US Presidential Elections 3

[Aristes]

What do you want to know, Meshugger? I have read Franken in his own words and I find him divisive and contemptible. Specifics? That's like asking for a liberal to say what they have against Rush Limbaugh, with whom Franken shares much in common, only on the liberal side. To cite any one particular sentence would trivialize the characteristics I find so loathsome in him. There is no one thing. He has a body of work that conveys a style and demeanor I would abhor in any candidate. He is no less vitriolic, bombastic, or offensive than Ann Coulter. Wait, don't you think Ann Coulter is funny?

 

I'm a Republican and, judging by these parts, a conservative, so it's not unnatural that folks would assume I dislike the guy because he's liberal. However, at the end of the day, I don't tend to hate folks for being a different party, and I don't mean Democrats. We've got quite a few political parties in the US. Sure, the mainstream doesn't advance parties other than the big two, but the other parties are out there. Just go to you local college campus and you're likely to meet folks from a variety of different parties, some of them political.

 

I dislike Obama's politics, but I've always admired the fact that he does tend to have a certain felicity of words that aspires to transcend political backbiting. Sure, he had to get down and dirty to win the campaign, but he didn't start there and his rhetoric after the race has become more elevated once again. Don't get me wrong, I'm too jaded to believe that he's anything other than a career politician, but I can still appreciate the fact that he's trying to do what he thinks is best for the country, just like most other presidential candidates, even Nixon.

 

Al Franken? He didn't turn nasty to try to win an election. He started there. He's there right now. He'll end there. He's been interested more in promoting himself than his political cause. Hell, he's got a lot of the same characteristics as Michael Moore, only Franken's not nearly as funny and every bit as crass.

 

So, the bottom line? I just don't like the guy.

[Meshugger]

What do you want to know, Meshugger? I have read Franken in his own words and I find him divisive and contemptible. Specifics? That's like asking for a liberal to say what they have against Rush Limbaugh, with whom Franken shares much in common, only on the liberal side. To cite any one particular sentence would trivialize the characteristics I find so loathsome in him. There is no one thing. He has a body of work that conveys a style and demeanor I would abhor in any candidate. He is no less vitriolic, bombastic, or offensive than Ann Coulter. Wait, don't you think Ann Coulter is funny?

 

I'm a Republican and, judging by these parts, a conservative, so it's not unnatural that folks would assume I dislike the guy because he's liberal. However, at the end of the day, I don't tend to hate folks for being a different party, and I don't mean Democrats. We've got quite a few political parties in the US. Sure, the mainstream doesn't advance parties other than the big two, but the other parties are out there. Just go to you local college campus and you're likely to meet folks from a variety of different parties, some of them political.

 

I dislike Obama's politics, but I've always admired the fact that he does tend to have a certain felicity of words that aspires to transcend political backbiting. Sure, he had to get down and dirty to win the campaign, but he didn't start there and his rhetoric after the race has become more elevated once again. Don't get me wrong, I'm too jaded to believe that he's anything other than a career politician, but I can still appreciate the fact that he's trying to do what he thinks is best for the country, just like most other presidential candidates, even Nixon.

 

Al Franken? He didn't turn nasty to try to win an election. He started there. He's there right now. He'll end there. He's been interested more in promoting himself than his political cause. Hell, he's got a lot of the same characteristics as Michael Moore, only Franken's not nearly as funny and every bit as crass.

 

So, the bottom line? I just don't like the guy.

 

Now i understand why that there's a dislike for him on the republican side. It is understandable there's recentment against someone who lives by taking potshots on the fallacies of the other side of politics, instead of promoting ones own.

 

Thank you

 

P.S. I really dislike Coulter and Limbaugh. Moore is in the same league, but not as vile as the previous two. Also, the guy has a habit on tapping onto ones altruism, a softspot for many.

[taks]

it's got nothing to do with taking potshots at the other sides' fallacies, i do that as well, to all sides. franken is just plain hateful.

 

taks

Edited December 3, 2008 by taks

[Humodour]

Coulter and Limbaugh are fairly bat**** and I'm frankly (ehe) surprised to see Aristes try and tie Franken to them.

[taks]

Nah, McCain met Obama after the election and talked to him about what he would work with the Democrats on.

yes, but immaterial to my larger point. when it comes down to it, he'll be forced to side with the republicans on issues that actually matter. the few that you mention he's always been in favor of, so it is no surprise. the immigration one is actually necessary anyway, the corruption one is, well, solvable in only one way, and healthcare we simply can't afford (nor should we try, but that's not the point).

 

meshugger: franken was on SNL back in the early days with, IIRC, "the franken and davis show" or something like that. quite frankly, i didn't find him funny then.

 

taks

 

edit: i should add, healthcare does not need reform in the US. it is still probably the best in the world or close to it. health insurance is really what is meant when they talk about "reform." of course, there's only one way to solve that problem, too, but actually implementing what we say we implement isn't politically correct.

Edited December 3, 2008 by taks

[Humodour]

Healthcare in America really isn't that spectacular. It's about equal to that of Cuba. That ought to really rile you. Although admittedly Cuba has excellent healthcare - about the only thing it does well.

 

What needs to be reformed is the socioeconomic gaps present in America's health insurance.

[Hurlshort]

Healthcare is uneven in America. You can still get some of the best care in the world here. But it comes down to money.

