cannot afford to bankroll such a study... I just have to listen to anecdotal stories on how Starforce ruined someone's drive

 

edit: I am in no way endorsing Starforce... I think it's a crappy form of DRM. But in the same way I don't assume a defendant with a crappy background is guilty of murder I don't assume these hardware destruction stories are true because of the crappiness of their DRM scheme. Show the proof

Edited June 4, 2009 by skuld1

[Mamoulian War]

I don't have a static IP address.

 

 

Having said that, it's a pretty bold claim that installing SecuROM that does have ring 0 access will result in PC hijacking were I to have a static IP address.

 

The anti-DRM crowd is full of bold claims but extremely light on actual studies, papers, etc.

 

For instance the claim that Starforce burns up drives would be fairly easy to demonstrate: Buy 200 identical DVD drives: have 100 of them running starforce protected games non-stop and have 100 running non-starforce games non-stop... there should be a statistically significant difference in drive life if starforce does burn up drives as claimed. Apparently, every single anti-DRM person in the world is poor and cannot afford to bankroll such a study... I just have to listen to anecdotal stories on how Starforce ruined someone's drive

 

edit: I am in no way endorsing Starforce... I think it's a crappy form of DRM. But in the same way I don't assume a defendant with a crappy background is guilty of murder I don't assume these hardware destruction stories are true because of the crappiness of their DRM scheme. Show the proof

 

The fact, that every single publisher (except some russians) left StarForce behind and do not want to touch it again, is for me proof good enough

Edited June 4, 2009 by Mamoulian War

[alanschu]

I don't have a static IP address.

 

 

Having said that, it's a pretty bold claim that installing SecuROM that does have ring 0 access will not result in PC hijacking were I to have a static IP address.

 

fixed...

 

see it can be said both ways...

 

and both are 100% accurate...

 

 

No, it can't be said both ways.

 

You stated that allowing software to install in ring 0 I'd be lucky to not have my computer hijacked. You made the claim, and hence, the burden of proof is on you that SecuROM will allow people to hijack my computer, preferably within a year.

 

To refresh your memory, here's what you said: "If you install any type of programs which works in Ring 0 and dont reinstall your PC at least once in a year and have static IP address, you can consider yourself lucky if you dont get your PC hi-jacked few times"

 

 

I know people such as yourself love to try to turn things around like you just did, but it's a fallacy and exceptionally poor scientific method. You'd be laughed out of research for suggesting your reasoning, because it's quite frankly grasping at straws.

 

 

So, buckle down and put your money where your mouth is. You stated that if I install programs that work in ring zero and don't reformat my computer at least once a year, I'm lucky that I don't get hijacked. You surely have some sort of proof to substantiate your claim, and none of this bull**** of turning stuff around. But somehow I have a feeling that's all you got, which is why people don't take the crusades you go on seriously.

 

 

To reiterate: For your claim, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU.

 

 

I'm not going to buy any of this bull**** pseudoscience that says "well, you don't know either" [with lame ass 'fixed' added to boot]. You might as well be a religious evangelist telling me to believe in God because while he can't prove he does exist, I can't prove that he doesn't. It's a bull**** argument used by people that have no argument. Do you not have a legitimate argument?

Edited June 5, 2009 by alanschu

[alanschu]

The fact, that every single publisher (except some russians) left StarForce behind and do not want to touch it again, is for me proof good enough

 

 

And this is why you fail. Publishers dropped it because it had negative perception associated with it. Pure and simple. Ironically, the bulk of the ****storm started when Chaos Theory proved to be uncrackable for over a year.

Edited June 5, 2009 by alanschu

[alanschu]

edit: I am in no way endorsing Starforce... I think it's a crappy form of DRM. But in the same way I don't assume a defendant with a crappy background is guilty of murder I don't assume these hardware destruction stories are true because of the crappiness of their DRM scheme. Show the proof

 

 

The thing that really got me was when I learned that much of the vitriol for Starforce had a positive correlation with the length of time it took to crack Chaos Theory.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

The thing that really got me was when I learned that much of the vitriol for Starforce had a positive correlation with the length of time it took to crack Chaos Theory.

 

And not the underhanded business tactics (and what tactics they were are) or the alleged damage it was causing? As for Chaos Theory, it was a fluke – many StarForce protected products have been cracked since then, it was just a case of the game having an odd, now obsolete, version of the DRM.

[Mamoulian War]

I don't have a static IP address.

 

 

Having said that, it's a pretty bold claim that installing SecuROM that does have ring 0 access will not result in PC hijacking were I to have a static IP address.

 

fixed...

 

see it can be said both ways...

 

and both are 100% accurate...

 

 

No, it can't be said both ways.

 

You stated that allowing software to install in ring 0 I'd be lucky to not have my computer hijacked. You made the claim, and hence, the burden of proof is on you that SecuROM will allow people to hijack my computer, preferably within a year.

 

To refresh your memory, here's what you said: "If you install any type of programs which works in Ring 0 and dont reinstall your PC at least once in a year and have static IP address, you can consider yourself lucky if you dont get your PC hi-jacked few times"

 

 

I know people such as yourself love to try to turn things around like you just did, but it's a fallacy and exceptionally poor scientific method. You'd be laughed out of research for suggesting your reasoning, because it's quite frankly grasping at straws.

 

 

So, buckle down and put your money where your mouth is. You stated that if I install programs that work in ring zero and don't reformat my computer at least once a year, I'm lucky that I don't get hijacked. You surely have some sort of proof to substantiate your claim, and none of this bull**** of turning stuff around. But somehow I have a feeling that's all you got, which is why people don't take the crusades you go on seriously.