[taks]

Healthcare in America really isn't that spectacular. It's about equal to that of Cuba. That ought to really rile you. Although admittedly Cuba has excellent healthcare - about the only thing it does well.

and you know this how sitting in australia? there's a reason people come from around the world to get serviced here in the US.

 

What needs to be reformed is the socioeconomic gaps present in America's health insurance.

no, what needs to be reformed is the government needs to get out of trying to control the health costs with all of these ridiculous regulations and allow the free-market to actually work the way it always works, which will ultimately reduce health care costs for everyone, thus dropping the cost of insurance as well. we also need to get out of this notion that every little thing needs to be "covered" by someone else and realize that sometimes you simply have to pay.

 

and, btw, for most, health insurance is NOT expensive, contrary to popular opinion. it's the people with various exclusionary diseases (such as diabetes, which my wife has), that cannot afford insurance.

 

taks

[Trenitay]

Why do you think no one in Australia can know anything about America? Im not sure but I think Australia has internet. Cant they go and do research?

[taks]

Why do you think no one in Australia can know anything about America? Im not sure but I think Australia has internet. Cant they go and do research?

yeah, you can read the internet and make valid judgements about the quality of healthcare in the US, particularly compared to a place like cuba (hint: michael moore's film was as much propaganda as the information cuba releases on the subject).

 

tell me, do you take yourself seriously?

 

taks

[Aristes]

Actually, in terms of outright egregious comments, I think Rush Limbaugh and Al Franken are about par. Michael Moore and Ann Coulter are a step beyond. So, why do I not have the same animosity for Michael Moore as for Al Franken? Al Franken just rubs me the wrong way. Politically speaking, he's really no better or worse than any number of politicians. Personally, I dislike what I've seen of him, and that's taking him at his own word. Meshugger asked why I dislike the guy, and I think I've conveyed it pretty well. For all I know, I'd get along with him brilliantly in person. I tend to get along with most folks I meet. I will say from experience, however, that I take a pretty dim view of folks who are stridently political in real life also. As long as they don't cram their political opinions down my throat, I don't care that we always agree. It's a fact of life that folks have different views and you have to patient enough to let folks express those views every once in a while.

 

Really, though, Rush Limbaugh isn't all that bad. He's mostly a big gasbag who promotes himself. He's an entertainer, not a politician. I've never voluntarily listened to Limbaugh, unless you count voluntarily riding in a friend's car while he/she listened. Sure, he's over the top sometimes, but so is Al Franken. In fact, it seems perfectly reasonable to establish a sort of political parity between Al Franken and Rush Limbaugh. Now, Coulter is probably a farther out than Franken, and I suppose that I would hate Ann Coulter if I were a liberal. As it is, I simply don't like Coulter. She's the conservative attack dog, but I favor clear headed discussions and none of the four in question (Franken, Limbaugh, Coulter, or Moore) are particularly clear headed. Still, I'm only human and I'm likely to hold more real animosity for the nasty folks on the other side than I am the nasty people on my own. That doesn't mean I can't recognize nasty behavior on either side and despise it in principle.

 

We're adults. Politics is Politics. I'm not going to go crazy over Franken. I just find him personally disgusting and I hope he loses. We can't always get what we want.

[SteveThaiBinh]

...allow the free-market to actually work the way it always works, which will ultimately reduce health care costs for everyone

I haven't read the thread for a while, so forgive me if you've answered this already, but how exactly will the operation of the free market lead to reduced health care costs? Please lead me through the process.

and, btw, for most, health insurance is NOT expensive, contrary to popular opinion. it's the people with various exclusionary diseases (such as diabetes, which my wife has), that cannot afford insurance.

And again, how will the operation of the free market enable people such as your wife to get health insurance, or will she get health care without insurance?

[taks]

I haven't read the thread for a while, so forgive me if you've answered this already, but how exactly will the operation of the free market lead to reduced health care costs? Please lead me through the process.

are you being daft on purpose or do you really not understand capitalism?

 

And again, how will the operation of the free market enable people such as your wife to get health insurance, or will she get health care without insurance?

now you're arguing a strawman. i never said it would.

 

what it will do is reduce the cost of health care in general, allowing other alternatives.

 

so, exactly what are they teaching you people in school? "yay socialism"? you've all been blinded by the media on this issue for so long you think their socialist mantra is true. do yourselves a favor: read ludwig von mises, or if you'd like something a bit more palatable, milton friedman.

 

taks

[SteveThaiBinh]

I'm not interested in discussing with you if you're going to take that tone.

[Meshugger]

Nobel Peace price winner points fingers to Washington

 

I hope that the new President of the United States, who will be sworn in next month, will give high priority to the Middle East conflict during his first year in office.

 

So, what will Obama do again?

[Humodour]

Well Turkey will pave roads and America will build bridges.

[Guard Dog]

While we are picking up the pieces of 2016 I thought it would be entertaining to see how we reacted to 2008. There is some good stuff here. Check out what I wrote in post #12, Did I call that or what!

[Hurlshort]

I miss the heck out of taks.  He always had a decent beer to recommend.  

[Meshugger]

Haha, i have become old.

[Guard Dog]

I read a few of my posts from 8 years ago. It sounds just like something I've posted recently. You have to admit, i am consistent.

[Blarghagh]

This was a fun trip in history until I came across posts by Hades.

[Guard Dog]

This was a fun trip in history until I came across posts by Hades.

And Kelverin. And I saw one from Tarna. We've lost some good guys through the years.