 

 

To reiterate: For your claim, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU.

 

 

I'm not going to buy any of this bull**** pseudoscience that says "well, you don't know either" [with lame ass 'fixed' added to boot]. You might as well be a religious evangelist telling me to believe in God because while he can't prove he does exist, I can't prove that he doesn't. It's a bull**** argument used by people that have no argument. Do you not have a legitimate argument?

 

blah blah blah

 

Why should i be obliged to proof you anything? Proof is to be made in the courts in the people vs. EA (spore securom lawsuits)... i am not part of them i dont care about you trying to spin anything i say...

 

As i said both things said are 100% correct, unless you convince be that not a single PC with static IP, containing software working in ring 0, could not be hijacked...

 

And bringing God into technical question is absolutely ridiculous...

 

EDIT: Saying that companies abandoned StarForce because of bad publicity is total bull**** aswell, if you have not noticed SecuROM has much worse publicity than Starforce ever had... And the companies are still supporting SecuROM...

 

EDIT2: Not to say, that believeing company, which was already once found guilty in distribution of their self-made Rootkit on music CDs and saying it does nothing, is crazy aswell... but what i can say about crazyness in the world, where many people are still buying their 5th Xbox after their 4 previous got RRoD or E74...

Edited June 5, 2009 by Mamoulian War

[Mamoulian War]

And just to show people, your lol spinning of my words:

 

My post:

 

If you install any type of programs which works in Ring 0 and dont reinstall your PC at least once in a year and have static IP address, you can consider yourself lucky if you dont get your PC hi-jacked few times

 

your post

 

 

Having said that, it's a pretty bold claim that installing SecuROM that does have ring 0 access will result in PC hijacking were I to have a static IP address.

 

Where did i said here, that by installing SecuROM will result in HiJacking your PC?

 

Let me rephrase my 1st qute to you, because you love to spin ****: If you at least dont reformat your PC once a year, and dont do anything else to protect your PC... ANY (once again repeating for you, because you seem to be seeing only stuff you want to see) ANY program which is installed in ring 0 (doesn't matter if it is Windows, Linux, OS2)... which works above any administrative priviledges, might lead into serious security risks, which MIGHT lead into hijacking the PC...

 

That can happen if the company providing the ring 0 applications, does not give a flying **** about the security of their product, or the product is designed to abuse that fact by default...

 

If SecuROM, is secure enough or not to not pose any security vulnerabilities to our systems, will be decided by the judge in the class action lawsuit against EA... untill then everything you say is same bull**** to me, as everything i say, is bull**** to you...

Edited June 5, 2009 by Mamoulian War

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Here's an example of a Ring 0 security risk directly related to DRM instillation.

[skuld1]

were are) or the alleged damage it was causing?

 

And yet AFAIK after all these years no one can run a simple test like the one I outlined earlier in the thread to prove that Starforce burns up drives. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if such a test was run but the results were never released as the desired result was not attained...

[Mamoulian War]

were are) or the alleged damage it was causing?

 

And yet AFAIK after all these years no one can run a simple test like the one I outlined earlier in the thread to prove that Starforce burns up drives. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if such a test was run but the results were never released as the desired result was not attained...

 

Or the exact results could be attained only through reverse engineering (as you might know, reverse engineering of copyrighted IP is a crime in most of the "civilised" countries) or any other means which could infringe on the copyright of the owner of the Starforce IP, so such tests could be ordered only by the court and afaik no order for such a test was issued...

 

I bet we would see some evidence like this at people vs Ubisoft lawsuit, which was issued in 2007 for 5 million $, but UbiSoft rather settled the lawsuit and abandoned Starforce...

Edited June 6, 2009 by Mamoulian War

[Mamoulian War]

One of the best comments about piracy, made by Brazilian Game developer (it's a little bit dated, but it hits nail on the head!!!)

 

[quote name='"H

[alanschu]

Or the exact results could be attained only through reverse engineering (as you might know, reverse engineering of copyrighted IP is a crime in most of the "civilised" countries) or any other means which could infringe on the copyright of the owner of the Starforce IP, so such tests could be ordered only by the court and afaik no order for such a test was issued...

 

I bet we would see some evidence like this at people vs Ubisoft lawsuit, which was issued in 2007 for 5 million $, but UbiSoft rather settled the lawsuit and abandoned Starforce...

 

 

You wouldn't need to reverse engineer StarForce to see if StarForce was correlated to destroying discs. All you'd need is a lot of CD/DVD drives.

 

 

 

As for your most recent post, I always find it hard to sympathize with those that pirate, and most specifically, those that make lots and lots of money off someone else's work, because of a non-essential product like a video game.

 

I used to make all those excuses too, but the other side of the coin is that while growing up, games I couldn't get through software piracy were games that I would ask for gifts for Christmas and birthdays. So while I might not have been able to afford a lot of games when I was younger, I still found myself with a rather large collection of legitimate console video games, and those developers were fairly remunerated for their hard work.

 

Like your Brazilian friend, when I got into software development it was a major malfunction for me to even consider continuing to pirate software, so I stopped. If it's a game that I'm not confident I'll get my money's worth out of, I simply don't play it, or wait for the price to go down. Pirating a game because it has a DRM on it, or because it's made by Electronic Arts, is simply a selfish behaviour. In fact, I find it ironic that people pirate games from companies that they hate.

 

 

 

EDIT: I forgot about this thread. I see some fun responses I missed.

Edited August 18, 2009 by alanschu